securing abandoned locations

T

texast9018

Member
Hey everyone,

I seem to keep running into a consistent problem here in Florida. There are a lot of vast fields off of the freeways and abandoned locations that I come across. However, I never know about how to secure a location like that. I rarely see signs that declare the owner of the property, let alone their contact information.

Does anyone know how to get permission to shoot at a location like this.
 
I have found it's best to quietly request permission upon arrival. Like in a whisper. If no one objects, you're good to go.

But seriously, if there are no signs, you probably wouldn't get into any trouble; someone may simply interrupt your shoot. Wear a bright safety vest to show you're harmless.

I've scouted out a few abandoned warehouses in Be'er Sheva that I plan to use. My biggest concern is ascertaining that there is nothing unhealthy lying around.
 
texast9018 said:
Hey everyone,

I seem to keep running into a consistent problem here in Florida. There are a lot of vast fields off of the freeways and abandoned locations that I come across. However, I never know about how to secure a location like that. I rarely see signs that declare the owner of the property, let alone their contact information.

Does anyone know how to get permission to shoot at a location like this.
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The county clerk's office should be able to steer you in the right direction.
 
In Baltimore shooting in an abandoned building usually means dope fiends and/or insane homless people. But we usually don't get permission. not the right way, but it's how we do it for the most part.
 
Richard J. Johnson said:
In Baltimore shooting in an abandoned building usually means dope fiends and/or insane homless people. But we usually don't get permission. not the right way, but it's how we do it for the most part.
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Same thing in Atlanta...the one time we did try and get permission was for an old Norfolk Southern Building and while they still owned the property, no one at NS could tell us who to talk to to try and get the whole thing sorted out.

My general rule of thumb, as long as I do not have to cut locks or climb fences I can talk my way into or out of any situation.
 
You just don't want to get into a situation where you shoot in that location and find out later you don't have the rights (for whatever reason) and then cannot use any of that footage.

Michael
 
No, but what can and likely will happen is someone can get hurt. The injured party may very well look for someone to sue, and that someone is probably going to be YOU. I doubt even production insurance would be willing to pay a claim for an injury incurred on property you had no right or permission to be on in the first place.

Next problem is the chance of someone (cops or property owners) coming and telling you to leave. Not only does that delay your production, it smacks of being unprofessional to your cast and crew, and it wastes their valuable time -- which is a particular concern if they're working on deferred pay, especially if they have to travel to get to your location.

Lastly, if you want to be a working professional in this business, in my opinion it's NEVER a good idea to break the law, no matter what.
 
Dave pretty much nailed the high points . .

Getting location releases is just another one of those miserable pain in a** details that suck at the creative soul. Totally necessary though.

If you're good at enlisting people, a local real estate agent can be a phenomenal help . . .especially if they can be infected with the "bug" and do it for free. They typically have a relationship with the county clerks office and understand how to go about converting Lat/Long to twnship, range, section to tax parcel # to ownership map.

Check for websites - Many counties now have online databases as part of their gis software. It's usually pretty cumbersome to use but still preferable to having to drive to the county records office.

When dealing with large corporations, the public information office is usually preferable to the real estate dept as a place for initial contact - unless it's slasher-horror type stuff <g>.
 
pmark23 said:
That will NEVER happen.
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Yeah, I agree. It's like that notion that you have to have signed releases for every single person appearing in your film. It's just absurd. Nearly every single professional studio movie shot and released has multiple persons in the distance of otherwise who never signed anything.

Take a look at Girl Fight or anything shot in a large city for some blatant examples. And then look at almost any outside shot on Law and Order.

I think the location thing would only be worrisome because of the derelect element. But hey -- maybe you can use them in the shot. Just make sure that they sign a release. ;)
 
Most of the major studio fims hire tons of extras to look like people in the distance... ;)

Girl Fight was an indie...

Michael
 
chapelgrovefilms said:
No, but what can and likely will happen is someone can get hurt. The injured party may very well look for someone to sue, and that someone is probably going to be YOU. I doubt even production insurance would be willing to pay a claim for an injury incurred on property you had no right or permission to be on in the first place.

Next problem is the chance of someone (cops or property owners) coming and telling you to leave. Not only does that delay your production, it smacks of being unprofessional to your cast and crew, and it wastes their valuable time -- which is a particular concern if they're working on deferred pay, especially if they have to travel to get to your location.

Lastly, if you want to be a working professional in this business, in my opinion it's NEVER a good idea to break the law, no matter what.
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Ridiculous.

You know what? If you follow the law you still aren't safe from being sued or chased off the property or hassled by the police.

In my 20+ years of "breaking the law", nothing bad ever happened to myself or anyone that I knew. I haven't even heard of any stories other than getting chased off by the cops or property owners (but the few times it's happened to me we were usually able to talk ourselves into shooting or at least finishing the shot.)

As for being a "working professional", they ALL "break the law" to get the shot. The shot is all that matters to the professional -- not "the law". You go around preaching "the law" and I guarantee that you will never get work anywhere.
 
pmark23 said:
Ridiculous.

You know what? If you follow the law you still aren't safe from being sued or chased off the property or hassled by the police.

In my 20+ years of "breaking the law", nothing bad ever happened to myself or anyone that I knew. I haven't even heard of any stories other than getting chased off by the cops or property owners (but the few times it's happened to me we were usually able to talk ourselves into shooting or at least finishing the shot.)

As for being a "working professional", they ALL "break the law" to get the shot. The shot is all that matters to the professional -- not "the law". You go around preaching "the law" and I guarantee that you will never get work anywhere.
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"Go ahead. Everybody does it!" Yeah, right. Call the major studios' legal departments and ask them.

You can count yourself lucky that nothing bad has ever happened to your people......yet. But if it ever does, it's your head in the noose. Further, just being 'chased off' the property displays a complete lack of professionalism and proper planning.

There are quite a few cities, towns and municipalities in this great land where independent filmmakers are no longer welcome because a few thought they had the right to go anywhere and do anything they wanted to, the law and the rights of individuals be damned.

You go your way. As for me and my crew, we'll obey the law. If obeying the law and respecting the property rights of others keeps us from being rich Hollywood celebrities, then so be it.
 
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Chamber005 said:
Yeah, I agree. It's like that notion that you have to have signed releases for every single person appearing in your film. It's just absurd. Nearly every single professional studio movie shot and released has multiple persons in the distance of otherwise who never signed anything.

Take a look at Girl Fight or anything shot in a large city for some blatant examples. And then look at almost any outside shot on Law and Order.

I think the location thing would only be worrisome because of the derelect element. But hey -- maybe you can use them in the shot. Just make sure that they sign a release. ;)
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Yes, DO look at those movies. Notice how many takes there are in a fast-paced action sequence. Then look and see how many of the SAME PEOPLE are in the background throughout that scene. We all know how long it takes to setup and shoot multiple takes like that. In Hollywood, they could spend several DAYS shooting a street scene. Do you honestly believe those people in the background are just random nobodies who showed up and decided to go through the SAME MOTIONS over and over and over again?

They're paid extras. Hollywood, and some indies, have money to burn.

And yes, they have signed releases.
 
pmark23 said:
As for being a "working professional", they ALL "break the law" to get the shot. The shot is all that matters to the professional -- not "the law". You go around preaching "the law" and I guarantee that you will never get work anywhere.
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I don't 'get work'. I produce. I'm the one who makes the work for my cast and crew. And nobody will be working for me who thinks getting the shot is more important than being safe, being legal, and respecting the rights of others.
 
chapelgrovefilms said:
I don't 'get work'. I produce. I'm the one who makes the work for my cast and crew. And nobody will be working for me who thinks getting the shot is more important than being safe, being legal, and respecting the rights of others.
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from the producers stand point he is absolutely right. The great directors are not necessarily "professional" in the sense that they will in fact break laws to get the shot. A producer would not be doing his or her job if they break laws or allow laws to be broken.
 
That's all nice and politically correct, but it's nowhere near the truth. Producers get the shot or they are fired. They follow the law only as much as they have to.

I've worked with a number of producers on big series (Amazing Race, Discovery and Nat Geo productions, etc), and it's amazing what they get away with. Sure they have an army of lawyers behind them, but they're still breaking the law -- and there's no insurance policy for that.

Going back to the OP, it's obviously an indy film, and going guerilla is quite acceptable.

Not making your film because some ridiculous permitting issue (who's original intention is to stop 100-man crews from blocking traffic and doesn't apply to you) is just dumb. Even dumber is making up rules that don't exist (ie: thinking you don't own the footage, but the owner of the property does!)
 
pmark23 said:
That's all nice and politically correct, but it's nowhere near the truth. Producers get the shot or they are fired. They follow the law only as much as they have to.

I've worked with a number of producers on big series (Amazing Race, Discovery and Nat Geo productions, etc), and it's amazing what they get away with. Sure they have an army of lawyers behind them, but they're still breaking the law -- and there's no insurance policy for that.

Going back to the OP, it's obviously an indy film, and going guerilla is quite acceptable.

Not making your film because some ridiculous permitting issue (who's original intention is to stop 100-man crews from blocking traffic and doesn't apply to you) is just dumb. Even dumber is making up rules that don't exist (ie: thinking you don't own the footage, but the owner of the property does!)
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Saying there's no way anyone can be successful unless they break the law is just wrong. The fact that people DO break the law in this business doesn't mean if someone DOESN'T do it, then they can't be successful.

I wasn't talking about permitting issues. I was talking about property rights, people's right to privacy, and the safety of cast and crew. The fact that people feel it's perfectly okay to spit on the rights of others and take risks with the health and safety of their employees in their thirst for the almighty dollar is just sad.

I don't recall anyone in this discussion making up rules, as you mention.

If this indie producer chooses to ignore the law and the rights of others, and trespass on property he has no right to be on, that's his business. If his lead actor (or anyone else) steps in a gopher hole and breaks his ankle in the process.....well, that's just his bad luck, right? Of course, then the injured person loses his construction job as a result. Then somebody is going to get sued.

"Nah, he won't sue me," the indie producer says. "I ain't got nothin'. He'll sue the corporation that owns the lot where he got injured. They've got the deep pockets!" Maybe. And if he loses that claim, THEN he sues the indie producer. If he WINS the claim against the corporation, then the corporation sues the indie producer to recover its losses.

"Let 'em sue me," the indie producer says. "I ain't got nothin'." That may be true. So they'll take what he has, and then take all his future earnings until the claim is paid off. (Just ask O.J.)

pmark, your experience sounds impressive. But I don't know you from Adam. All I know from your profile is you're from Earth. In this thread you say you've been doing this 20+ years, but in another thread a few days ago you said you'd been doing it 10 years. So I don't know. But I don't believe for a second that anybody HAS to break laws and trample people's rights to be successful in this business. Certainly not the indie filmmakers, who aren't beholding to studio executives for their jobs.

So you do it your way and I'll do it mine. And best of luck to both of us. I hope other indie filmmakers will take a stand on the side of doing what's right. But that's their decision to make.
 
chapelgrovefilms said:
Saying there's no way anyone can be successful unless they break the law is just wrong. The fact that people DO break the law in this business doesn't mean if someone DOESN'T do it, then they can't be successful.

I wasn't talking about permitting issues. I was talking about property rights, people's right to privacy, and the safety of cast and crew. The fact that people feel it's perfectly okay to spit on the rights of others and take risks with the health and safety of their employees in their thirst for the almighty dollar is just sad.
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You don't need permission by anyone to respect privacy and run a safe shoot. Going back to the original post, who's privacy is he violating by shooting at the side of the road, or in an empty field, or abandoned building?

pmark, your experience sounds impressive. But I don't know you from Adam. All I know from your profile is you're from Earth. In this thread you say you've been doing this 20+ years, but in another thread a few days ago you said you'd been doing it 10 years. So I don't know. But I don't believe for a second that anybody HAS to break laws and trample people's rights to be successful in this business. Certainly not the indie filmmakers, who aren't beholding to studio executives for their jobs.
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I work in Russia getting permits for foreign documentary and film crews, and then keeping them out of jail or kicked out of the country when they're here (among other things). And I'm exactly like you when a foreign crew is over here: Nobody does anything without permits, letters from authorities, etc.

I know what you're talking about and understand your point of view, but it's not black and white. If you follow all the rules to the letter you're not going to get anything filmed. The trick is knowing how far into the shades of grey you can go. I especially see it with the producers from large organizations, who have very strict corporate guidelines on law and safety -- but also need to get the material they need so they don't get fired.

However, if you're just some kid with an HVX and a few buddies trying to make a zombie-flick in an abandoned factory -- nothing bad is going to happen. Nobody will sue you. Nobody will throw you in jail. Nobody will die (unless you're being idiots). Worse that will happen is you'll get kicked off the property -- and chances are that you'll be able to talk yourselves into finishing the shots (and gain a few actors in the process!)
 
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