RUMOUR 2k raw !

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Paul V Doherty said:
m4/3 is a deal breaker....
My LetusXL is approximately the same FOV as m4/3.
Whilst the shallow DOF is perfectly adequate at f2.0 or less, the FOV is half that of FF 35mm, and that is not an acceptable compromise IMHO.
Yes, I know s35mm/APS-C has a FOV roughly 75% of FF, but that's as far as I am prepared to compromise.
Nobody needs to pay large amounts of money for fast m4/3 wide angle lenses when inexpensive legacy 35mm primes can be found in any pawn shop for use with the Holy Grail s35mm camcorder.
Panasonic's mistake was to only recognize the market for shallow DOF yet simultaneously miss the importance of fast wide angle glass to that market.
Wait another 12 to 18 months.... Canon or Nikon will deliver... (or Sony might surprise us with a pro version of the VG10)
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Remember s35 film is cropped as well. So your're dealing with the same challenges that have faced generations of film-makers when selecting lenses. The only difference is you have the option of selecting cheaper still lenses rather than paying $20000 each for proper cine-lenses.

Also keep in mind the Canon's have to crop part of the sensor to get a 16:9 image whereas the GH1's sensor is optimised so that it doesn't crop anything in 16:9 mode (some people have said the crop factor is actually reduced in 16:9 mode but my maths tells me crop factor/fov stays the same but the image is wider and thinner.) So the difference between them is actually less than the basic 2x vs 1.6x comparison and most people who say the GH1's DOF is not comparable to APS-C are fanboys just throwing out random comments to try and justify their undying love and devotion to their camera. The difference is actually negligible.

Putting aside all that maths and fact stuff, DOF is not the only important part of an image. M4/3 is not a deal breaker, and if you think that you probably need to re-evaluate your film-making priorities.
 
So yeah really I don't care about DOF too much. I shoot 2.8, 4, and 5.6 most of the time anyway.

I care about highlight detail and the colours. I hate looking at overly bright shiny sweat, white clothes, reflections, and sky that's all blown out. Ridiculous dynamic range and a decent bitrate pleeeeeeeease win us over again Nikon yaaay...
 
There is a veritable plethora of legacy 35mm, APS-C (aka "DX" in Nikon land) and s35mm lenses available to the savvy shopper.
What are the options for a fast FF 28mm wide angle equivalent lens in m4/3 land? A 12mm f2.8 prime? methinks not!
Therein lies the fatal flaw of m4/3 - FOV is CRUCIAL
Canon's photo division won't give us what we want.
It will come via osmosis and cross-pollination from the video division - IF Canon is listening and IF Canon sees the runaway success of the AF100 and VG10.
Nikon will have to branch out into uncharted video land - a prospect which the Nikon bean-counting buffoons might not like.
Nobody seriously expects Canon Photo to develop a competitor to the AF100 and the VG10, that would be a criminal neglect of Canon's years of R&D in their video division.
It seems to me that Sony has a more efficient flow of ideas across divisions than the other players.
 
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Paul V Doherty said:
It seems to me that Sony has a more efficient flow of ideas across divisions than the other players.
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Of all the players in this game, ONLY Sony has a fully functional, S35 video camera that ticks all the boxes for what we want. The question is whether Sony is interested in bringing that technology to the sub-$10k space. I have a feeling they will, but I don't think it will be there for another 3 years. Essentially, until the legs wear off their venerable XDCamEX series.

Canon's video division is still playing in 1/3" space.
Nikon is still playing in 720p
Panasonic doesn't have an S35 chip anywhere to be seen.
JVC looks like they aren't going to play in this market.
RED will get there, but when and with what volume?
 
Paul V Doherty said:
There is a veritable plethora of legacy 35mm, APS-C (aka "DX" in Nikon land) and s35mm lenses available to the savvy shopper.
What are the options for a fast FF 28mm wide angle equivalent lens in m4/3 land? A 12mm f2.8 prime? methinks not!
Therein lies the fatal flaw of m4/3 - FOV is CRUCIAL
Canon's photo division won't give us what we want.
It will come via osmosis and cross-pollination from the video division - IF Canon is listening and IF Canon sees the runaway success of the AF100 and VG10.
Nikon will have to branch out into uncharted video land - a prospect which the Nikon bean-counting buffoons might not like.
Nobody seriously expects Canon Photo to develop a competitor to the AF100 and the VG10, that would be a criminal neglect of Canon's years of R&D in their video division.
It seems to me that Sony has a more efficient flow of ideas across divisions than the other players.
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When you do the maths (figure out the actual crop factor after reducing the sensor size to 16:9) there will only be about 5mm difference between a 28mm lens on a GH1 and a 7d. I wouldn't exactly call that a 'fatal flaw.'

The Panasonic 20mm f1.7 will give almost the exact fov as the Sigma 24mm f/1.8 (and is sharper) or the Canon 24mm f1.4L (for a fraction of the price). When you take into account the 16:9 crop, it will actually probably be wider. I don't know of too many common primes which are wider and faster for APS-C than these two, so it's pretty even. APS-C does have a slight edge with super wide lenses - Panny and olympus can match them for width but most of their wider lenses (11-22mm, 9-18mm, 7-14mm, etc) are f/4 or they start at f/2.8 but ramp to f/3.5 or f/4. So, it does not become a fatal flaw, instead it calls upon proper lighting, which you should be using anyway.

The lenses may be lacking a little but if you search around, use adaptors, and do your research you will be able to find lenses to cover everything you need. Unless you are trying to shoot at night with no lights, in which case you're beyond help.

I don't understand all these people bagging the AF100. If Panasonic deliver - which I'm sure they will, this being the broadcast video division not the consumer camera division - this camera will be amazing. If people are going to discount it before it is even released, simply because of a 10% difference in fov, then they will be missing out - and possibly waiting years for something better to come along.
 
thisisapocalypse said:
Ha - have you even used a GH1? And *failed* us? Wow - Panasonic & Canon have given us some unbelievably good tools at an insanely low price point and it largely came out of nowhere and we're still basically in the first generation of this technology. None of them are *perfect* but they might well be considered perfect considering what they cost and in Panasonic's case (GH1) - how flexible they are with regards to lenses. Yeah they can't do *everything* but what they can do is awesome.
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I never said they "failed" us and I prefer the canons over the GH1, especially in low light. My comment was towards those who think think AF-100 will be the holy grail of cameras.

I believe the AF-100 will not live up to people's expectation and dropping 6k for 4/3 camera, I am not willing to do.

I think its a matter of time b4 someone drops a raw s35 or larger sensor camera (at a reasonable price). For now, I'll be happy with my 5D and yes it is far from perfect.
 
acoelho1 said:
I believe the AF-100 will not live up to people's expectation and dropping 6k for 4/3 camera, I am not willing to do.

I think its a matter of time b4 someone drops a raw s35 or larger sensor camera (at a reasonable price). For now, I'll be happy with my 5D and yes it is far from perfect.
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I second that motion!!!!

It's all just a matter of time..... 1 year or 3 years - I'm happy to wait :)

s35mm/APS-C is the only way
 
That pic is most definitely not real but it is only matter of time. I think things will get interesting once Scarlett drops...I know, but im sure it will happen sooner or later...

In a related, but not related note.

Duke Nukem Forever is actually coming out. There was a playable demo at PAX in Seattle.
 
Paul V Doherty said:
I second that motion!!!!

It's all just a matter of time..... 1 year or 3 years - I'm happy to wait :)

s35mm/APS-C is the only way
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M4/3rds is 1.18x s35mm...you're really gonna wait 3 years for .18x wider? Ok...we'll be shooting films in the meantime.

You do realize that a lot of amazing digital cinema cameras have used 2/3" chips right?
 
This discussion is happening in numerous threads already - and it doesn't seem to be about the original topic anymore (which was quickly shown to be fake anyhow). I don't see a good reason to revive a two month old thread here, so I'm sure everyone will understand if we close this one down.

Thanks.
 
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