yeah, Sigma Art & Contemporary lenses are mostly pretty solid in their e-mount versions (as well as EF). Probably my go-to when renting. I've had pretty decent video AF results with the A7RIV+MC11+Sigma 70-200 EF Sports lens... but I wish they'd get off their rumps and debut a native e-mount 70-200 already.
Run away from nikon?
- Thread starter morgan_moore
- Start date
ahalpert
Major Contributor
They were very much supposed to release it early this year. But it got delayed supposedly so they could work on the focus algorithms.
My guess is that they realized that their lens was dead in the water if the lighter, cheaper tamron can run circles around it autofocus-wise. And they're probably redesigning the focus motors from the ground up.
Tamron uses a different motor on the 70-180 than on their other zooms. Apparently it pushes and pulls the focusing part from both directions and consequently it's super fast and super accurate. It helps that the lens is lightweight. I just wish it had IS
The 70-180 was the only lens I chose on the basis of autofocus performance because it seems very important to me in a telephoto zoom. Everything else I chose had good enough autofocus and had the best value equation of price/optical prettiness. And i got the sigma 24-70 because it goes to 24 and the tamron only goes to 28 (28-75)
The Samyangs are eminently more usable wide-open in mirrorless than on dslr because of in-camera chromatic aberration correction. They still get soft wide open but the color is good and flare control is pretty good. I like the samyang look. Sigma is more even across the frame and sharper wide open but I think I actually like the samyang rendering better. I dont think the tamrons have the prettiest rendering or bokeh of the competing options, but they're sharp and totally good enough. And they have nifty lightweight designs with very good autofocus
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Samuel Dilworth
Well-known member
Do these third-party lenses focus and zoom in the same direction?
I might be particularly bad at this, but I still get confused about which way to turn the rings on my Olympus lenses after years of Nikkors before.
I might be particularly bad at this, but I still get confused about which way to turn the rings on my Olympus lenses after years of Nikkors before.
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
Most lenses turn the non nikon way. (Something I may have to face up to) there are a few exceptions, Tamron?? Old Cosina, old zeiss manual??
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Current feeling is to just 'waste' money on a couple of used G nikkors (24-105, 60 macro)
If I keep going with the Z6 - the loss on those lenses would probably keep pace with sony cameras and used lenses getting cheaper over time.
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Current feeling is to just 'waste' money on a couple of used G nikkors (24-105, 60 macro)
If I keep going with the Z6 - the loss on those lenses would probably keep pace with sony cameras and used lenses getting cheaper over time.
Samuel Dilworth
Well-known member
I bought the 60 mm f/2.8G AF-S macro when it came out in 2008 and used it for ten years. A very fine lens with beautiful out-of-focus rendition and a neat, compact, frill-free design that doesn’t extend to focus. One of my favourites.
One thing to consider is the near future of Nikon cameras. Unlike Panasonic, Sony, and Canon, Nikon has no high-end video/cinema cameras to protect. And Nikon shows signs of finally recognising that video is important.
My conclusion is that good video things are coming to Nikon mirrorless soon. I could be wrong.
One thing to consider is the near future of Nikon cameras. Unlike Panasonic, Sony, and Canon, Nikon has no high-end video/cinema cameras to protect. And Nikon shows signs of finally recognising that video is important.
My conclusion is that good video things are coming to Nikon mirrorless soon. I could be wrong.
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
You may be right. but you may be wrong - I see nikon as using sonys parts bin in a non imaginitive manner* - and the other thread pushed me to have a think about how the only current nikon I have is one 70-200 and the z6 no other G glass.
It is clear Jim Jannard had a D3 (like me) and though 'thats all we need but 24FPS instead of 12' and build Red - Nikon did not join that party in more than a decade. D camera with a an XLR bottom (big grip) yes please!
I hoped nikon would follow with 25nef a second.. (an alexa beating file) but no tools for working pros really happened.
F->FZ adapter with drop in filter.. thats a no brainer.. where is it? Morons - even Canon got there.
Thank you for the report on that 60mm lens - I have two 55macro manuals that have served me well - it looks similar
*I played with a D6 last week doing stills .. those pro cameras are still champion
It is clear Jim Jannard had a D3 (like me) and though 'thats all we need but 24FPS instead of 12' and build Red - Nikon did not join that party in more than a decade. D camera with a an XLR bottom (big grip) yes please!
I hoped nikon would follow with 25nef a second.. (an alexa beating file) but no tools for working pros really happened.
F->FZ adapter with drop in filter.. thats a no brainer.. where is it? Morons - even Canon got there.
Thank you for the report on that 60mm lens - I have two 55macro manuals that have served me well - it looks similar
*I played with a D6 last week doing stills .. those pro cameras are still champion
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ahalpert
Major Contributor
Well, you can get RAW out from Nikons now. That's pretty cool.
I wouldn't hold my breath on a pro Nikon video camera. It could happen. But I havent even heard it rumored.
If you're thinking about jumping ship later, why not buy the Nikon lenses used? When you buy used and resell, you often lose little more than the 13% that ebay/paypal take.
Or wait if you can wait. The R7 or the a7iv might be the better canon/Sony value proposition cameras anyway than what's available now
I wouldn't hold my breath on a pro Nikon video camera. It could happen. But I havent even heard it rumored.
If you're thinking about jumping ship later, why not buy the Nikon lenses used? When you buy used and resell, you often lose little more than the 13% that ebay/paypal take.
Or wait if you can wait. The R7 or the a7iv might be the better canon/Sony value proposition cameras anyway than what's available now
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
Im doing all my thoughts around used lenses - rare for sony many available for canon and nikon because sony are 'newbs'
that was my point above - the 60mm macro Id probably only lose £50 in a year or two as long as I dont entagle it with cheese sandwich
that was my point above - the 60mm macro Id probably only lose £50 in a year or two as long as I dont entagle it with cheese sandwich
Samuel Dilworth
Well-known member
I wouldn’t expect it to be described as a pro video camera. Just a Z-series with powerful video features and capabilities – enough to undermine some of the reasons to buy a separate video camera at twice the price. That’s usually how these things go.
But yeah, it’s easy for a dilettante like me to make casual predictions. I wouldn’t base a business plan on it.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
Oh I thought you meant like an eng-style body with xlr inputs and internal ND or something.
Oh hmmm... "The R6 II's Raw video stream is sub-sampled: skipping pixels to deliver 4K output from its 6K sensor," per DP review
Re: used lenses - there are used FE lenses for most things that are older than a year. I got my tamron 70-180 used and the same site had a 17-28 and 28-75. ebay has numerous copies of the sony 85 1.8 and both versions of the 70-200 available used, per quick inspection. used sony 28-135's are abundantly available since it's been sold as a kit lens for years. but things like the sigma 24-70 which came out in december 2019 I only see one used copy on ebay right now. so it's a mixed bag but mostly available
Oh hmmm... "The R6 II's Raw video stream is sub-sampled: skipping pixels to deliver 4K output from its 6K sensor," per DP review
Re: used lenses - there are used FE lenses for most things that are older than a year. I got my tamron 70-180 used and the same site had a 17-28 and 28-75. ebay has numerous copies of the sony 85 1.8 and both versions of the 70-200 available used, per quick inspection. used sony 28-135's are abundantly available since it's been sold as a kit lens for years. but things like the sigma 24-70 which came out in december 2019 I only see one used copy on ebay right now. so it's a mixed bag but mostly available
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
A little update.
So Ive had a virtual love in with the Red Kimodo. But one still needs to blag the ND, dont have proper audio or well documented AF (although it sometimes looks quite nice)
Too many blags so I moved on.
Generally I find all the cameras Ive been considering awkward and basicaly horrid, while having some decent specs on paper. I dont want to be doing dual sound or building the camera every time I put it away or or or. I just want a camera.
The YT fraternity never unbox a camera and describle the plastic on the handle (the FS7 handle made me feel ill to touch - hard cold and cheap) or that the HDMI will be instantly broken as it sticks out.
The C70 is wide and wider with wires hanging out of the side ready to snag on everything, the FS7 handle audio fail and the Komodo too much of a blag.
Which leads me to the C200, 300 ,500
I never thought I would have found the 'christmas tree'* cameras to be the most elegant. That is a poor world in terms of design. But compared to the other dogs dinners they are indeed elegant (Komodo is moste elegant if they added ND and didnt have the audio poke out the side) (and didnt need me to get an HDMI/sdi box to run my animon/dp5)(and power them)
So C200-300-500 - quite simply after a year of battered finances Im looking for a used C200.
I played with the C200 for 2mins once.. and like the viewfinder for a sunny solution.. and found the AF to pop onto what I want (I didnt test on anything more than a couple of people having a chat) - I liked it although the 'for amaters who never worked all day' 70-200 2.8 is loony heavy.. 70-200F4 for the pros.
Some notes..
Does AF work in all framerates
I guess 420 footage is in reality OK for HD delivery to clients who 'just want a video' - the kind of people I deliver FS7hd, + gh4 + gopro + EX1 soup.
Is there cache record
Is there sound in S+Q
Can I poke one mic into two channels at different levels.
There is some mild chance that I see one with a 18-80 - im guessing super handy if priced right or Ill be checking the 15-85 F11 plastic fantastic.
I feel a little off the curve going for EF not RF but that gives space for boosters.. and I note arri feel EF is ubiqutous enough to be promoing a new adapter. EF is the bargain AF line - that I can acess the excotica from my work chum.
This might work, thinking what to sell.. FS7, EX1, Z6 20-35 70-200 400 2.8 and others could go. Then get some sort of RF 'DSLR' in the future with a ND lens adapter.
* I consider a typically dress C300/100 with all the audio up high to look like a christmas tree - in the worst possible manner.
So Ive had a virtual love in with the Red Kimodo. But one still needs to blag the ND, dont have proper audio or well documented AF (although it sometimes looks quite nice)
Too many blags so I moved on.
Generally I find all the cameras Ive been considering awkward and basicaly horrid, while having some decent specs on paper. I dont want to be doing dual sound or building the camera every time I put it away or or or. I just want a camera.
The YT fraternity never unbox a camera and describle the plastic on the handle (the FS7 handle made me feel ill to touch - hard cold and cheap) or that the HDMI will be instantly broken as it sticks out.
The C70 is wide and wider with wires hanging out of the side ready to snag on everything, the FS7 handle audio fail and the Komodo too much of a blag.
Which leads me to the C200, 300 ,500
I never thought I would have found the 'christmas tree'* cameras to be the most elegant. That is a poor world in terms of design. But compared to the other dogs dinners they are indeed elegant (Komodo is moste elegant if they added ND and didnt have the audio poke out the side) (and didnt need me to get an HDMI/sdi box to run my animon/dp5)(and power them)
So C200-300-500 - quite simply after a year of battered finances Im looking for a used C200.
I played with the C200 for 2mins once.. and like the viewfinder for a sunny solution.. and found the AF to pop onto what I want (I didnt test on anything more than a couple of people having a chat) - I liked it although the 'for amaters who never worked all day' 70-200 2.8 is loony heavy.. 70-200F4 for the pros.
Some notes..
Does AF work in all framerates
I guess 420 footage is in reality OK for HD delivery to clients who 'just want a video' - the kind of people I deliver FS7hd, + gh4 + gopro + EX1 soup.
Is there cache record
Is there sound in S+Q
Can I poke one mic into two channels at different levels.
There is some mild chance that I see one with a 18-80 - im guessing super handy if priced right or Ill be checking the 15-85 F11 plastic fantastic.
I feel a little off the curve going for EF not RF but that gives space for boosters.. and I note arri feel EF is ubiqutous enough to be promoing a new adapter. EF is the bargain AF line - that I can acess the excotica from my work chum.
This might work, thinking what to sell.. FS7, EX1, Z6 20-35 70-200 400 2.8 and others could go. Then get some sort of RF 'DSLR' in the future with a ND lens adapter.
* I consider a typically dress C300/100 with all the audio up high to look like a christmas tree - in the worst possible manner.
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morgan_moore
Major Contributor
Good to know - indeed Il check out the mass.. but IM guessing lighter than the FS7. Edit 1.4kg vs 2kg for fs7
Mass will fluctuate for example my FS7 I always run a speedbooster and often need the DP6 (and batt) because the monitor is so poor
How does the AF fail. Im not interested in loony tunes good .. just sort of solid?
Interview MCU with a 70-200 head or hands to head
70-200 walk towards
100 macro on a slider pointed at a product (nikon z6 https://vimeo.com/315748218)
Football palyer runs down the wing , HFR, 400 2.8
How is the codec bad.. for 'people who want a (hd) video (for YT facebook)' - people who would accept the Z6, FS7 in HD or GH4 - my studio work I do raw.
First of all AF is not reliable to the point that I only use it to track subjects walking towards the camera and then it often works. Sometimes it just changes focus to something else so not 100% either. For sit down interviews it hunts and looses focus as soon as the subject blinks or turn their head. At least if you want to be creative with lighting. Do a flat face lighting and it can work a bit better.
The 8-bit codec is a bit rubbish when you sit down and grade it but in the final delivery it doesn't show as MP4 just makes things smoother. Slow motion uses less bitrate.
Compare the C200 to the FS7 and the later looks much better with a very clean image. I compared my FS5 to the C200 and they are more similar in 8-bit but there's a finer noise on the FS5 and the FS7 is much cleaner. Then again these things only matter to you when you edit and grade. Corporate clients don't care as almost any camera these days can be made to look good.
To me at least I rank FS5 to be the best camera for handheld work (soon to be replaced by FX6) and FS7 does everything (except AF) very well as an all rounder. I only use C200 when I'm provided with one as the only option.
The 8-bit codec is a bit rubbish when you sit down and grade it but in the final delivery it doesn't show as MP4 just makes things smoother. Slow motion uses less bitrate.
Compare the C200 to the FS7 and the later looks much better with a very clean image. I compared my FS5 to the C200 and they are more similar in 8-bit but there's a finer noise on the FS5 and the FS7 is much cleaner. Then again these things only matter to you when you edit and grade. Corporate clients don't care as almost any camera these days can be made to look good.
To me at least I rank FS5 to be the best camera for handheld work (soon to be replaced by FX6) and FS7 does everything (except AF) very well as an all rounder. I only use C200 when I'm provided with one as the only option.
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
Yep Im sort of going through the YT back catalogue of reviews.
Seems to me that it hits a lot of simple things.. ND, XLR and no wires hanging out the side
Seems to me that it hits a lot of simple things.. ND, XLR and no wires hanging out the side
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To reply to the first paragraph, AF doesn't act like that if you expose a face so the skin is in 30 - 70 range and AF set to face only. You can then pull it down in post for your daily dose of tenebroso.
I don't understand first part of second paragraph. Slow motion uses the same bitrate.
Please post your comparison of FS5 and FS7 with C200 where C200 looks worse.
C200 can be configured on so many different levels, but also crippled if you don't know what are you doing (or doing it on purpose).
Properly exposed CRL recording can go long way. Not Arri long, but long.
Under controlled environment, I like to lower ISO to dig deeper in shadows and pull them up in post, just like you would do with film.
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
Shooting today (on the GH4)
The HDMI into the shogun was doing one so we knocked it on the head and recorded internal.
Director on his knees looking a 1x2inch playback on an upside down rigged camera jammed in the middle of a forest of wires and lights.
Another 'note to self' - dont have an A cam that doesnt have SDi
Another win for C200 vs C70.
The HDMI into the shogun was doing one so we knocked it on the head and recorded internal.
Director on his knees looking a 1x2inch playback on an upside down rigged camera jammed in the middle of a forest of wires and lights.
Another 'note to self' - dont have an A cam that doesnt have SDi
Another win for C200 vs C70.
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
Yes let me remind us/me.
I decided that the top handle audio was too much of a major fail.
Others considered the A73 a better implimentation of AF and HFR (while no ND, XLR or SDi) and generally a better camera within the 'class' of design (a stills cam form)
FS7 and A7Siii is an appleaing combo Im considering? But no SDI on the 'mounting'** camera hurts
Others think that the (sony FX6) AF is 'just very good' and it is worth revisiting and checking at a store.. 'because AF is a major reason to abandon the FS7 get the best AF possible'
The AF is not good for product (?) which is a chunk of my 'I cant touch the camera*' work.
Overall moving to sony 'short flange' lenses is not that appealing..
-sony lenses are costly (except the 18-80 is v expensive vs the 28-135 sony)
EF lenses will fit EF cameras, Arri cameras, (and nikon and sony) have space for rear mounted ND on RF body dslrs and are cheap. I also have access to EF glass from 14 to 400.
Even a 'sony dream' setup of FX6 and A7s3 would not have ND on the latter cam. A canon Cxx and canon R body set would have ND.
The canon 18-80 is a bit of a worry.. being S35 which on may consider 'a format of the past' although CRoumours suggest some S35 Rmount canons may be in the offing.
Loss of slomo (C200=4k60 and 120HD 8bit) would be painful as im guessing the Sony 240 is good.. but 'real slo mo' starts at 500-1000FPS and would come from a rental or future camera?
But Im not 100% convinced by the above!?
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*im mainly interested in AF when 'I cant touch the camera' because..
-Its doing macro on a digital slider doing product
-its on a gimbal and Im solo shooting
**SDI is mainly a falback when the camera is remoted mounted and one wil be a ble to run a cable (even though I prefer radio remote animon system) - Ive have had the animon be troublesome even though it is generally good.
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