Steadicam with a Film Camera???

S

SE7

Well-known member
Hey guys. I was wondering if I could get some help with a little problem of mine.

Next summer I am shooting a new movie on 16mm film, and I have the Krasnogorsk K-3 camera. I was wondering if you guys have any advice for using this camera on a Glidecam (4000 Pro).

PROBLEMS:

1. You have to constantly hold down the trigger to film (this may be fixed by using some tape :) )

2. You have to cover up the viewfinder when your eye is up against it (or light will leak in), so how would you know what you're filming?

3. How do you know if exposure is correct when you can't see, and you're moving around?

4. Focus... Have the subject far away, and set the focus to infinity?


It sounds like a lot of planning to be able to do ONE steadicam shot, let alone numerous shots.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
C.Worley
 
NO.

You can shoot film on a steadi cam... even a glidecam.... but not the 2000 or 4000 series. It might be possible on a 4000 if you are shooting an extremely small film camera (ie Bolex) but not much more.

You would most likely just riddle yourself with problems and what not. If you want to use a steadi cam with a film camera get a good vest and arm system that can support the weight.

1) Film cameras can have remote triggers (called cable release) which can start and stop camera. Having a peice of tape on the button will just WASTE lots of expensive film. You'll have lots of head and tail going to waste.

2) Most professional 16mm cameras should be outfitted with a video tap. You would attach a video monitor to the sled of the steadi cam. It's crappy quality usually but it will give you composition. Even if you don't have a video tap, most 16mm cams should have eye peices which close if your eye isn't pressing on the viewfinder. This protects from light leak)

3) You don't need to see through the camera to know exposure... when using film you can't rely on the image to gauge proper exposure. Buy a light meter. Know what film speed you are using (iso/asa rating) and know what the fstop your lens is going to be at. Light the scene.

3a) Exposure shouldn't change if you lit the scene; even if you are doing a dolly move or whatnot. The only time you should change exposure mid shot, is if you have to. (ie going from an indoor set to outdoors)
Racking exposure is an ugly trick to manage. It can work, but I avoid at all cost.

4) Professional cams can remote focus or pull focus mid shot. If you are unable to get the equipment nescessary or lack the crew with the necessary skills, I would either keep your subject the same distance from the camera (ie walking shot with subject where subject and camera are always exactly X number of feet from each other) or have scene at infinity focus. I would recommend a wide angle lens due to it helping keep a larger depth of field. You can also light the scene brighter and stop the lens down to increase depth of field.

Steadicam is a lot of work and talent. That is why there are official steadi cam operators. It's a job in itself!
 
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Basically what Prodigy said. It's your camera, dude. The steadicam has been around since the late '70s. It was designed for film cams, but some work better than others. My DP has a huge Arri BL3S that I can't get anyone to fly because of it's sheer bulk.

I'd say a video tap is a must, and a remote focus would be necessary as well. As for exposure, what you see out of the viewfinder is NOT what you get with a film cam.
 
Yup, you need to find a video tap .. or rather, any small camera that you can mount in the viewfinder, to make a video image that you can then send down to the Steadicam's monitor in the regular video fashion.

A quick Google search turned up this page that I post purely as an example, I have never heard of them before so do your research: http://www.duallcamera.com/store/VideoTaps.shtml They have both color and B&W taps listed for the K3, looks like they cost about 700 each. I'm sure you could find one to rent from somewhere for less for your shoot.
Or you could find a small "spy" type camera and rig it into the viewfinder to provide you an image.
Another (not very good) option is to mount a small video camera on the stage next to your film camera, it would be challenging as it wouldn't show exactly what you are shooting, but you should be able to get a pretty closely matched frame if you are shooting wider shots.

As for lens control, you might not need any if you have enough light that you can stop down the iris and keep an approximately similar distance to the subject. Though really if possible, you would want to get yourself a radio FF (They are available to rent) and maybe even a 2nd channel for Iris if you are moving between lighting conditions.


This certainly can be done just fine either 'properly' for a little bit of money, or adequately with a little bit of DIY tinkering.

- Mikko
 
Thanks for the responses guys... funny you say that Mikko, because before I even read your comment, I went on ebay and bought a very small, very cheap spy pinhole camera... I think it should work if (like you said) I just attach it to the front of the viewfinder. I think it's wireless too, so that could be useful.

Total cost with shipping for the mini spy camera on ebay, $35. (Thumbs up!!) :)

Thanks again for the advice... but I still think I might be able to do it on a 4000 Pro, because the K-3 is like 10 lbs. I'll tell you if it works... hehe. Although, I do, however, need to buy a little adapter to convert the thread on the bottom of the K-3 to fit a regular tripod... I forgot, does anyone know what size the thread is on the K-3 (and on a regular tripod fitting). Thanks.

Cheers everyone.
C.Worley
 
Yea video tap is a must. Im doing some Glidecam V16 work tommorwo.... have to remeber to charge the Damn monitor batteries.
 
Don't know about the K-3, but the (smaller of the 2, and the most commonn) Standard tripod scre is 1/4"-20. That's a quater inch, 20 threads per inch.

Note that all these adapters will add weight to the camera and could make it all to heavy for your GC4K.

And I hope to god that you arn't flying this lot handhend? A camera of this size is really going to need a vest & arm system.

- Mikko
 
Hi C:

You sound as if you already have your mind made up but here goes anyway...

1. Why shoot with the K3? I own one and have used it for years. They are pretty crude instruments, mediocre soft lens and tons of gate weave. Not to mention how damned sore your thumb is going to be after winding that puppy up all day to shoot a few loads of film. To me, you are trying to fit a square peg in a round hole, it can be done but you are going to fight it all of the way.

2. Do you have an HVX? Honestly, even the DVX can be setup to give a very filmic look that the average person will never be able to tell apart from the K3 16mm footage, except that the K3 footage will have more grain and a ton of gate weave. Plus that you will spend a fortune in lab and telecine.

I am not downplaying shooting 16. I love 16 but these days, I would only shoot it if a client is paying for everything, all of the way (stock, lab, telecine and the time delays of shooting with a non-magazine, non-blimped Russian novelty) Other than that, I can get a superior picture on my HVX in most situations at a MUCH lower cost and a lot easier with feedback as I shoot it. The HVX and DVX, for most looks, (unless you are trying to make your film look like home movies like Spike Lee did in Malcolm X when he shot some re-enactments with the K3), looks better than the K3 can.

Just some food for thought. And if you are set on Steadicam type of shot, the K3 is not anything close to a good Steadicam camera. An old SR-1 or SR-2 or even a Bolex, to a point, would be a lot nicer.

Best,

Dan
 
Thanks for the comments and considerations.. I haven't noticed TOO much gate weave on my K-3, yet. The main reason I wanted to shoot on 16mm was, because it gives it a sort-of filmic nostalgic appearance that is almost impossible to imitate on film. You can get close with a DVX or HVX but it still lacks a little bit of "spirit" when it comes to true film. Don't get me wrong, the DVX or HVX (in my opinion) are way better cameras, but unfortunately I don't have the money to purchase one right now.

Can anyone think of a way (if my film is good enough, anyway) to make money off of this short? I will be spending hundreds of dollars (I have hundreds, but not thousands, so a DVX or HVX is out of the picture unfortunately) on film, processing, telecine, ecetera, and it would be nice to get a little bit of my money back... Maybe I'm just dreaming, but spending hundreds of your own money, and not getting any in return sounds crazy (actually it sounds like filmmaking :) ).

Anyways, thanks for the tips again... Oh, by the way, I was planning on just using the GC4000 Pro SLED alone, with the arm or vest, because unfortunately I don't have any other money to spend....

Thanks.
C.Worley
 
Hi SE-7:

Have you considered using your hundreds of dollars and renting a real 16mm package like an Arri SR or Aaton? Lot of guys with Super 16 packages would rather make a few hundred dollars for a rental than just have it sitting around, collecting dust.

Just a suggestion. I like the K3 but it really gives a very distinct low-fi look because of the soft lens and in my case, massive gate weave.

Best,

Dan
 
Oh, great idea puredrifting. Yeah, I didn't really think about that... What's kind of funny is I realized I have a few hundred dollars now, and my parents said they would let me borrow some money next summer (when I'm filming this movie). So I may purchase either a DVX or an XL2. Not sure yet... but don't get me wrong, I love 16mm and I will still use it for tests or short films.

Thanks for all the advice, but now I know that I will be able to use a Glidecam (with an XL2).

Thanks.
C.Worley
 
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