Run away from nikon?

Really its chaos..

You know balancing..
HFR = no sound on the £6k camera but has sound on the £3k camera (! ?? !)
£3k camera.. 1/8 jack sound £6k camera.. no sound without handle
£3k camera.. AF touch screen for product.. £6k camera no touch sreen for product
but
£3k camera.. sitcky out HDMI, no ND.. purely for ams.. not even a paid for ND option (unlike cannon RF cams)
£3k camera has 'see in the sun EVF' £6k camera will be a build to 'see in the sun'

Obviously these variabe specs are driven not by technical possibility but by corporate chaos.

I think the C70 is excellent (and unflawed) for a solo op self dierector (package) camera.. but with sticky out HDMI its not good for being at the heart of a crew where client or puller or art department may need image.

No camera maker is delivering a truely desirable prooduct that will help an operator sleep well at night.

The C200 seems free of flaws although a little pedestrian in spec.
 
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Sounds like you dont like vari-nd?

What are the odds of just keeping the FX6 handle on all the time?

Right-angle hdmi adapter on A7SIII for less sticky-outy...run it through a monitor with sdi conversion and you can then run SDI out

I'd say go canon if the options are there. I would have stayed canon if the R5 or R6 didn't overheat. In 6 months, a year, or 2, they will probably have that overheat-free B/gimbal camera

Only downside of canon is if you're FF you cant use the 18-80 and there's no FF canon 28-135 equivalent. If you're S35 then you can have 18-80 and also an ND adapter but you'll be mucking up your FF focal lengths without a speedbooster. And it's either/or speedbooster or nd. I guess an 8K or 6K sensor would solve it. ND adapter for FF glass. S35 crop for 18-80
 
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Well vari ND I have my bum burned from the FS100 and Tiffen green cross hatch hell.. maybe I need to revisit?

Not to mention time wasted moving from lens A to lens B - can one ND the 28-135? (cheap appealing lens - could push me to sony! !)

With a Movi Pro the handle cant be kept on not enough height and cant get a vibe free build.
And the stock handle is slow to remove even if one is happy handle less.

My FS7 has arca top and bottom and is as happy being hung from a rig as mounted on one.. its lovely not to deal in upside down cameras.

--

FS7 in movi pro..
movi_1200_SMM8843.jpg
 
Right-angle hdmi adapter on A7SIII for less sticky-outy...run it through a monitor with sdi conversion and you can then run SDI out


Even this desciption hurts..
'Bill Ive got no signal'

OK maybe is the L HDMI adapter, or the first cable or the monitor cross conversion or the Animon has crashed or the lead from the animon receiver is playing up??

Im learning that just a wire from the camera can be a really good thing to fall back on.

The SDI is broken on my operator DP5 monitor because Small HD are cnuts and designed it bad. Id need a new monitor. I fancy a feelworld monitor but they dont cross convert.

--
A side note I never got the FS7 HDMI/Animon working at 24* (23.98?) P which left big egg on my face. It's to do with sonys magical PSF where the signal is interlaced and de-interlaced some how.. confusing monitors and reeking of 1995 tech still in use. Because of the PSF horror you also cant get the black magic EVF to work with sony cams.

I bet the FX6 is still PSF.

FS7/animom works fine at 25
 
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This was the build where I discovered that FS7/ANimon/24p dont work. The camera was not in the position to easily trouble shoot. You may also see.. 'just get a long SDI' would have worked

You might ask why I didnt try it first.. well that is because I only found out the frame rate 20 seconds before turnover!

20190318_181408_1200.jpg
 
I think what Im struggling with here is 'narrative'

There are other ways I could do business.. so I could become a grip/movi operator (have no cameras!).. and just demand to hang a rental arri mini as my preferred camera. I could then poke at the client who went with an FX6 and had refused the Mini.

(Im assuming the Mini gives good director vision - honsetly its 1a/c problem if it dont!)

At the moment all of these 'failed to deliver to directors monitor' fall on me - hell most ops dont even offer director vision

Crane job.. 24p didnt work (via animom)
Movi job in metal faraday building - animon didnt work and TV logic delivered special 4 bit look image (blocky)
Just last week.. FS7 long HDMI and shogun didnt work
and yesterday.. GH4 short HDMI and shogun didnt work

Thats all upsetting when you have..
$1k animom (chosen to copy Papert who is a pro)
$1k small HD
$1k shogun
$250 used TV logic 24in
(and archive of DP1 x2 and steadicam monitors including £2k SD transvideo and Small DP6 )

Countless cables and spare cables. And cages to take the cable mass off the connector.

So what is the narrative?

Am I not seeing it.. or is the C200 .. as the cheapest non sony 'pro' camera the best bet? HFR? rent a Miro or FS5 oddysey if you are poor.
 
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I have vari-ND on my 28-135. From freewell I think. Dont you only get cross hatching when you push past the maximum? The nd adaptor for RF-ef is same polarizer vari-ND tech so you'd be in the same boat there

External recorder with timecode into FX6 so you remove handle? You'll have to sync but it will be easy. My zoom f6 has timecode out + 6 inputs and is tiny. Or just a sync box and recorder is elsewhere

C200/18-80 might do you good but the AF is probably a far cry from the newest units.
 
If you try to find a flawless camera suited for everything it is a futile search. But if you accept the shortcomings and make do I think you will be a more satisfied operator.

As you already have an FS7 and as I understand it you make it work, but with some minor issues with monitors and other things, wouldn't it be better to get a monitor for instance that just works with the FS7? I've been using a SmallHD 702 Bright for years now and it just works. So instead of beating a camera to suit everything else pick things that works with the FS7 instead.
 
I have vari-ND on my 28-135. From freewell I think.

And it doesnt foul the shade?


Dont you only get cross hatching when you push past the maximum? The nd adaptor for RF-ef is same polarizer vari-ND tech so you'd be in the same boat there

Im assuming (assumption being the mother of all f_uck ups) that one can swap it out for plain old 3 or 6 filter ?


External recorder with timecode into FX6 so you remove handle? You'll have to sync but it will be easy. My zoom f6 has timecode out + 6 inputs and is tiny. Or just a sync box and recorder is elsewhere

Ive got a Sound Devices 702 recorder and am fairly handy at synch. Indeed maybe not too much of an issue .. its just embarrasing that the spanky new camera is a step back from the old one.. in fact a step back from the 5d2.


C200/18-80 might do you good but the AF is probably a far cry from the newest units.


I dont know.. when I tried the C200 is seemed to 'just work' .. I was just pointing it at stuff in a show (70-200) not having my talent dive in and out of frame while doing a rhumba.

This https://vimeo.com/322030392 is the z6 doing AF. You see my main problem is having a puller when one cant touch the camera (and all that sh_t has to actually be working .. geting a good AF motor signal in a motor (car) is not guarenteed unless you go arri or Preston for $20g) or had a AF motor on a 10foot lead.. ( or had an ether net app (??)). Also a human puller needs a good monitor and signal. Again in a car with sun reflections and physical vibes providing a puller (and operator and director) with decent vision is no easy one. I can tell you that doing a car rig with a functioning focus motor and two functioning monitors and a functioniing Mimic and a drift free Movi is a work of wonder. Every thing you can simplify helps avoid fail.

Also in that vid im using my focus motor to zoom, which is re-using the £1000 of kit.. I can tell you that zooming on bike/car/movi work is fooooking handy.. not because you want to zoom in shot.. but cos you want to reframe without stopping the motor (car)
 
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J.Brown said:
If you try to find a flawless camera suited for everything it is a futile search. But if you accept the shortcomings and make do I think you will be a more satisfied operator.

As you already have an FS7 and as I understand it you make it work, but with some minor issues with monitors and other things, wouldn't it be better to get a monitor for instance that just works with the FS7? I've been using a SmallHD 702 Bright for years now and it just works. So instead of beating a camera to suit everything else pick things that works with the FS7 instead.
Click to expand...

Im trying to follow your logic. I have a DP5 and it is a good operators monitor (but the SDI snapped) I love SMallHD GUI and lut support (the fs7 was a lut fail) .. the thing that doesnt work is SOny 24p PSF.. it works (thank god) with smallHD but not with animom transmitter and routing through the DP5 doesnt solve it I think???

The FS7 doesnt have AF which causes me probems with remote operation. it is also heavy which is problematic in remote/movi situations.

Im well aware to be considering that with an 18 on sticks on an interview Bcam/sound cam it does nice picture and has reliable power/xlr/nd and many other things - that is why pairing it with a trick camera (A73) is one of the options. That just collapses once on wants the 'trick camera' to be a 'set camera' and give the director picture and professional reliability.

Last week I did FS7 boring wide and NIkon Z6, 70-200 AF ECUs on a set of interviews. The FS7 did its job.. got the wide and the sound.. just the Shogun directors monitor was going jippo. The options for feeding Bcam to a monitor were minimal (My Tvlogic with run A/B if the cams are SDI)

Ill mull the futile search concept .. as I said I think 'my narrative' is off :)
 
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Aapert.
The bike vid above is with my Z6 and a borrowed (£1000) lens.. one I want to buy.. but thought it might be better not to go with nikon AF..but to swap systems.. the fucntion of this thread!!!!!
 
The vari nd on 28-135 is incompatible with shade so I ditched the shade. I have a French flag with flex arm I may try out, but I'm also very curious about the new Kuvrd universal lens hood. If it works, it could be cool

But if you'd be satisfied with a single strength ND, why not just use a clip on matte box and filter? Not as fast for lens changes as the RF nd adapter, but still

I haven't used the C200 so my AF knowledge is 2nd hand. For that biker shot I bet it would be fine, especially with a face (it does face af no?)

The FX6 should be pretty sweet....clean iso 12800...catalyst browse gyro stabilization....eND stepless adjustment...killer AF albeit minus the touch part. (Does fx6 have the same wifi wireless monitor as A7SIII? For some A7SIII ronin-s shooting I've been using a smartphone monitor and tapping to focus on it. It's not low latency or high res enough to be an operator monitor (plus it drops frames), but I can tap for focus without touching the camera. That could be cool in a car type situation. and it could be good enough for a director monitor. It's been reliable for me although it caused an overheat warning (not a shutdown) when I had it on for 3 hours straight
 
ND is a funny worlds.

I see the canon DLSR for Bcam, going to the park shooting a small profile doc you have a 17-55 and 70-200 and the ND is kept in the lens converter.

meaning you never have to swap ND and lens at the same time.

With the FF sony and 28-135 Id be commiting to keeping that lens on all day.. it doesnt trombone (does it?) so you could go with a rods or a clip on and swap 3 or 6

again you never get in a situation where you have a lens and a filter in your hand during a change. (you are not changing the lens)

Both work.

What doesnt IMO work is swapping a filter and a lens at the same time ie removing a filter, taking the lens off adding the new lens adding the filter.. is too slow and means dropped/scratched stuff. So working with A7s and two zooms is a duffer.

Also rods/boxes dont IMO work for a set of lenses of varying length (17-55, trombone and 70-200)unless you are working at cinema (not actuality) speeds ideally with an A/C - but rods/boxes are brilliant with one non tromboning zoom like the 28 135 (or matched cine primes or the fuji pair).

If I were you with that lens and that camera Id get rods and a box.

As for vari polas - one point.. when shooting cars I often use an actual pola to see through the glass.. but thats kind of a specialist moment.
 
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You got me back towards the sony A7siii - I have a box (TLS raven amd 4by4s from the 5d2) the 28-135 is cheap (and unlike the 18-80 works with fx6, 9 venice 18-80 doesnt work with C500), the body is cheap, HFR is there with audio and the AF has a good rep. It has some form of onboard monitor, a see in the sun option EVF , just need the worlds biggest HDMI protector (ribbon cable reroute?) The rod would take my motor for focus or zoom. Even using with a box would help in some rigging ways too boring to describe.

Its great if you stick with that lens which offers a good compromise.. it the client wants more..? go rental ?? Im a grip offereing you a a7s3 zoom solution.
 
If I had sundry kit built up over years of shooting and needed a change, I would commit to a path that allows natively mounted autofocus lenses.

First I’d spend a month eBaying my old stuff individually down to the cages at fixed “Buy it now” prices with shipping to anywhere in the EU. You get more for your old kit like that than trading it in or auctioning it, and there are economies of scale to doing it all at once (batch product photos, going to the post office twice a week with a sack of parcels, etc.). Some stuff will remain after a month but most will be gone.

Then, with money in my pocket and no baggage (lenses) to influence my choice, I’d choose a beautifully simplified set-up with a first zoom lens or whatever. Shoot it for a month or two and tweak the set-up with the knowledge gained.

Any new camera would have to be properly modern, not already ageing tech or compromised in any fundamental way. I wouldn’t want to repeat this process at the end of 2021.
 
Yep..

Deffo going to native AF.. but EF, RF or E? (EF RF E offer 10bit AF cinecameras unlike panny whatever mount they are (!?))

Each has pros and cons.

EF - old available cheap, goes on EF RF, Arri Panny and others (18-80 costly)
RF - new less cheap RF current tech very small which is good (no 'pro' zoom apart from converted 18-80)
E - thin flange means wont go on much, expensive, current tech (28-135 cheap)

Any new camera would have to be properly modern, not already ageing tech or compromised in any fundamental way.

Here Im less sure as the C200 is 'pro' in offereing ND XLR and SDI.. for sure Id prefer a C500 or C300ii but cant afford them right now.

The current canon I might be able to afford is odd with no SDi and pokey out the side HDMI on an already wide body.

The feeling I have is to offer simple things well so ND and SDi could be important.. HDMI leads to your director thinking you are a chump.
 
and lets have a look at the last few jobs..

Studio product shoot; C200 would replace GH4, functioning SDi would have helped , raw would have helped.
Studio greenscreen (replace FS7) (long rolltime) - SDI good, raw a problem (too big) 8 bit potentially a problem
Corporate interview, raw a size problem (?) SDI would have delivered decent director vision, AF could have helped if used in 80-200 role.
Hoiday homes shoot. (replacing FS7) Raw good, lack of speedbooster would require use of 10-24 lens to replace FF14 2.8 MF less mass on gimbal good


What Im seeing is that raw/8bit makes me feel a bit shakey.. either not getting the quality .. or creating a DIT nightmare.
 
I've made spreadsheets like this in the past for purchase decisions. Not sure if it's a waste of time but if you don't make one when you come back a few months later to re evaluate you can't remember all the reasons why you might want one camera vs another.
 
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