Specs changes...

[FatBird19]

REDCODE oboard use of the S35 frame
I don't know how hard it is to scale 2540p to 4k in camera but I'd really like to have the option of using REDCODE 4k from the S35 sensor. Reason being simply to reduce the crop factor on my lenses.
If I recall correctly, the 35mm frame(minus the widescreen crop) is just slightly smaller than the DX format sensor on the Nikon cameras(23.6 as opposed to 22.2 on the RED), and the Nikon has a crop factor of x1.5. The crop factor for a Nikon lens on the RED for the 35mm frame is ~1.6. The crop factor for the same lens over the S35 frame is 1.45.
Any time I can work with less of a crop factor on a lens, I'll take it. When I buy my Nikon set, I'm going to have to use a 35mm prime if I want a 50mm image. More precisely, for the S35 frame I'll have a 50.75mm lens and for the 35mm frame I'll have a 56mm lens.

It would be great to have 2540p scalable for onboard 4k REDCODE recording just so that I can avoid this additional crop factor, and I understand that this camera was built for S35 lenses and using photography lenses is just a bonus. I believe though that this same concern applies to PL mount film lenses; preserving the most minimum crop factor possible for shooting is important for me so that I'll have more creative options, seeing that I'll be working with an external deck very minimally and I think that the 2540p resolution is a bit excessive for my needs.

I said this earlier without realizing that all of the RAW formats are not debayered and as such they cannot be resized.
So I've updated my chart then to put the 1080p format as an option for the S35 sensor size instead of 4k RAW which would have been impossible.
I don't know if the RED would be capable processorwise of taking 2540p images, debayering it, downconverting it to 1080p and then REDCODING it all live while recording, but it would be great because it would give users access to the largest sensor frame available without being tethered to a deck.

alright, I'm done...:zombie_smiley:

 

[Emanuel]

Exactly. We'll be waiting for an answer coming from the RED team.

 

[mike the beginner]

I've used good quality wide converter lenses on the front of my lenses for years now. It adds a little weight on the front of the rig, which you need to compensate for in the weight & balance of the rig, usually by counterbalancing with weight on the back (battery/drive), and sliding the camera back on the shoulder brace or sliding the quickmount plate backward in tripod configurations.

Gibby

Thanks Steve.

I have already written down a 2x converter mainly for use with the red 300 mm prime and the odd use with the red zoom (when it ships).


I just never realised that you could get a wide-angle converter:huh:

Must get a look at what’s available and the technical drawbacks etc.



Steve you do realise that you might well have saved me a lot of money

Your guidance help and knowledge is most appreciated:dankk2:

Michael

 

[Emanuel]

I second that. Steve knows he's gold!

Emanuel

 

[Gibby]

Thanks for the kind words Mike and Emanuel. I'm always glad to mentor. Others have helped me throughout my career, so I'm just passing the karma onward...

 

[Gordon Prince]

FatBird, on this:

Is it me? Or it doesn't make sense...

2k RGB could be scaled from the full resolution of the sensor: 11.5 megapixels.

2k RAW doesn't. It's just less than 2.4 megapixels... A small part of the sensor. If 2k RAW can't be scaled only cropped.

Then, is this Red a 24, 25 or 30fps 4k camera from a 9.4 megapixels sensor area?

Or a 2k camera from a 2.4 megapixels sensor area? (the same resolution than the Silicon Imaging / Cineform camera?)

Edit: Is it so necessary to save storage at 2k when the camera will also record 4k?

60fps from 11.5 megapixels isn't the same than 2.4 megapixels...

Still, how much would this 60fps 2k footage be in a daily basis? 5%, 10%? Less? Then, why not 2k RGB?

It doesn't make sense.

I'm sorry my non native american english. It seems Mike caught the sense:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=804082&postcount=19

And here is the same point (mine not Mike's), ahead:

Given the fact the 1080p RGB is scaled from the 4K and the 2K RAW doesn't, my doubt:

[for slow motion purposes from the 60fps onboard]
1080p RGB better choice than 2K RAW?

I can imagine to shoot 4K...

...and for the slow motion sequences: 1080 RGB scaled from 4K (having the native res and the DOF 35mm as reference),
uprezing again such slow motion sequences (just those) for 4K online editing (coupled to the major 4K footage).

Any thoughts?

 

[Stephen Williams]

so is there any change in for cine lenses between the S35 sensor area versus 35mm?

i.e. - is a 14mm a 14mm in both shooting options? Or is it magnified?

Hi,

A 18mm Zeiss Super Speed lens is always an 18mm Lens.

FWIW Zeiss Superspeeds (35mm set) come in the following focal lengths:-
18mm,25mm,35mm,50mm & 85mm. Exactly the same 5 focal lengths for the Hi-Speed Canon set too!

Thats right just 5 lenses, they work for 35mm or S35.

Stephen

 

[filmmaker1977]

my goodness man.. don't set up the confusion over here.. because you can be a lighting cameraman but the most of us are simply indie movie makers and imagine if they don't follow you..


now i'm speaking as instructor in the real life.. filmmaking practice instructor.. the aim is to give to the receptor the info he needs straight to the job..


there will be magnification from super 35 mm to regular 35 mm as it happens from still 35 mm to both.. the opposite is no coverage..


consequence: you bought a non cheap super 35mm sensor to crop as you had a 2/3 sensor v.g. silicon camera.. and you must have a super 16 mm lens if you want a decent 2k image.. but always less than 25%! comparing to what you could take w/ the 35 mm advantage..


that's what it happened w/ the specs change.. we lost the 2k scaled.. the best we could at 2k.. well, we still have the 4k.. if it won't be more changes until the red delivery.. :-Laugh(DBG):


btw, emanuel did you forget the magnification at red 2k (new specs)?.. if from still 35 mm lenses.. and 2x that's a lot.. a wide angle goes normal..


edit
but only because it's christmas..

 

[Landon D Parks]

Thing is: You say anyone who does not shoot with REDCODE is making a mistake, yet if I want to shoot with the highest possible resolution, you don't offer REDCODE format (4.4k option). Seems kind of like you need to either A) Get rid of the 4.5k option, or B) Make the 4.5k option available with REDCODE. Otherwise, it's not to wise of an idea to tell people there making a mistake if they don't shoot in a format they don't have the option to shoot in. It's like your putting your own in-camera option in the trash by telling people: Well, we offer this Super high-res format, but we don't suggest you shoot in it.

 

[filmmaker1977]

right landon.. now you're there..


and you can guess how much i am unsuspicious to confirm what you're saying..


this specs change was a significant step backwards.. :crybaby: w/ christmas presents or not.. :crybaby: :crybaby:


it had been better don't announce anything and to get a good surprise later.. good one..


a teaser is only and effectively fair when the trailer doesn't compromise the expectations.. rule number one of the marketing in this film business.. any serious move shall follow this.. there were careers w/ a premature ending after to break that rule..




edit


for now, this company has been on schedule with their teasing.. we'll wait and see.. beyond this, the next step is the prototype w/ 20/30 beta test units until the end of 2006, correct?..


well, we still have 10 days.. (just kidding now)


i'll keep waiting for april-june.. hoping that early 2007 (or first half) won't be late 2007.. nor more than that.. nor less than 4k at 35 mm format.. (not kidding)

 

[tonacidigital]

Thing is: You say anyone who does not shoot with REDCODE is making a mistake, yet if I want to shoot with the highest possible resolution, you don't offer REDCODE format (4.4k option). Seems kind of like you need to either A) Get rid of the 4.5k option, or B) Make the 4.5k option available with REDCODE.

There has to be some logical reason that redcode is not available in 2540p format. They didn't leave it out just to spite you.

Otherwise, it's not to wise of an idea to tell people there making a mistake if they don't shoot in a format they don't have the option to shoot in. It's like your putting your own in-camera option in the trash by telling people: Well, we offer this Super high-res format, but we don't suggest you shoot in it.

Jim never said.. it would be a mistake not to shoot 2540p REDCODE. Give people 4k REDCODE and it still doesn't make everyone happy enough hehe.

 

[FatBird19]

There has to be some logical reason that redcode is not available in 2540p format. They didn't leave it out just to spite you.

Actually, yes they did...I just talked to Jim. rogar-BigGrin(DBG)

 

[Jarred Land]

There has to be some logical reason that redcode is not available in 2540p format. They didn't leave it out just to spite you.

Redcode would be great to have everywhere in every size in every format.. but you gotta remember that its an onboard compression that is happening in camera out of incredibly large chunks of data, and i imagine there is a point somewhere along the line that the processing power to compress such a large pixel count is too incredibly high.

 

[Emanuel]

Jarred you're completely right!

My request is just to bring again the option of scaling 2k RGB@60fps only for slow motion purposes. We wouldn't need more than 5% of the shooting use and it could have a different level of compression or am I wrong?

 

[Emanuel]

btw, emanuel did you forget the magnification at red 2k (new specs)?.. if from still 35 mm lenses.. and 2x that's a lot.. a wide angle goes normal..

I didn't forget. And actually I feel free to miss the Super16 lenses option. I was talking about the crop/magnification factor from the SLR 35mm setup. Without any problem. Unless avoiding the use of wide angle @slow_motion. A hassle indeed. But 'cause I'm not working in hollywood, my slow motion shots will begin @normal. :laugh:

 

[Landon D Parks]

If 2540p can't be used with there official compression code, then he should have said "If you shoot anything under 2540p, it would be a mistake to not shoot REDCODE". Not: "Anyone who does not shoot REDCODE is making a mistake" In general, this would mean, anyone who does not shoot REDCODE for any reason.

It's just a matter of the way he worded it.

Still though, why even offer 2540p? Thats not that much better than 4k, you can't use REDCODE compression... It's kind of like including the option to shoot 2k and 2.2k... Whats the point?

 

[Blue]

If 2540p can't be used with there official compression code, then he should have said "If you shoot anything under 2540p, it would be a mistake to not shoot REDCODE". Not: "Anyone who does not shoot REDCODE is making a mistake" In general, this would mean, anyone who does not shoot REDCODE for any reason.

It's just a matter of the way he worded it.

Still though, why even offer 2540p? Thats not that much better than 4k, you can't use REDCODE compression... It's kind of like including the option to shoot 2k and 2.2k... Whats the point?

Who's got the 12 guage?

 

[Jannard]

If 2540p can't be used with there official compression code, then he should have said "If you shoot anything under 2540p, it would be a mistake to not shoot REDCODE". Not: "Anyone who does not shoot REDCODE is making a mistake" In general, this would mean, anyone who does not shoot REDCODE for any reason.

It's just a matter of the way he worded it.

Still though, why even offer 2540p? Thats not that much better than 4k, you can't use REDCODE compression... It's kind of like including the option to shoot 2k and 2.2k... Whats the point?

I have to assume that you are pulling our collective chains...

Jim

 

[Jarred Land]

Who's got the 12 guage?

lol.. no kidding.

Its the uncompressed option for people requiring the ultimate, albiet visually the same picture quality for high budget, super-studio work. 99% of us would never need it, but having it there, as an option is a little reassurance for those insanely specific projects.

 

[Gibby]

Landon,

forrest trees