FS7: RED Scarlet-W

It doesn't mean anything. Some DSMC² accessories will work with Epic and Scarlet, but some will only work on the new Weapon and Scarlet-W cameras.

It's just marketing.
 
yoclay said:
You don't know me, so what the hell you are talking about when you refer to me in that manner? You really need to stop insulting others, simply because they do not share your opinion.
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Yikes did I hit a nerve? My post wasn't directed purely at yourself, it was in reply to Yoaks post and aimed at a broader audience. But if the shoe fits? :undecided

The camera has different olpf's for reasons that relate more to versatility in different situations rather than any kind of problem with the sensor. We have all seen trash & treasure produced from the full spectrum of cameras out there, no surprise. But we have also seen some of the best filmmakers & studios in the world choose to produce beautifully crafted projects(with astronomical budgets) on these cameras. That never would have occurred had it not been able to reproduce human skin tones properly.

I think we would all agree that the deciding factor there would one of two things. An inexperienced dp or some kind of botched lighting package/scenario/equipment failure.
 
IMO Dragon/weapon motion sensor is 2nded by only one other and that's alexa's. So if you are having issues with skin rendition I can only assuming your working footage from Arri.....or maybe film.

At the end of the day if it is good enough for Fincher, Cameron, Scott, Bay, Jackson it's good enough for me and my humble productions.
 
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Lenilenapi said:
Ben Scott said:
http://www.red.com/store/products/dsmc-red-motion-ti-pl-mount
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I saw that but it doesn't explain what the heck it is and how it works.
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In 2009, Tony Davis, an engineer of X-ray machines, founded a company called Tessive. In June 2011 Tessive came out with their product, the Time Filter. Then he brought it to NAB 2012.

The Tessive Time Filter was a large, single-pixel LCD panel that could go from clear to black. You screwed it on to the front of your camera and set the camera's native shutter to 360 degrees (in other words, always exposing). Then the Tessive shutter would act as your camera's new shutter.

The first benefit was global shutter. Tessive timed it so that it would block light while your sensor read itself out.

But Tessive took it a step beyond global shutter, which I didn't think was possible. Normally an image sensor's shutter flips on and off instantly. But what if instead you made the shutter fade in and out? It would have a certain effect on the motion blur. Normally the blur has a sharp trailing edge. If you do it this way though, then the opacity of the blur tapers off --- sort of like the Feather Edges effect in Photoshop.


So why would you want this effect? Well first of all they say that the old-fashioned mechanically rotating film shutter did this, though to a lesser degree. It accounts for why some people say that, even at 24p and 180-degree shutter, video motion looks jerkier than film (EDIT: I don't think film is much like Tessive anymore. See end note.). So the Tessive Time Filter smoothed out motion, in a way that maybe you didn't think was possible. A secondary benefit is that no longer did helicopter blades, wagon wheels, etc., seem to do that weird thing where they turn backwards, nor do CRT screens flicker. It was this benefit that first motivated Tony Davis, and he says that it's a kind of aliasing --- the same kind of thing as moire when you don't have a good optical low-pass filter --- except this aliasing is in the dimension of time instead of the dimension of space. He also says that it's related to the Nyquist Frequency, where you have to sample at at least 40 kHz to accurately capture 20 kHz (At this point you will be forgiven if your brain suffers the blue screen of death.)

Despite its wonderful benefits, the Tessive Time Filter didn't catch on, because it was more than $10,000, was bulky, and only worked on cameras with a genlock jack. Around 2014 Red bought the rights from Tessive, Tessive stopped selling it, and Red started selling the Motion Mount.

If you understand that it is just an LCD panel that can let all light through, block all light, or something in between, then you might see how it could also be used as an electronic neutral density filter. In fact, it is never quite clear. LCD panels can only get so clear, and at its clearest it still knocks out 1.5 stops of light. As far as I know that is its one drawback: you lose 1.5 stops of low-light sensitivity. Personally, as much value as I put on global shutter, and since it doubles as a built-in ND filter, I think the light loss is worth it.

In case it reminds you of the electronic ND filter in Sony's FS5, I'm guessing Sony is indeed using an LCD too --- although they aren't offering the Tessive motion benefits (I fear because our Patent Office unfortunately granted Tessive a patent, which Red now owns).

Although discontinued, Tessive's website still has a few pages about how it works. Basically, the fading in and out happens very, very fast, all within the span of a single frame. For example, if you set the Tessive shutter to 1/48 of a second, then for about 1/60 of a second it is closed. Then for maybe 1/250 of a second it is fading in from black to clear. Then it is fully open for 1/60 of a second. Then over the course of another 1/250 of a second it fades out again to black. And so on, over and over, for each of the 24 frames per second. I'm rounding and guessing on the actual fractions.

EDIT - 22 December 2015: I no longer think film's mechanical shutter is the reason pans look smoother. After I revisited Tessive's page on the matter, Mechanical Shutter Comparison, I saw that film's roll-off is negligible.

Shutter-waveforms.jpg

I also looked at freeze-frames from 35mm movies, and the blur doesn't seem to me to taper off.

If video pans look rougher than film pans --- which I'm not even sure is true --- then is it from something else, like artificial edge enhancement, deeper focus, or less care?
 
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starcentral said:
ok but what is mk1 vs mk2? more money for modules, non-cross-compatibility?
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DSMC2 is the new line of RED cameras. Most significant is the upgraded body design first used in their Weapon camera. Their entry level camera RAVEN is listed under DSMC2 as well, but doesn't get the same body as WEAPON and SCARLET-W.

The upgraded body design is pretty significant in my opinion. Smaller and lighter with better internals that get more out of the same Dragon sensor. WiFi is included as well as LUT support. Let's not forget simultaneous ProRes recording (scaled, not cropped: 2k for Scarlet and 4k for Weapon).

RED is moving along their trajectory nicely. If you want information, why not go straight to the source?
 
Thanks for the low down. To be honest I'm not up on RED camera's and systems and wouldn't even know where to start on their forums which I do frequent. I figured I'd just ask here, where like on the TV show Cheers 'everybody knows your name'.

I wonder if existing Scarlets are losing their value over this. Will existing Scarlet owners be able to upgrade to the new Scarlet somehow or is it not seen as an "upgrade"? As I understand it both are "Dragons".

[Edit] : this is great thread on Raven vs Scarlet-W http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?139077-Raven-vs-Scarlet-W
 
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Scarlet Dragons are a 2-3 year old camera upgraded from a 2011 design. The owners are getting a $2500 discount off a new scarlet plus accessory voucher for nothing. No trade in. Basically a free gift.

The owners who are complaining are absurd in my mind. should we all just sit there and hold back technology until you've managed to make your camera earn it money back?

The camera hasn't stopped making nice pictures overnight and if you've owned the camera for a year and not found a way to make it work for you financially you never should have bought it. If you bought it very recently without even a cursory glance at what's on the horizon then well... you're an idiot.

I say all this as someone who screwed up when I bought my Red and invented a client base in my head that wasn't really there.
 
Yoak said:
I'm amazed how anyone can hate the skin tone of Dragon.
Just shot an 8 hour interview for a documentary yesterday on Dragon and everyone thought they looked great.
But we are all different....

I sometimes dislike my magenta FS7 skin tones though.

Scarlet W looks like a great camera
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Wow 8 hours. How much storage did that take up?
 
Have people here who are thinking about the Scarlet-W entertained the idea of getting a used Alexa? Essentially you will be in shooting range of the ARRI cam in price, if you don't already have any bits of the RED ecosystem in your inventory.

I suspect in the next 6 months there should be a growing amount of older Alexas on the market.
 
yep as I thought. It's still not even in the vague ballpark is it? The 5 year old Alexa is still just under double the price of the equivalent camera+basic media package for the Scarlet-W.

The residuals on those bad boys is incredible.
 
Yes and it doesn't even film in 4K. It's the colour science on those cameras that are amazing, I think it looks better than film.
 
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