RED NAB NEWS THREAD: Scarlet pics are up

Sony and Pana aren't in any sort of immediate danger. You must realize that.

DVCproHD is established and simple. The price to performance ratio is fair and justified over the past two to three years.

RAW is a completely different animal that you should pet before praising. It ain't a walk in the park and it's easy to mishandle.

What it DOES offer over the current crop (excluding the soon-to-be-released Cameras) of Camera's is a cleaner, sharper image. I think once Pana and Sony hit this mark (Sony's pretty much there) at a 1080p Frame then the Resolution war becomes even more moot.

Scarlet's nice. But it's not a Sony and Pana killer by any means. There are many other sectors aside from the no-budget do-it-yourself crowd. We comprise only a TINY bit of the overall camera sales.
 
Kholi,

Absolutely you are right, it is not a Sony or Pana killer. But RED's market is currently Indie and professional film makers, not news or run and gun situations.

And if you are into indie film or feature film, then you are more than willing to work with RAW, in fact, it is essential.

So even if it is not a Sony/Pana Killer, it is an incredible tool at an incredible price point with incredible features, and if Sony or Pana want to compete at the Indie level, they have got some new competition. In fact, I would venture to say that they are now the underdogs in the feature/indie film market with REDs new releases.

But I definitely don't want any heated arguements, I am just thrilled at NAB this year. Sony has some incredible releases, Panasonic has some incredible releases, and so does RED. And this benefits us all.
 
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TheMusician said:
In fact, I would venture to say that they are now the underdogs in the feature/indie film market with REDs new releases.
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Well, to be fair, they might be the underdogs in 12+ months when RED actually releases new cameras. All we have right now are announcements.

Sony has some incredible releases, Panasonic has some incredible releases, and so does RED. And this benefits us all.
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Absolutely.
Bring on the competition in the marketplace!
:thumbsup:
 
Luis Caffesse said:
Well, to be fair, they might be the underdogs in 12+ months when RED actually releases new cameras. All we have right now are announcements.



Absolutely.
Bring on the competition in the marketplace!
:thumbsup:
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Can't even BEGIN to disagree on competition in the marketplace. Only makes it better for all of us.

And can't disagree with the blatant logic that the camera isn't even out yet. For that I'm actually glad. HOPING to keep work coming in so I can get an HPX170 to tide over til Scarlet.

That's the main thing to focus on right now.
 
By the way, someone touched on the RED ONE used market. That coincides with REFURBISHED market as well.

With the Trade-Up Program going into effect, the refurbed Market should be quite tasty no?
 
Kholi said:
HOPING to keep work coming in so I can get an HPX170 to tide over til Scarlet.

That's the main thing to focus on right now.
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Me too, until some time next year, it has come down to the HPX170 or EX1 for me. Can't wait to hear about the image(sharpness, noise, colors) coming from the HPX170.

Anyone heard of anything new coming from Canon or JVC?
 
Luis Caffesse said:
While that's an interesting suggestion I don't know any sound guy that would prefer using a wireless rig to a wire one. Getting clean sound is hard enough as it is - no need to worry about transmisison issues on top of it.
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LOL - I thought u were that 18 year old - my mistake.

Anyway as Barry mentioned somewhere 3k single bayer is actually 2k-ish, and those 100fps are probably windowed seeing as its CMOS. I remember when Red One was first announced the specs were CRAZY, and then years later we find out the real world figures (check adam wilts review against EX1, F23, etc.) And remember we are talking about a rolling shutter camera (I assume) so I think we need to see it more in light of a HV20 sorta light.
 
After what feels like years of waiting, RED finally unveiled the Scarlet today. And I believe the whole industry is shaking on its feet for the second time. The Scarlet is totally different from anything we have seen so far and definitely the most unconventional camcorder of the 21st century. People who watch the TV series LOST on ABC know what I mean. That series gives you an answer on a question and that answers leads to 10 new questions. RED had managed to pull of the same today with the Scarlet.

Let's start with the specifications as provided by RED:

* NEW 2/3" MYSTERIUM X SENSOR
* 1-120 FPS (180FPS BURST)
* UP TO 100 MB/SEC REDCODE RAW AND RGB RECORDING TO DUAL COMPACT FLASH
* 4.8" LCD
* 8X T2.8 RED ZOOM LENS
* FULL AUTO OR FULL MANUAL SHOOTING MODES
* HDMI and HD-SDI
* FIREWIRE 800 and USB2
* STILL MODE
* COMPATIBLE WITH MANY RED ONE ACCESSORIES
* WI-FI CONTROL

The first thing I noticed was the weird form factor. It looks like a pocket camcorder for the consumer market, only of the same build quality and looks as the RED ONE. Jim mentioned that this was going to be an all-metal camera. There are multiple pictures of the Scarlet and one is equipped with an external monitor and some handles. I think that although the ergonomics are different, the two handles will definitely work. So in the ergonomics department, they moved away from the classic design that Sony, Canon, Panasonic and JVC have been using for ages. That might be a good thing.

If we look at the specifications, we see a 2/3" MYSTERIUM X sensor. I think many people are disappointed because they expected a 35mm sensor. But I think for a camera like this 2/3" is a great performance and with most other Camera vendors using 1/3" or 1/2" it is a big improvement. It puts them in the XDCAM and VARICAM territory, which is amazing. It is a single sensor, like the RED ONE, and I think you have to approach it from a photography kind of view. All Digital SLR cameras for photography have one sensor, and they take amazingly sharp and crispy pictures with a good lens. When they have proper debayering, I think this sensor will be perfect.

The framerates. Amazing. From 1 - 120 fps. No other camera in this class pulls this off and this will allow over- and undercranking. Extreme slow-motion, and high-speed shots all in the palm of your hand. 120 fps is something everyone has been asking for on cameras from Sony, Panasonic, Canon and JVC and RED is the first company to pull it off. The 180fps burst mode will appeal to the surf, skate and extreme sports crowd. I think no one has complaints in this area. I hope this will be the new standard.

Up to 100MB/sec REDCODE RAW recording to dual compact flash. Amazing. The only issues I see here is archiving/storage/computing power. Most of us will currently use 25mbps/35mbps/50mbps footage and now we are getting 100mbps 4:4:4 (I suppose) RAW footage. This means additional processing which ask for a lot of storage space and an incredibly fast computer. I have the feeling that many people are hyped up about this camera but forget that this is no HDV format that you can play directly on your television without additional processing. Because of this, I cannot see that this camera will work for the consumer crowd or even many prosumers. You will need a many CF cards to store 100mbps footage and the workflow is completely different than the workflow most people are used to.

4.8" LCD. Means nothing. Size is great, but the resolution is far more important. It should be as good as the Sony PMW-EX1 LCD screen or even better to allow proper focussing of the high resolution image. I hope it includes the one that is shown on the picture because it looks great.

Fixed lens. I am puzzled. I really, really hoped for an interchangeable lens system. I hoped the Scarlet would be the video equivalent of the Nikon D300. And this means I would have loved interchangeable lenses. I think the T2.8 lens is not bad but it could have been so much better. They create the dream camcorder for indie filmmakers and then they limit it to a single, 8x lens which makes it far less appealing to me and many others. I can see that they did this so it does not eat sales from the RED ONE, but I wished (and hope they will change this in the future) made lenses interchangeable.

FULL AUTO or FULL MANUAL shooting modes. How will this work? I see no focus, iris and zoom rings? Will this be menu based? Again, this is weird and something I expected the Scarlet to have. Maybe the come up with a revolutionary new way of controlling focus, iris and zoom. It might have something to do with the WI-FI control. I can see them having a control module which you can attach to the Scarlet to do all these things in a way that is completely different than we have been used to. Like the Nintendo Wii controller looked very weird but has changed the whole industry.

HDMI and HD-SDI. Perfect, I guess that we will also get embedded audio through both of these jacks. No complaints here.

FIREWIRE 800 and USB2. Perfect. Both industry standards, and having FIREWIRE 800 is always great as it is much faster than USB2.

STILL MODE. Also a nice thing because you can use the Scarlet as a still camera as well and it makes it possible to take photos during shoots which are of high quality and can be used for marketing purposes.

COMPATIBLE WITH MANY RED ONE ACCESSORIES. Great. I expect this camera to be completely modular. That's why I guess you cannot see any audio jacks. There will be an audio module (I guess) which two XLR inputs and audio management options that can be attached to the cameras. I also mentioned the two handles which looks great and comfortable. Then there is also the matte box (and I guess that means filters too). Modularity is the best thing in the world as you only pay for what you want and not for what you won't need. I don't see why other companies don't understand this. You can always add things but never remove things you won't need.

The conclusion is that I think they are creating a revolutionary product that has already sent a shock-wave through the industry. I am sure many R&D teams of Sony, Panasonic, Canon, JVC and maybe even Nikon and Olympus are watching every step of RED from now and are going to jump in this market with their own products. I hope we will finally see more metal products instead of all those plastic, flimsy prosumer camcorders. But I do have some doubts. The major one is the lens and the controls. They have to come up with a good system for controlling focus, zoom and iris and I cannot see it from the pictures they released. I hope they will also release a version with interchangeable lenses. Without those, I think you get the most powerful camcorder but can never unleash its full potential. I see why they would want to protect the sales of the big RED's but I think they can do this as well by increasing the price of such a Scarlet by $2,000 - $2,500 so the difference between the Scarlet and the RED One will be smaller.

I hope there will be a lot of interviews about this camera with Jim soon because I have more questions then when I did not know what the Scarlet was a few hours ago. Anyway, interesting times. RED shaked up the industry and all other companies will be forced to rethink the way they work, and more importantly, how their products look and what features they have. Only for that reason every industry should have a company like RED.

Congratulations Jim and the other members of your team. Enjoy NAB and I hope I get some answers in the coming week!
 
Luis Caffesse said:
While that's an interesting suggestion I don't know any sound guy that would prefer using a wireless rig to a wire one. Getting clean sound is hard enough as it is - no need to worry about transmisison issues on top of it.
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True for now, but I wish someone would invest more time and technology into a good wireless option that didn't cost and arm and a leg. Something digital with good error correction and a stable signal can't be too difficult, or cost that much money to produce. I can get a bluetooth earpiece with crystal clear audio for less than 50 bucks. The area of sound capturing for film and video seems like it's in dire need of some innovation. Yes, what we have now works, but it could be better and cheaper.

Here's another suggestion. A portable recorder that uses the Scarlet's WiFi connection to synchronize with. The camera man pushes play, and the recorder rolls with the same exact timecode.
 
sean90291 said:
I won't hijack this thread. I'm more interested in NAB news. But short (and final) answer: camera body; base production pack, Red LCD, Red RAID drive+CF module; Nikon mount. Add Nikon lenses to taste (anywere from $90 for a lens to $5000...but don't for a second think that you CAN'T make a movie on Red with a few sub-$400 Nikon primes). I have other production equipment that I have used with other cameras. And a house to put it in. I don't include those costs in the cost of my working Red Camera, just like I don't add lens tissues to the cost of my EX1.
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Of course if you are using Nikon lenses you can get away with less, but it is a bit like buying a Porsche and put a 100hp 4 cylinder engine. Nikon on a RED isn't considered a pro PKG in my book... The great thing about the red camera is the ability to use film lenses, which are engineered very differently than still photography lenses. No offense, but using a still lens on a Red is, in my opinion missing what the camera was built for. I don't mean to imply you won't get a descent result with a Nikon lens, but a film lens will give far superior results.
 
SomewhereinLA said:
Of course if you are using Nikon lenses you can get away with less, but it is a bit like buying a Porsche and put a 100hp 4 cylinder engine. Nikon on a RED isn't considered a pro PKG in my book... The great thing about the red camera is the ability to use film lenses, which are engineered very differently than still photography lenses. No offense, but using a still lens on a Red is, in my opinion missing what the camera was built for. I don't mean to imply you won't get a descent result with a Nikon lens, but a film lens will give far superior results.
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Most RED owners do not own Film Lenses. In the event, sayin' it again here, that you do own a RED ONE you ought'a be bringin' in enough money to support it and your clients ought'a be ready to rent the good stuff.

In the event that they can't, you can still pick up jobs usin' Nikon lenses. Chances are, if they can't afford to rent PL glass in the first place, the Nikon glass is going to "match" the project regardless.

So, yeah, 25k is an Optimistic RED ONE package that you can shoot with.
 
Luis Caffesse said:
While I was over there, I also saw this:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=195983&postcount=21

Apparently someone asked Graeme about audio on the scarlet, to which he said:
"I can't give specifics but Yes Scarlet will have audio."

So there goes that worry.
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That's a relief. I was looking at the pics again and while I can tell what almost every port on the back is for, what is that round top one over the HDMI? Mini XLR?

red_3k_scarlet_hero.png
 
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