Run away from nikon?

M

morgan_moore

Major Contributor
The new two C70 and FX6 both really shine with a couple of AF lenses.

Im at a point where I need to be spending a bit of money making my Z6 into a better Bcamera - get cage, 24-105? or z 24-200 both £1000


I realise I really only have one current AF lens.. the nikkor70-200 with my nikon Z6 - now that wont work with sony or canon. (yes I have AF nikkor 20-35 and 400 2.8 and 14 2.8 but they are old and dont work with even current nikon cameras - yes they work with D1 and D600 but not new nikons)

Some evidence says I should forget that lens and chop everything in. (OK so I keep my collection of vintage manual nikkor glass which fits anything)

Maybe I should even chop in those (AFS?) lenses (400, 20-35, 14 2.8!) Im scared now.

Id need to start shooting stills on a CaSony - I used to have a 5d2 and could do stills with it. The sony stills cameras Ive had (nex5) was revolting to work with. Im generally scared of sony stills cams. Obviously Id like my stills cam to be a walk around and Bcam video too.

Im a fan of 24-105 50 70-200F4 combo for my primary lens set and im happy with getting them used.

I quickly knocked this up.. I wonder what people think,

My feeling is the FX9 is better specced than on paper than the canon, but probably put together in a bit more of a crappy manner - the grown up would buy the canon (??)

Ive been nikon since 1989. There would be pain too as I just bought the Z6 but maybe I need to eat that.

BinNikon.JPG
 
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The other option is to look at going with Canon R system stills cam and lenses.. probably more costly but more future proof and better mass/Tstop ratio. Or go with that sony stills cam that does 10 bit - making it a great B cam.

In my office is Paul - canon stills user - with 1DX a few 5d and lenses from 14-400 2.8 that I could access when needed.
 
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I honestly don't think the question is about which brand you go for. I used to have both Panasonic, Canon and Sony but I decided to go for one brand to make it simple.
Now I only use Sony in my line of work be it video or stills and I have no regrets. Three things swinged me to Sony. First the popularity of the FS7, second the great AF in Sony still cameras and now their newest video cameras also. Last the one mount system which makes lens choices much easier.
 
So you agree that it is becoming important to be with one brand.. and that it should not be nikon and might be sony :)

--

SOny and canon A cams (C70 FS6) = good.

Canon B cam .. DSLR with possible ND

Sony B cam.. DSLR with 10 bit.

Id take ND but then one is locked out of R lenses
 
As far as video no one asks for Nikon right. I never have someone ask for a Canon after the DSLR revolution either but as soon as you mention FS7 you're in. That pretty much tells me all I need. As for stills shooting, who cares which system you are using?

I used DSLR for video shooting when it was the craze but these days I'm done with it as I think a dedicated video camera makes my work much easier and reliable. That's what it comes down to.
 
From what I hear, you can get good AF with EF lenses on the R system. Then you also get that vari ND adapter.

I also hear that the R system has better AF than the EF systems generally.

Personally, i dont think you need to consolidate into one system unless you're planning on using AF. Which it sounds like you're planning on using.

I love the A7SIII but I don't think you would enjoy its interface. Buttons are a bit dinky and fussy. Also, low res for stills. But I dont shoot stills with it and often have it on a gimbal anyway.

You have access to EF glass, big plus. EF glass is cheap. There are cheap 3rd party lenses for Sony, some of which do better AF than Sony. The Tamron 70-180 f/2.8 is amazing. It's very light (doesn't even have a tripod collar, for better or for worse) and the AF is fastest/best of all e mount telephoto zooms.

The only reason I didnt buy an R5 was because of overheating in 4K60p. Sometimes I have to shoot that continuously. Otherwise I would have made do with the pixel binned non-overheating modes.

The FX6 and A7SIII have an amazingly clean ISO 12800. I have no compunctions about going there.

The canon 18-80 is a better performer than equivalent Sony lenses, it seems. But not cheap. My sony 28-135 was cheap.

Overall I think you want to go canon but skip buying R lenses for now.

Going Sony has advantages too, but considering your interests (good eng zoom, good buttons interface), I think the winner is canon.

Sony wins for low-light and for cost savings (part of the reason I went there - the bodies are always a bit cheaper than the canon equivalent, there are fabulous and fabulously cheap 3rd party e mount lenses from sigma/tamron/samyang although they'll probably show up in R mount eventually). Although I guess the biggest reason I went there was that the A7SIII actually worked. But I feel somewhat vindicated by how good the FX6 looks and will buy that eventually to replace my fs7
 
Al - thanks for thoughts. Im trying to make sense.

Yes I want AF.. not because I cant focus.. but because I cant focus on a gimbal, or jib or if im directing or operating a different camera.

So C70 and booster=full frame and ND, R6 and dropin filter = full frame and ND.. both need EF lenses... which are cheap (and I have access to 400 and others cheap)


Overall I think you want to go canon but skip buying R lenses for now.


The only thing is if those R lenses are going to have much better AF and offer some interesting new designs (17-200 f4)
 
I dunno if it's MUCH better AF. NorBro seemed to think it was better AF, but I couldn't tell if it was because it was marginally faster, because the behavior was smoother/better or failed more rarely, or if it was because it could handle more modes like animal eye af or something.

Autofocus is really complicated to evaluate and compare because there are so many variables and functions and you cant run proper repeated tests anyway.

My vote would be to test out the system with the adapter and ef glass and just see if you're happy with it. Good enough is certainly good enough. And you could always add an R lens with screw-in ND later. You're not forbidding yourself from doing that.

The R6 has even more screwed up overheating than the R5. I guess the new firmware has improved it. I think it really depends on how long you're going to be shooting with it. I didnt have the nerve to go that route. My A7SIII threw an overheat warning a few weeks back and my heart skipped a beat. But I had the wifi smartphone control on, and the warning went away after I turned that off. Overheating is stressful/scary but I havent had an issue with the A7SIII otherwise. I forget where the R6 has landed now with record limits from heat....so many modes and firmware updates. But as long as it can do what you need, I think it's a good buy. I considered the R6 carefully. Only bit of a bummer besides heat is the rolling shutter isn't very fast

But I suppose you're buying into a system more than just a camera. Hopefully the R6 (or a7siii) wouldn't be the last camera you buy anyway so maybe the issues are a temporary pita
 
I'm (slowly) moving all-Sony, simply for simplicity. Going all-Canon would be equally beneficial. Past couple years, I've been trying to stay as flexible as possible with Nikon-mount glass and adapters aplenty, but then mixing in a few native lenses here and there and then endlessly dithering about which cam/lens package to use with which shoot because they all have different strengths and weaknesses. Futzing with the 'stuff' is really taking my brain away from really getting into the material and interpreting it as capably as I could. Then, there's the low-level nightmare of bringing in hired help and talking them through the convoluted 'system' I've been employing...

A7S3, A7R4 for photos (or B/C cam, it's actually an excellent video camera despite 8-bittitude), FX6 or 9 (soon), Sony GM or Tamron zoom trinity, three primes, and maybe a servo zoom for when things have to get newsy. I can haul those in on most any job and not have to explain exactly what combo I need when directing an AC, or devise some convoluted rig to swap a hybrid camera from cinema to run/gun to photo mode as needs change.

Perhaps it's all a pipedream, and I should instead spend some time refining and simplifying my convoluted lighting package :P

I dunno. Life is hard. Not really, but a little.
 
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I can see that viewers clearly do see it as really even a question.

From a blank board Sony or Canon are obvious.

The only argument against that is FS7 and Z6 make a good pair and I own them and they are paid for.

Canon or Sony - I suppose its up to me to consider which is least bad.

Im not clear on that. Im very happy with the FS7 shape and the fx6 is just smaller and better, but the canon might be small enough to be smaller*! .. clearly I dont know what im talking about.

*not need a walkabout camera too.
 
I am in the middle of a similar choice as my 1DX III has been at Canon CPS for two months and just heard that
they are sending it back with essentially the same defect I sent it in to repair.

Between Canon and Sony ...

FX6 Raw and SDI

C70 Color Ollie Kenchington loves the DGO sensor and color in C70/C300III
miniXLR on body
No RAW but the DGO may obviate the need for that.
Perhaps a bit sharper due to downsampled 4K
Much better menu system

A7SIII In camera noise reduction that cannot be turned off. Heat issues exist
but only for those in Subtropical temps.

R6 ... may not be the best as it appears there is no mode that avoids the timer.
I recently had to rent a R5 and found that in 4K All-I mode ... to an external recorder I
could record all day .... just dont record on camera. There is a Long GOP mode that will
allow longer recording internally without the timer cutting the camera off. With the R5 the 8K is
truly gorgeous and has some of the best stills I have seen from Canon ...

The AF with the C70 and R5 is on par with Sony but the Manual Focus assist is brilliant ...
I have three Sigma Cine FF primes and would rather use the Canon MF assist than any other.

I do think that CFexpress B cards are great ... smallish, fast but pricey at this point.

No bad choices but I doubt that waiting a year will bring much new to the table ... seems like both
Canon and Sony unloaded a lot of new tech this year.
 
And, and ... there may be a new Sony camera announcement in a few weeks. (their pressers stream is on the 11th).
 
Sam - it's always hard to recommend something like this - especially to essentially a stranger. While I enjoy your posts & samples of your work - it is you who understands your business and clients better than I (or surely nearly anyone else on this forum).

I can say this. I too am an FS7 owner / op - since the first month of its release. It has served me well and grown my base of clients, but most importantly, it has paid for itself many times over. Does it still occasionally p*ss me off because of some silly handicap with LUTS or other absurdities? Absolutely. Am I fan boy of Sony? Nope. But I've been doing this long enough to know that Canon, Panny (haven't owned Nikon, BM or Arri) etc are really no different when it comes to delivering cameras that always come up short in some way.
It seems the "new model" is for mfg's to try & push us to own multiple cams. And depending upon the kind / style / scope of work that you do... that may be a decent path to follow. But then, as others have said, deciding upon a lens mount & what glass you are going to use moving forward, seems should be a large factor in your decision. After all, any thing you decide can likely make pretty pictures. But if you're like me, you'll live with that decision for some time, as switching back & forth on brands can become a huge PITA.
Good luck with whatever you decide. I feel your growing pains.
 
Well, maybe you don't need to upgrade if you're happy with your current cameras. I like Nikon - I like the colors, the camera designs, the lenses (although I don't think there are good cheap options available in Z mount yet) and the legacy. It's just that they haven't had good mirrorless video until now (do they have 10-bit internal yet?) and it doesn't seem like they're going to release a proper video camera. If they did, it would probably take a couple generations to get good. And the company may not survive the next decade.

You might lose money buying more Nikon gear now and reselling later, but maybe those losses would be offset by sony/canon price reductions and used gear availability in the future.

It sounds like docmoore had a good experience with the R5 recording externally FWIW. Also FWIW I don't think Canon has a real color advantage anymore - I think both Sony and Canon are viable options. S-Cinetone looks pretty sexy as a SOOC profile. It doesn't exist on the A7SIII but I'm happy with the colors I can get from it.
 
markfpv said:
Sam - it's always hard to recommend something like this - especially to essentially a stranger. While I enjoy your posts & samples of your work - it is you who understands your business and clients better than I (or surely nearly anyone else on this forum).

I can say this. I too am an FS7 owner / op - since the first month of its release. It has served me well and grown my base of clients, but most importantly, it has paid for itself many times over. Does it still occasionally p*ss me off because of some silly handicap with LUTS or other absurdities? Absolutely. Am I fan boy of Sony? Nope. But I've been doing this long enough to know that Canon, Panny (haven't owned Nikon, BM or Arri) etc are really no different when it comes to delivering cameras that always come up short in some way.
It seems the "new model" is for mfg's to try & push us to own multiple cams. And depending upon the kind / style / scope of work that you do... that may be a decent path to follow. But then, as others have said, deciding upon a lens mount & what glass you are going to use moving forward, seems should be a large factor in your decision. After all, any thing you decide can likely make pretty pictures. But if you're like me, you'll live with that decision for some time, as switching back & forth on brands can become a huge PITA.
Good luck with whatever you decide. I feel your growing pains.
Click to expand...

I post to see if there is someone else who presents a clear logic.. or at least something that broaden my thought pool.

Right now Im at a wall with my small camera (the z6) I need to buy a runNgun lens (24-105, 24-200?) and maybe a marcro or 85 or something (a product lens) - also it needs a cage if it is going to meet certain of my requirements. Im at a point where my small cam needs £1000 spend.

So here I am with 70-200F4 and Z6 - what actually is that ! ? ! - and about to drop another £1000 into nikon and thinking - maybe I should just bail from nikon into a new system with lenses that with work with an AF video system.

THere isnt even anything wrong with the Z6 apart from it doesnt have lenses that would work on a AF video camera.

It is a good thought that that system doesnt even need to come now (I can use my FS7 for a year or more before re-evaluating AF, ND, XLR video)

And here is a new idea! From this thread and self thinking.

So I need a 24-105 for my Z6 and maybe a 100mm macro.. AND these lenses need to go on a AF video camera.. well Ive just found a nikkor Z to EF adapter!
https://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/fringer/ef-nz.htm

I could prep for swapping to canon in time when the FS7 gets even more ragged.

Ken wrote..
It's a sad time for Nikon when this fourth-party adapter lets me use my Canon lenses with better compatibility and range of lenses than Nikon's own FTZ adapter works with my Nikon lenses.

For instance, Nikon's 135mm f/2 DC AF-D can't autofocus on the FTZ on Nikon Z, while Canon's 135mm f/2 USM autofocuses great with this EF-NZ adapter.

Better than other brands of adapters, it's uncanny how my Canon lenses work as well on the Z cameras as they do natively on Canon's DSLRs. I don't lose any AF speed, and often they are faster than Nikon's own Z lenses which focus quietly, but not all that fast.
 
That is very interesting - I say go the EF lens on Nikon route. Makes good sense in the long-term.

Word of caution - Rockwell is a stills-only guy, right? If he didn't test the set-up in video then it may not work well in video. But you're definitely positioning yourself to make a painless jump to Canon later
 
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