Run away from nikon?

The 28-135 does not trombone. Rotating filter tray in a matte box for pola? It will take a screw in pola too.

I wish the 28-135 had higher magnification. But I think it's similar on the 18-80. I wish it could also do a crash zoom, but not a huge priority for me. You can do a pretty quick zoom anyway

Atomos shogun on movi pro for audio recording and RAW option on FX6?

For A7SIII- what is your worry about using HDMI to SDI conversion? Issues with the HDMI signal from fs7?
 
A few concepts in play here.

I was just saying that vari ND and actual pola to kill reflections have not been tried by me.. and some of my car work involves killing reflections with pola.

THe 18-80 is 27-120 FF equiv - basically the same - those would both be good on the movi as I guess much longer than 135FF is hard to point.

Atomos shogun on movi pro for audio recording and RAW option on FX6?


Im not sure this is on my radar.. external recording scares me !

For A7SIII- what is your worry about using HDMI to SDI conversion? Issues with the HDMI signal from fs7?


My animon is HDMI anyway 90% I use hdmi. I just find a long SDI lead with no converters, L brackets, wireless hops, hdmi splitters, hdmi extenders is the safest fallback for remote monitoring when that hdmi house of cards falls over.

My current house of cards is roughly..

FS7 hdmi -> hdmi splitter ->>DP502 and Animon --> reciever --> shogun --> TV logic 24in.

SDI->Shogun is a great backstop.

====

What I am seeing here is that 28-135/matte box option working for the A7s. But im still thinking being stuck on one lens, while great for the hard core documentary is a little restrictive for me.

I dont know how it is for close focus.. the mega bucks CN17 wasnt good enough when I used it so I spent all day swaping between CN17 and macro. I can imagine the 28-135 does clse focus like my EX1.
 
I only use the 28-135 for doc situations, for gast coverage situations, or when I need a servo zoom.

When I have a bit more time, I can use primes. When I need to go very wide, I have an 18 and a 12. To go long or for shallow DOF or its nice close focus, I have tamron 70-180.

You could potentially pull off the camera and slap on extension rings to get more magnification on the 28-135. If you're using the tripod collar to mount the 28-135, it would be an easy affair. Although it'll mess your balance up.

I guess I'd say that if you're in a situation where you cant afford to change both a filter and a lens at once, then you're probably in good hands staying on the 28-135. (Theres also clear image zoom to get a 1.5x crop for macro. Higher resolution bodies will give you even more to make up for the low magnification of the 28-135)

And if you have more time for lenses, you can deal with filters, rod length, etc

The other nice thing of course about the 28-135 is it maintains balance across the zoom range. It stays balanced on my Ronin-S from 28-100 and then becomes slightly back-heavy from 100-135. But it's worlds better than my tromboning lenses which are very back heavy at the wide end and then very front heavy at the telephoto end
 
Sam - just read quickly through this thread again...
My first thought is keep your FS7. I know it's not perfect, but then no camera is. And not sure you gain much with something like C200. fs7 seems it does 80% or more of your jobs effectively (that's my guestimation - only you can try to evaluate what that actual % is based on the last few years with it).

As for the A7siii? Lots to consider and ponder over. Sony p**s me off with the no 4K in s35 - and no internal ND - but then you have to $ up for those in other small form factors from other msg's (actually perhaps only the C70 has internal ND in that mirrorless form??). And maybe ticks me off more some of the features (like touch tracking) seem to be left off the Fx6.
I just did some testing yesterday with my a7s3 - using my Sony 18 -110 servo zoom (made for S35). Using Sony's CIZ does allow for s35 lenses. So maybe less glass investment - for some jobs. (but not those with AF needs) Most of s35 still lenses that I've tested need a 1.3 or 1.4 zoom into to get rid of the vignetting. But that 18 -110 now becomes approx 25 - 154 on FF, and still seems pretty good optically - although you do give up servo zoom with CIZ. My Rok 12mm becomes a 17 on the FF.
It's already driving me crazy that the clear image zoom automatically gets turned off when you turn the camera off. So you have to go back and reset it - but the menu system can make this quicker... maybe FW update could solve this... but will Sony listen?

But the image from this little camera is pretty sweet - and you'll prefer shooting Slog3cine on it then you do on your FS7 (because of LUTs, WB & ISO's) IMO...
 
If not having 4K S35 is a bugaboo, you might wait for the A7IV, A7RV, or A9III. If they all have uncropped 4K60p in 10-bit, they're each a contender for me. Although the A9III will be an expensive mirrorless camera and it's certainly not a guarantee that any of them will have 4K120p if you need it.

Of course, the Canon R7 may appear soon as well and could be interesting if it doesn't suffer from overheating. (But not interesting for me since I've already thrown my lot in with Sony.)
 
Mark.

THanks for reading. Yep.. My FS7 does not have anything that makes it worse than yesterday.

I suppose I work in two formats.. 'in house production' and 'day player'

For 'in house production' (Im DP/director, often editor) my typical setup would be FS7 on sticks/shoulder and Nikon Z6 on Movi picking up coveralls. Thats all good

For 'day player' (Im hired for a few specific shots, download the card and go home) Im basically doing gimbal and its not really good enough to be shooting 8bit nikon - its too funky for most producers (however good in reality) so the FS7 goes on the gimbal and the Z6 stays at home.

Here the FS7 starts to fall over because its bloody heavy on the gimbal and doesnt have any AF which requires (therefore) a remote focus (I have that) and a puller (costs money) and two or three functioning monitors (problematic something always craps out). The FS7 is too heavy on the Movi to be used with any dicko college DP cine glass (dont they love it and the renal house alyways do it cheap (cos the pros are nabbing the parfocal zooms))

All this starts to make my 'day player' offer stressful. Even the nikon on the gimbal is not great because im missing 'the crucial lens' 24-xx and getting by on primes or my shi)tshow 18-70 5.6 DX (crop sensor)

In general my nikkon Z6 has no decent Movi lens, nikon offer - 24-105, 24-70 or 24-200 - all have excellent focus and cost about £1000, Im about to buy one of them.

Or am I ?? Hense the thread.

Do I really want to put £1000 into a 24-xx lens on a 'dead' system.. ? Buy a 24-70AF that doesnt work on your A-cam or even your next A cam??

(say I were to go from FS7 to FX6 in the future)

So rather than do that maybe there is a different view.. chop (trade in) everything in and plug into one system (canon or sony) focussed around a new low mass gimbal friendly 10bitAF ND cine camera.

And have that A cam small enough to work on the gimbal, my 'day player' mode.

So FS7 good or bad could be collateral damage in that change. Unless the route is A7s and FS7 with some AF sony glass.

That leave 'day payer' offering with a mirrorles which is a bit painful, whereas having a C200 seems less painful.

So looking at it another way.. Id be upgrading my gimbal cam the Z6 by swapping it for the C200, just the cost of that would mean losing the FS7 (I guess) making me a 'one camera' camera person. Id sure keep something for Broll and backup I have GH4, EX1, and the Nikon but some of them should go!

Lost!
 
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IN a producers head.. "this Movi op bloke. He'se got a C200 and some canon zooms and primes, that camera does Ok raw that basically chops with our alexa. We could rent another Alexa (mini) for the gimbal or go with his C200 and save a few quid"

Again the C200 would swap with a rental C300iii or 500ii if the client wants (to pay) they are basically the same shape and wires, batts lenses etc.

Its the cheapest cam in the big boys club????

Conversly Sony doesnt seem to have a line through levels of production. Venice shoots probably dont even look at the FX9 - they are completely different infrastructures.

Maybe Im talking bs.
 
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If that's true about preferentially mixing C200 raw with Alexa then that sounds like an advantage there

Otherwise it sounds like you should lean towards an fx6/a7siii kit. When you're losing the FX6 handle to go on movi because a mirrorless isn't good enough, syncing audio is probably not a dealbreaker. (Then again, maybe not being able to do exactly what they want is a dealbreaker...) When you're in the (currently) fs7 on sticks, z6 in gimbal situation, you could then keep the handle on the FX6 and have no issues with audio. The A7SIII is a great gimbal cam. The FX6 is very lightweight which will make you happy on gimbal too. I wouldn't discount the usefulness of eND when the camera is in a hard to reach place.

And generally going forward, I feel like Sony offerings are cheaper than canon. Fx9<c500mk2. Fx6<c300mk3. You may continue to save money, I dunno
 
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Half cages from Smalllrig on the Z6 and a Ninja V gets you locking hdmi both ends and 10bit log or Prores raw if you pay the Nikon service fee for the Prores. All up about £900 max
 
Yep- ideally another £900 down the nikon hole after a £900 z zoom lens - £1800 further is heavy into the ideal nikon system.
Nija are pretty rubbish on a Movi.

To complete my current nikon setup I at least need a 24-xx Z zoom and a cage, and ideally the prores system

Not that isn’t a capable camera system - it is - I really like my Z6 and that 'my' a/c has one too and my other (northern) chum who Bcams for me on occasion has one as well. From stills Im decades into the nikon tribe.

Having £££ in nikon is all a bit oddball and not really perusing a logic I can follow when ideally I want future 'A' to be an AF ND XLR cinema camera sharing the same native AF lenses.

Theere is one thing. If you are swing A and B cams they all need lenses.. so even if I went canon I might end up needing 2 70-200, in which case why not one of them my current nikon! ! !

Lost
 
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Looking further into no audio inputs on fx6....so strange....doesnt seem to be any way to pipe it in

I would get a shogun 7 which has lemo audio input and then you could record ProRes raw or ProRes and get your audio that way. You can still record internally so no worries if something happens with the external. And now you have benefit of ProRes raw when you want it. What was your concern about external recording again?
 
I appreciate everyone going with me on this journey of swinging a cat!

Im not going to be doing recorders or wires or cages. (or dual battery systems)

The C200 was a radical cam.. in that unlike previous canons they put the XLR into the body. (unaffordable to me C500 and C300 have followed)

Wih the EVF you can just slap on a 17-55 and a shotgun and go shoot, maybe even leaving screen, sidehandle and tophandle at home. The same stripdown drops onto a Movi Pro.

Well placed SDI and HDMI allow one to build it into a crew tool giving remote monitoring when that is required. With no wires sticking into your ear or the side spar of the Movi or being bust when in your bag.

Its not ideal in that it has poor HFR, and HDMI and SDI dont work together - but beyond that I cant see much wrong (sure the 10bit thing sucks)

Here I am FS7 and kit lens in Zambia - side handle EVF and waterproof 'Tesco' bag :) The weather was going from full monsoon to bright sun.

This isnt a bad rig.. at least it is simple.
See in the sun and ND are covered.

zambia2.JPG
 
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Here are a couple of pics very rough around the Movi Pro dimentsion. I think demonstrating that any fungle (wires, splitters etc) will cause space problems.

Here the grey block is the C70 nearly filling the movi cage with HDMI poking out right.

komodo1.JPG

Here we see a kimodo (very tidy) with an Atomos SDI to HDMI converter which woud enable use of my animon transmitter off the gimbal.

komodo2.JPG
 
Fx6 is a very nice camera aside from the audio issue

I dont know your clientele, but once I rented 2 c300mk2's for a shoot for a doc producer (from England). He liked canon over Sony and wanted me to buy a C300mk2 instead of FS7. I asked him what he thought about C200 and he pooh poohed it due to 8-bit. But it was interviews/b-roll shooting and he probably didnt want to deal with RAW for interviews. (I bought fs7 anyway. Most of my clients like FS7 and many are not as camera-specific as he was)

Obviously, lots of people get on fine with the C200 and supposedly even the 8-bit is robust. It would probably pair nicely with a future mirrorless camera

Choose what to lose I guess
 
My clientells is either dumbass producers/DPs who hire me with the Movi -they learned at school that sony suck, alexa is good five years in they know canon raw might do BMC is good too. They never tested any of this, like you should do at school, but just got it off the bongos at BSC shows, from the Arri rep or from Youpube.

Those that say Arri with £100k of anamorphics look better than an FS7 are right. Everyone else is wrong. All other cameras look the same. FS7 FX9 C200,300,probably even Z6 and NEX5n.

Or my clientelle is me delivering a video shot and produced in our house , we can use a Nex5 if we want just gotta come up with the goods.

I know the c200 8bit is fine for it interviews and if we do another job like a hotel big room shots or high end studio macro, raw is what to use.

I asked him what he thought about C200 and he pooh poohed it due to 8-bit. Yep this is a worry. We are basically trying to predict the bongos.. not actually use our own technical knowledge to arrive at what is appropriate for the job.

I guess my thought is Im offering a Movi with a canon/red/arri mini/fx6 sized hole which you can provide.. or use my C200!
 
ahalpert said:
This is interesting- did you see that C200mk2 is coming in April? That might be a better buy or if anything push down prices on used c200's https://www.canonrumors.com/the-canon-cinema-eos-c200-mark-ii-will-arrive-in-april-cr3/
Click to expand...

Super useful to see that. Ill be on CR pressing f5 now. Thank you.

I had a vague concept and yes it will affect the prices or might be the camera for me.

ONe does wonder what C300iii deserves $10g if they do C200ii for $7g with the same bells and whistles. What bells does the C300iii have Ive forgotten!
 
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At the very least maybe 4k120p? The rumor only mentions 4k60p. which implies it might have a weaker processor (which one would expect). Other differences who knows. The rumor is light on details
 
Im not sure about 120p

50/60 gives enough smooth to handhold a 70-200

actual slomo probably starts at 500.

but of course one thing about the C70 and probably others is 120 and the FX6 has the tempting 240 (if you can get it in the pal menu)
 
If it's like the 240 on the A7SIII I'm pretty sure it's worse than the 120 and more artifact-y or moire-y (or whatever as a result of not full-scanning) whereas the 120 is legit. But the 240 is still probably better than a poke in the eye. But flawless 4k 120p vs flawed hd 240... plus if the freefly wave is good and available it should be a pretty affordable rental and take you way up there in fps
 
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