F55: Sony F55, Red Scarlet or Arri Amira

Viscount Omega said:
External recorder....Ugh.

What is the best internal recording spec you can get with it? Is it mediocre?

Btw, I saw your grading reel. Good stuff. But that's way too much detail for me. Too sharp, too pixelated. But I think I can fix that with settings and some older lenses. And are you shooting at 25 or 30 frames per second? Not enough motion blur for filmic look.
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Interesting you should say that, because most of it was shot with a Cooke 20-100 from 1978, and if you think that's too sharp definitely don't get a new camera with 4k because most people consider the F3 soft by comparison to it's newer siblings. That said, what you may be seeing is the vimeo compression, which does what it does..

However, not everything on their was F3 either, it's a mixed bag with some older 5D stuff, A7S, a little bit of RED, etc...generally speaking the cleanest, softest stuff is indeed F3 though.
 
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A Cooke lens from 1978 is like a Ferrari from 1978. I was thinking more like an old 1978 Chevy Camaro.

The dynamic range of the F3 looks similar to my A7SII with "Picture Profile" off. (11 stops?) And it still has a little rolling shutter but it makes up for it in other ways. It's a nice, fat image with loads of info and great color.

You know, I'm always surprised when I show people stuff I've shot with 11 stops of DR and they point at the TV and say "Whoa!" and they seem genuinely impressed.

I feel like saying, "What are you blind? Don't you see that blown out window at the back left corner of the room 18 feet behind the guy?!"

(I'm joking)

I wish the DR was a stop or two more and I hate the external recorder but otherwise I like it.
 
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Viscount Omega said:
A Cooke lens from 1978 is like a Ferrari from 1978. I was thinking more like an old 1978 Chevy Camaro.

The dynamic range of the F3 looks similar to my A7SII with "Picture Profile" off. (11 stops?) And it still has a little rolling shutter but it makes up for it in other ways. It's a nice, fat image with loads of info and great color.

You know, I'm always surprised when I show people stuff I've shot with 11 stops of DR and they point at the TV and say "Whoa!" and they seem genuinely impressed.

I feel like saying, "What are you blind? Don't you see that blown out window at the back left corner of the room 18 feet behind the guy?!"

I wish the DR was a stop or two more and I hate the external recorder but otherwise I like it.
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No. Actually the DR on the F3 is a solid 13 stops in SLOG and Prores 422HQ/444 on a recorder. I know this for a fact having compared it with the RED Epic and Dragon and after numerous tests. The RED Epic had less and the Dragon was about equal. It definitely has more usuable DR than the A7SII, because there is so much noise in the shadows of the latter by comparison. (It is also cleaner than the Epic and Dragon in low light and Tungsten. The new Helium is the first from RED that surpasses it really (by a large margin).
 
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Ok, 13 stops total DR makes sense when including the shadows with the F3.

I think what I am seeing in the A7SII (in slog2 or 3) is more DR dedicated to the highlights. That is usually ok with me because I like crushed blacks.

Check this out. Looks like someone just took an F3 out of the box and shot this. Not even shooting log. Blown highlights all over the place, LOL. But it's beautiful!

https://vimeo.com/25550683

btw, they're not southern Americans. It's Tbilisi, Georgia. Yes, that Georgia.
 
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Test. It's Arri Alexa vs. Sony F3 w/S-Log vs. Canon 7D.

Full Screen Here: https://vimeo.com/30859426




I think the Arri wins in DR (and most categories) but it's not by a huge margin to me. YMMV. When I compare costs, it's not even close.

Plus, if I get jacked on the street walking with an F3 it's nothing to cry over.
 
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Viscount Omega said:
Test. It's Arri Alexa vs. Sony F3 w/S-Log vs. Canon 7D.

in DR (and most categories) but it's not by a huge margin to me. YMMV. When I compare costs, it's not even close.

Plus, if I get jacked on the street walking with an F3 it's nothing to cry over.
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Yep, that's the video that convinced me to pick an F3 up. Have never regretted it. Skin tones just look good on it. Might even pick up a second one, because they are so cheap now. And honestly, the image is much more solid than coming from a DSLR. If you do get one, I think you will be pleasantly surprised. Seems like a reasonable step too because it will put you in a more experienced position to make a decision about what your priorities are later while working in a similar form factor. If you do get an Alexa further down the road, you will have invested almost nothing in this camera and probably picked up the necessary support equipment you can use later when moving up the food chain...
 
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Dr is dr if you are dedicating it to somewhere you don't want it dedicated to you don't know how to expose or treat in post or both
 
From someone who had a F3 and loved the image: get one with the body armour upgrade and the 444 unlocked. This will give you the most out of the camera. Get the oddyssey 7Q and maybe the zacuto gratical eye. Get BP-U batteries with d-tap out so you can power your system without fuss.

There is some great knowledge on this forum about colouring Slog. There are some great LUTs floating around going from Slog to Slog3 for example. Easy to make your own with LUTcalc.
 
To counter Edward on the f3 - ed got a lovely milky look - but IMO getting any other look - like full saturation is very hard.

Also built it can be heavy - but I had a shuttle and a momitor - now there are options for monitor. recorders..

Also it's not very sharp - a £1500 bmc4k is a lot simpler to get a look - maybe less dr though
 
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Morgan we made some progress with the F3 after our last conversation about this. LUTs going to LC709A and Sgamut3.cine seemed to open up possibilites. But I sold it just as I got that going :( still miss its image but not the weight
 
SamEd said:
I think the talent looks happiest with the Alexa.
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It's true.

Alexa goes first--fresh and smiling.

Sony--a little angry like "Aw man, another take? I gave you my best."

Canon--playful but tired and "How long do we have to be here?"

Repeat.

Anyway, I'm glad they were there to do it so I can try to grade them.
 
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I pushed this footage way too hard--that's why it looks blotchy and ripped to shreds. The file was too small and compressed to begin with.

But if I were to grade some fresh ProRes 4444 stuff, I might do it something like this.

I didn't add any sharpening. I think next time I would. Maybe 10-15% depending on what it needs.

Full Screen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xj8ayadfxw0&feature=youtu.be


 
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stokstad said:
Morgan we made some progress with the F3 after our last conversation about this. LUTs going to LC709A and Sgamut3.cine seemed to open up possibilites. But I sold it just as I got that going :( still miss its image but not the weight
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Try ACES with the F3.

I do all my grading in Nuke with ACES and it's like having an entirely new camera. ACES gets more out of the F3 than anything else I have ever seen.
 
morgan_moore said:
To counter Edward on the f3 - ed got a lovely milky look - but IMO getting any other look - like full saturation is very hard.

Also built it can be heavy - but I had a shuttle and a momitor - now there are options for monitor. recorders..

Also it's not very sharp - a £1500 bmc4k is a lot simpler to get a look - maybe less dr though
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It is absolutely no problem getting a saturated look with this camera. I do it all the time.
However, using a bmc4k camera is like a guarantee that someone will have issues with saturation. I have never seen such bad color science, flat, pastel colors, cyan skies, etc. Almost everything out there from BM looks like it was shot in black and white and has been colorized by Ted Turner.
 
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