Sony A7SIII = $3500, 10-bit 4K120p internal, 16-bit 4K60p RAW out

I don't know. With this level of ISO, the lack of ND is disqualifying - no? I mean, it's 2020, I think we're allowed to hope for an ND included here, it's not some novel tech, it's been in cams for ages, and a smaller size should not be an issue. The ASIII is good, but not that good, for 2020, IMHO. YMMV. Let's see what Panasonic does with the next GH, hopefully it's an opening for them.
 
That's what everyone would like, but ND rarely makes it to cameras like this. There are less than 5 out of multiple dozens in this classification with built-in ND and they are pretty random (like a Sony ZV-1 point-and-shoot, or a Canon XC10/15 fixed-lens camera that appeared to not sell too well).
 
Canceled my R5 order - if you were after 8:05 am EST at B&H the morning orders opened, you just moved up a spot. Placed an order for the a7s3 as soon as it went live to hedge my bet, timestamp 10:00 am. Even though I always carry 2-3 bodies, I'd have to shoot at least 2 Canon's for video with the R5 to try and keep it from forcing me into low quality mode. So instead of taking the IQ hit and taking my chances the Florida sun, I'll just pair the a7s3 with the a7r3 (which I already own) or maybe search for a deal on a used r4 for stills to get the Real Time AF. I have a pretty good feel for Sony's in the heat since I've been using them as my main cameras the last five years while dabbling in Fuji and Canon. The unpredictable shutdowns with the R5/6 and the insane recovery times are the dealbreaker. I don't want to be forced into 30p line skipping mode if I've been shooting stills for an hour. If they hit the thermal limits just shooting photos, I don't know if I'll get to shoot much video in daylight hours.

Sadly my dream of shooting 4k60/120p with high mp stills in the same body dies a slow death of overheating shutdowns. The constant lens changes between two bodies to get the same shots with photo and video plus endless sensor swabs (my sony's with IBIS attract more dust than any camera I've owned) will still be a part of my life. Gerald Undone's DR test, higher IQ 4k60/120p with sound and full tracking AF, better battery life, 240fps in HD in a pinch, smaller 10-bit file sizes recording to cheaper cards, the new colors (which look great IMO), raw to my Ninja V, that crazy EVF, Sony's XLR adapter, and so on sold me on the a7s3. Its everything I've wanted in a hybrid video body and the stills are fine for social content needs. My a7r body will handle high IQ stills.

Now I just have to keep from changing my mind sometime in the next 7+ weeks. First world problem, but mercy...

Chris
 
OldCorpse said:
I don't know. With this level of ISO, the lack of ND is disqualifying - no? I mean, it's 2020, I think we're allowed to hope for an ND included here, it's not some novel tech, it's been in cams for ages, and a smaller size should not be an issue. The ASIII is good, but not that good, for 2020, IMHO. YMMV. Let's see what Panasonic does with the next GH, hopefully it's an opening for them.
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Yep - for $3.5k in 2020 it's a rental for me unless I have a specific project it makes sense for. Of course R5 and KOMODO are also non-starters for me too so nothing particularly against this one, looks great if people have the work that it fits.

My reasoning is 12mp means it can't replace my current stills camera, and it doesn't have the video features (ND, anamorphic support, timecode, heck, genlock) I would want from a $3.5k video camera in 2020 (bearing in mind you can get a frikkin' Alexa for $5k used!). There are other question marks too (monitoring latency, etc...).

I'll be very interested to see if Panasonic do an aggressive discount on the S1H. 50p anamorphic raw looks tasty. Also interested in what Panasonic does next with their EVA, what Fuji does next with the X-H2, what Canon's RF video strategy is, and also Sony's next DSLRs are like - for example the a7r2 and a7mk3 took the a7s2's video features and improved on them so maybe the a7r4 and a7mk4 and heck a9mk3 could do the same. And Sigma FP and Blackmagic... wow, there are a lot of manufacturers.

Ultimately, in 2020 I'd rather throw some money towards some of my DP friends than buy an a7s3 and accessories, expensive cards, etc.

In 2021, I think there will be better options. Or maybe Sony will have some tasty firmware update and surprise us (120p RAW! Surprise us that it was a 48mp quad-Bayer sensor all along and unlock 48mp stills - don't think that's going to happen but I can dream!).

Bruce Allen
www.bruceallen.tv
 
Great to see Sony finally going all-out on one of these things.

I think the most exciting thing about this video-wise is if we'll see basically the camera packaged in a video form-factor (with professional I/O, variable ND and XLR inputs) for the suggested FS6.

That'd make for one hell of a video camera.

Trying to shoot conventional motion picture production on these tiny mirrorless cameras is just too much hassle.
 
Grug said:
Great to see Sony finally going all-out on one of these things.

I think the most exciting thing about this video-wise is if we'll see basically the camera packaged in a video form-factor (with professional I/O, variable ND and XLR inputs) for the suggested FS6.

That'd make for one hell of a video camera.

Trying to shoot conventional motion picture production on these tiny mirrorless cameras is just too much hassle.
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I know that everything you mentioned is useful. But this take is always a little bit funny to me. REDs don't have internal NDs. People rig up tons of accessories to high-end cameras, so if you had to put on a matte box for ND and some sort of external monitor that took XLR inputs and spit out SDI (or just used the XLR adapter for the camera and fed out an HDMI wireless signal), it doesn't seem like that much more hassle than using a proper cinema camera. (Proper as in not the more-ENG friendly C300III/FX9-type cameras.)

Maybe you mean too much hassle for shooting ENG? Then I'd agree - there are friendlier options and usually one wants to minimize rigging time and fuss in those fast-moving situations.

I typically use a DSLR-type body as a b-roll shooter (often on gimbal) or additional angle to a C300 or FS7. (Though I've also used them as narrative A cam.) I know everyone does things differently but I've owned a bunch of DSLR/mirrorless cameras and only rarely needed to feed audio into them. Gotten by fine without ND or SDI. Timecode - ok I'll admit that would be nice.
 
ahalpert said:
I know that everything you mentioned is useful. But this take is always a little bit funny to me. REDs don't have internal NDs. People rig up tons of accessories to high-end cameras, so if you had to put on a matte box for ND and some sort of external monitor that took XLR inputs and spit out SDI (or just used the XLR adapter for the camera and fed out an HDMI wireless signal), it doesn't seem like that much more hassle than using a proper cinema camera. (Proper as in not the more-ENG friendly C300III/FX9-type cameras.)

Maybe you mean too much hassle for shooting ENG? Then I'd agree - there are friendlier options and usually one wants to minimize rigging time and fuss in those fast-moving situations.

I typically use a DSLR-type body as a b-roll shooter (often on gimbal) or additional angle to a C300 or FS7. (Though I've also used them as narrative A cam.) I know everyone does things differently but I've owned a bunch of DSLR/mirrorless cameras and only rarely needed to feed audio into them. Gotten by fine without ND or SDI. Timecode - ok I'll admit that would be nice.
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Yeah this is what made me pre-order. I've been leaning more and more to my A7iii on the gimbal instead of rigging up the FS5 for the documentary/corporate stuff I do. While I use the ND on the Fs5 it's not a deal breaker to add a Matte box when needed like when I rent REDs. Gonna sell the Fs5 and a bunch of other goodies and then the A7siii will do 95% of my work and rent a FX9 when I need more camera. Now to convince myself not to sell the A7iii as well and buy two!
 
Gerald Undone has done quite an interesting tech review. I think one thing he discovered was pretty interesting. At 16000ISO it suddenly has a massive drop in noise levels over 12800ISO. Almost like a dual gain mode. All in all, a very interesting camera that covers most of the video requirements a lot of us have been chasing. All the new 7SIII highly useable features are far more appealing to me than 6K and 8K. Very interesting where this going.

Chris Young

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AG79FkN7EPk
 
The A7SIII looks fantastic. For the price point I feel its groundbreaking and very affordable. I have a C300III on pre-order to replace my 7 year old FS700/Odyssey7Q setup (crazy to think that shoots 4k 120FPS and its that old!). I feel like the A7SIII is a C300III without ND and XLRs, image wise can anyone really tell the difference? The A7SIII actually has 0.2 more stops of DR according to Gerald Undone's test which is disappointing for C300III owners as that camera has DGO. Feels strange to be paying more than double for a C300III that has a similar look to the A7SIII. I'm now thinking of picking up an A7SIII to replace my S1H, purely for the autofocus for gimbal shots and the 16bit raw for higher end commercial work. Its funny because I hadn't replaced a camera for such a long time until last year when I swapped my A7S out for the S1H and now I would have purchased 3 cameras in the space of a year almost...
 
cyvideo said:
Gerald Undone has done quite an interesting tech review. I think one thing he discovered was pretty interesting. At 16000ISO it suddenly has a massive drop in noise levels over 12800ISO. Almost like a dual gain mode. All in all, a very interesting camera that covers most of the video requirements a lot of us have been chasing. All the new 7SIII highly useable features are far more appealing to me than 6K and 8K. Very interesting where this going.

Chris Young
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AG79FkN7EPk
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Yes very interesting review. Siii Seems really great. Fantastic DR. Only missing DCI and that thing with color... ah. Filmed with A7r2 as a bcam to C300m2 last year, worked fine but then decided to go all Canon route, also for easier workflow and after noticing I actually liked the stills out of old 5Dm2 better than A7r2.

But now... for those of us who want a small a-cam set up for whenever thats possible a7siii just cant be ignored... almost perfect. Also with the K3M solution, now with 4audio sources (?). Cant remember that worked on the A7r2. (My K3M is broken, cannot test it).

Anyway. Bit exhausting. To many good choices. Need to rest.
 
R5 for $3,900 has a better image than C300 MKIII for $11,000. Had it not had its overheating problems, it'd be everyone's darling.

But Canon doesn't want to upset its pro users, even though there's a lot more money to be made in the consumer sector. So, pros get the features; consumers a bucket of ice.
 
ahalpert said:
I know that everything you mentioned is useful. But this take is always a little bit funny to me. REDs don't have internal NDs. People rig up tons of accessories to high-end cameras, so if you had to put on a matte box for ND and some sort of external monitor that took XLR inputs and spit out SDI (or just used the XLR adapter for the camera and fed out an HDMI wireless signal), it doesn't seem like that much more hassle than using a proper cinema camera. (Proper as in not the more-ENG friendly C300III/FX9-type cameras.)

Maybe you mean too much hassle for shooting ENG? Then I'd agree - there are friendlier options and usually one wants to minimize rigging time and fuss in those fast-moving situations.

I typically use a DSLR-type body as a b-roll shooter (often on gimbal) or additional angle to a C300 or FS7. (Though I've also used them as narrative A cam.) I know everyone does things differently but I've owned a bunch of DSLR/mirrorless cameras and only rarely needed to feed audio into them. Gotten by fine without ND or SDI. Timecode - ok I'll admit that would be nice.
Click to expand...

The vast majority of the hassle comes from the tiny and comparatively flimsy camera bodies of stills cameras. Now no one wants a heavy body, or cares about extreme rigidity for stills cameras - because it's (for the most part) completely unnecessary for stills work. The lenses are light, and even if you do get some flex in the lens mount, it's not an issue because you're shooting individual frames.

That lack of rigidity is a nightmare for motion picture work though. Where you need completely rigid lenses, so that follow focus gears or FIZ motors can operate reliably and repeatably.

You need rigidity so that matte boxes can be easily slipped on and off to mount filters. You need rigidity so that the extra 8kg of components you're adding to your 600g camera, can mount securely, and flex and movement doesn't inhibit your adjustment and operation of those components (monitors, evfs, wireless transmitters, lenses, matte boxes, filters, follow focuses) throughout the day.

We try to add that rigidity back to the camera builds by mounting the stills cameras in cages. But the cameras generally only have a single 1/4-20" mounting hole on the bottom, so actually mounting them without flex is almost impossible - even if you're only using lightweight cinema lenses.

Then you move to I/O issues, where in order to connect conventional accessories, you need to rely on horrific micro/mini/or-at-best full-sized HDMI cables, to feed out to a monitor or cross-conversion box to give you SDI outputs. So your entire camera build is at the mercy of an exceptionally flimsy and unreliable cable connection - and all you can do is use a cable clamp and hope for the best.

Certainly for solo-shooting a lot of these issues aren't a significant concern. But when you have a team of people (even a small one) working with the camera, and relying on it's video output for external monitoring. These are MAJOR issues, and incredibly stressful to deal with.

My most recent attempt at trying to create a viable A-Camera rig based around a mirrorless camera (in this case one of my Fuji X-T3s), ended up like this:

GocHQV1h.jpg


Ji9NClSh.jpg


oU5Gh1Qh.jpg


This is just the bare essentials:

- Camera Cage
- EVF for me to operate from
- Monitor for the AC to pull focus from (and provide HDMI to SDI cross conversion for the EVF and Teradek)
- Teradek Video Transmitter (to feed the image to video village)
- Manual Follow Focus
- Metabones PL Mount Speedbooster Lens Adapter
- Rod-mounted Mattebox (to provide lens support and stop the lenses from pulling against the flimsy native lens mount)
- V-mount plate + battery for power distribution to the camera and accessories
- Top Handle + Arri dovetail clamp

Now the rig was pretty good on the whole. And provided the basic functionality that we'd need for the shoot. But the flex from the camera body made lens changes difficult, it made sliding the matte box down the rods to allow for lens changes difficult, it made using FIZ motors almost impossible (they kept slipping off as the torque pushed the camera body upwards) even though it was in theory wedged between the cage on one end, and the rail-mounted matte box at the other.

Could we have used it? Yes. But the stress that the lack of rigidity added to what me and my ACs had to do, was just more than I was willing to tolerate on a fast-paced shoot. So in the end I gifted my F55 to the production, just to make our lives easier.

How does an A-camera Mirrorless compare to a conventional A-camera rigged identically?

R8Kb3SGh.jpg


Iyja964h.jpg


There's not a lot in it ultimately.
 
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boosh said:
The A7SIII looks fantastic. For the price point I feel its groundbreaking and very affordable. I have a C300III on pre-order to replace my 7 year old FS700/Odyssey7Q setup (crazy to think that shoots 4k 120FPS and its that old!). I feel like the A7SIII is a C300III without ND and XLRs, image wise can anyone really tell the difference? The A7SIII actually has 0.2 more stops of DR according to Gerald Undone's test which is disappointing for C300III owners as that camera has DGO. Feels strange to be paying more than double for a C300III that has a similar look to the A7SIII. I'm now thinking of picking up an A7SIII to replace my S1H, purely for the autofocus for gimbal shots and the 16bit raw for higher end commercial work. Its funny because I hadn't replaced a camera for such a long time until last year when I swapped my A7S out for the S1H and now I would have purchased 3 cameras in the space of a year almost...
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From the small amount of footage released so far, I can see a pretty obvious difference between a7siii vs. c300 iii footage. Stronger examples will come but I don't think it really matters.

Like people speaking of the fs7's success, its features are more important than IQ. The camera ticks too many boxes - namely AF, recording options, IS and size, for the image to be the main thing to look at.

The price difference may feel strange but doesn't necessarily represent better value. For example, if the c300 iii gets used more often on larger shoots in a crew environment, there's potential to walk away with stronger samples, which can potentially land you more higher end work, presumably for more $$$. Where as the a7s iii might not even get the call up at all (nor should it). The inverse may also be true if the camera frees someone to collect footage not possible had they been tied to the traditional film production system.

What I'm trying to say is, both cameras look awesome but it still depends what your'e shooting!
 
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