Red Scarlet S35

henryolonga said:
How much is your Drama Otis?
Click to expand...

It's a very different tool so you can't compare pricing.

With the present state of euro, about $14,000 in a feature film capable setup. 5 hours of power, 5 hours of HDD recording, 8" touchscreen monitor, 8" secondary monitor, cabling, c-mount and f-mount, top and side handle, 2 channels of remote preamp. Add $1,000 for a 20h 6TB eSATA raid5 for storage and workflow, and $2,500 for 7 Fujinon prime lenses (f1.4 for 27mm 43mm 55mm 85mm 120mm, f1.8 for 170mm and 256mm, all FF equivalent). No computer required on set.

I remember watching an HDMI capture related video. Did you do that?
 
Thanks Otis - Yeah - that was me. Maybe I can ask you as no one here has bitten - you are the most techie guy I have come across on this forum and you seem to have a brilliant mind. I love what you are doing with your Drama. What do youi think about my crazy idea here?

Is your camera recording the sensor data as uncompressed RGB only?How about an output to go to an off camera recorder like Cinedeck - is that an option?


http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthrea...or-tap............feasibility.-Vitilay-Anyone
 
Doesn´t make any sense Henry, the Drama is recording uncompressed already - it´s not getting any better than that.

Frank
 
I was looking at the Sundance dramatic features that got selected for competition this year. Foreign and US, a total of 33 feature films out of more than 3000 entries were picked for exhibition. Of these from what I could easily find out about half were shot on film, most of those on 35mm, 5 were shot on RED, about the same number on 16mm film, a couple were HD video, cameras not listed. the rest I couldn't tell. Were any shot on a DSLR?

DSLR's are great learning tools, decent webcams, great interview cameras for new media journalists, they have a small niche in the film world, but are not really very good as serious film production cameras despite all the hype. Nor are they ever likely to be, it is not what they are primarily designed for.
 
Razz16mm said:
I was looking at the Sundance dramatic features that got selected for competition this year. Foreign and US, a total of 33 feature films out of more than 3000 entries were picked for exhibition. Of these from what I could easily find out about half were shot on film, most of those on 35mm, 5 were shot on RED, about the same number on 16mm film, a couple were HD video, cameras not listed. the rest I couldn't tell. Were any shot on a DSLR?

DSLR's are great learning tools, decent webcams, great interview cameras for new media journalists, they have a small niche in the film world, but are not really very good as serious film production cameras despite all the hype. Nor are they ever likely to be, it is not what they are primarily designed for.
Click to expand...

I understand where you are coming from, but just don't believe that the Sundance selection committee would exclude a film, of notable worth, just because of the camera that it was shot on. The issue is to make a film of notable worth with what ever camera you can. A feature film, shot on a DSLR is going to be, in most instances, a film with a very low budget. There are very few films selected for Sundance that are very low budget. For your comparison above, I would suggest doing a comparison of the budgets of the films that were shown at Sundance. Even with the great cameras we know that are coming down the line, I think that if you continue to track the Sundance film festival by camera format, you will not see many of the new cameras represented there. Anybody who thinks that they are going to buy an AF-100, a Sony F-3 or a Red Scarlet S-35 camera and then make a film that will be accepted into the Sundance Film Festival.... Well, I suggest you also buy a lottery ticket and get rich... then you would not have to care about the cost of a Scarlet or any other camera.
 
henryolonga said:
Thanks Otis - Yeah - that was me. Maybe I can ask you as no one here has bitten - you are the most techie guy I have come across on this forum and you seem to have a brilliant mind. I love what you are doing with your Drama. What do youi think about my crazy idea here?

Is your camera recording the sensor data as uncompressed RGB only?How about an output to go to an off camera recorder like Cinedeck - is that an option?


http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthrea...or-tap............feasibility.-Vitilay-Anyone
Click to expand...

For Drama it doesn't make sense, it will only make it more complex, more expensive and also compromise quality and control. If you want to capture a very specific sensor to a computer, I can help you with that. The parts do cost a lot though.

If you want to capture HDMI in a better way, I can recommend parts and manufacturing for a recorder. You can make it simpler, and more practical. Pro battery, custom pc, touchscreen, good thermal design, higher dependability, lower noise, smaller form factor, removable raid storage etc.
 
David G. Smith said:
I understand where you are coming from, but just don't believe that the Sundance selection committee would exclude a film, of notable worth, just because of the camera that it was shot on. The issue is to make a film of notable worth with what ever camera you can. A feature film, shot on a DSLR is going to be, in most instances, a film with a very low budget. There are very few films selected for Sundance that are very low budget. For your comparison above, I would suggest doing a comparison of the budgets of the films that were shown at Sundance. Even with the great cameras we know that are coming down the line, I think that if you continue to track the Sundance film festival by camera format, you will not see many of the new cameras represented there. Anybody who thinks that they are going to buy an AF-100, a Sony F-3 or a Red Scarlet S-35 camera and then make a film that will be accepted into the Sundance Film Festival.... Well, I suggest you also buy a lottery ticket and get rich... then you would not have to care about the cost of a Scarlet or any other camera.
Click to expand...

Well said!

Sundance? Aim higher and don't worry about the camera, there are more important things to worry about:) A friend of mine competed for Golden Lion in Venice with a DV film and went home with a FIPRESCI prize.
 
Otis Grapsas said:
For Drama it doesn't make sense, it will only make it more complex, more expensive and also compromise quality and control. If you want to capture a very specific sensor to a computer, I can help you with that. The parts do cost a lot though.

If you want to capture HDMI in a better way, I can recommend parts and manufacturing for a recorder. You can make it simpler, and more practical. Pro battery, custom pc, touchscreen, good thermal design, higher dependability, lower noise, smaller form factor, removable raid storage etc.
Click to expand...


Thanks Otis - I suppose what I mean is if I were able to siphon the RAW bayer data off the sensor of the GH1 or GH2 and then take it away for recording. Just curious. How expensive for the parts using the GH1 sensor? Can you point me in the right direction of people who supply the parts? No need to discuss it on your thread by the way PM or in thread I started. thanks.
 
David G. Smith said:
I understand where you are coming from, but just don't believe that the Sundance selection committee would exclude a film, of notable worth, just because of the camera that it was shot on. The issue is to make a film of notable worth with what ever camera you can. A feature film, shot on a DSLR is going to be, in most instances, a film with a very low budget. There are very few films selected for Sundance that are very low budget. For your comparison above, I would suggest doing a comparison of the budgets of the films that were shown at Sundance. Even with the great cameras we know that are coming down the line, I think that if you continue to track the Sundance film festival by camera format, you will not see many of the new cameras represented there. Anybody who thinks that they are going to buy an AF-100, a Sony F-3 or a Red Scarlet S-35 camera and then make a film that will be accepted into the Sundance Film Festival.... Well, I suggest you also buy a lottery ticket and get rich... then you would not have to care about the cost of a Scarlet or any other camera.
Click to expand...

I don't think they would exclude a film, especially shorts, based on camera choice. I also don't think that many serious filmmakers with any kind of a theatrical feature production budget would make a DSLR the first choice for A camera when something as decent as the AF100 is available so cheap, or something like the Scarlet, either 2/3" or S35, is available for still pretty modest prices.
 
Last edited:
Right, I don't think a film festival would exclude a great movie just because it was shot on a DSLR.

But I think most serious filmmakers know what they're going into, and what they're up against when they're trying to make a feature film that can get into the likes of Sundaynceor Toronto, etc.

And in their decision making, they are wise to choose tools like the AF100 / Scarlet vs. DSLRs not because of the image alone, but because it will allow them to work faster, more accurately, and with proper and flexible ways to monitor the image.
 
henryolonga said:
Thanks Otis. So to shoot DSLR style you would just need

$7,000 brain ($8,000 with the increase?)
5" touchscreen $1200
side handle $750-$950
two standard batteries and charger $950-$1200
Click to expand...

+side cf module 500/ssd module 500 (they said it may be priced around the same as the CF not sure yet though)
-touchscreen and buy a cheap hdmi monitor and replace with touchscreen later
-don't know where the 750-950 price for batteries and charger came from as there is no pricing on that yet as far as i know

yes big productions would need what the red one had but they would also have the money to buy it all. Plus the S35 might end up costing more than 8k because HDRx might be even harder to implement in it than the others.

I would never have a evf on a bare bones list, at least put on the redrock evf, at the low level you don't need pro in out, or even base, you can choose between the redmote or side handle or neither and go through touch screens (not sure on that one yet), by no means do you need a bottom handle in a bare bones kit either. and now you can still use CF cards but in the SSD drive with an adapter so you can continue to use cheap media at lower redcode rates and when you can afford it make the move up to SSD.

all this is about modularity, some want it others don't.

and then all of this aside they may be throwing together packaged deals like they have for the fixed for all models giving you a base pack of accessories for a much discounted price on initial purchase.

so you can really make the S35 and most of reds upcoming cameras into whatever market you want, for the S35 it looks like 14k-25k (my rough estimate)

have a good one
 
Last edited:
David G. Smith said:
I understand where you are coming from, but just don't believe that the Sundance selection committee would exclude a film, of notable worth, just because of the camera that it was shot on.
Click to expand...
I guarantee you that they would not.
The issue is to make a film of notable worth with what ever camera you can. A feature film, shot on a DSLR is going to be, in most instances, a film with a very low budget. There are very few films selected for Sundance that are very low budget. For your comparison above, I would suggest doing a comparison of the budgets of the films that were shown at Sundance. Even with the great cameras we know that are coming down the line, I think that if you continue to track the Sundance film festival by camera format, you will not see many of the new cameras represented there. Anybody who thinks that they are going to buy an AF-100, a Sony F-3 or a Red Scarlet S-35 camera and then make a film that will be accepted into the Sundance Film Festival.... Well, I suggest you also buy a lottery ticket and get rich... then you would not have to care about the cost of a Scarlet or any other camera.
Click to expand...
This is all absolutely true. The odds of getting into Sundance are extremely long, regardless of what you shot on. What you shoot on is not of interest to ... well, any festival committe that I can think of, with the possible exception of Ann Arbor. I should point out that our DVXFest winner was a film shot on a 550D/t2i. I think the prior two winners were GH1. And before that, a Red One.

Nobody cares what you shot on. They only care about the experience of watching the final film.
 
Razz16mm said:
I don't think they would exclude a film, especially shorts, based on camera choice. I also don't think that many serious filmmakers with any kind of a theatrical feature production budget would make a DSLR the first choice for A camera when something as decent as the AF100 is available so cheap, or something like the Scarlet, either 2/3" or S35, is available for still pretty modest prices.
Click to expand...
Exactly. It really is this simple.
 
skital said:
Hey guys. I've been drooling over the Red Scarlet S35 and want to give up my Canon T2i when it comes out. The incredible dynamic range is one of the biggest points for me. That is the one major hurdle I felt digital had to cross to exceed film.

The problem is the S35 is $7k for the body only. For me, that is a lot of money, but I want to shoot awesome looking films with high dynamic range for me to play around with in post. I like that lighting won't be as much of an issue. Yes, I know lights are still a plus, but now in situations outside where I'd need fill light because the background is so bright I might not with the Red, because it sees more how the human eyes does.

I need to make money from this camera if I get it. I hope I do from my films, but I need a more sure fired way to make money from this. How should I go about this? I know it can be done, but where should I begin?

Would it be feasible to try to rent the camera out to independent film productions and maybe use it as an advantage to travel and make connections, meet other filmmakers, actors, etc while also making some money on the side?

I'm open to shooting weddings also, but if there are other ways to bring in money with this Red Scarlet S35 I'm all ears. It would be a dream come true to quite my job in retail unloading trucks for low pay. I love filming...so why not do it as a career? I just need to know how to get my foot in the door. :)
Click to expand...

Interesting post. So you are holding out for a vaporware camera thinking that the extended dynamic range is going to get you into the film world when you already have a T2i. I'm going to go out on a (very short) limb here and say if you can't get yourself going with the T2i, you won't be able to do it with a Scarlet either. Stop "drooling" over fantasy cameras and that will magically make your footage professional and learn with the excellent camera you have. Great films have been shot on far less capable cameras. The scarlet isn't your magic bullet...no camera is. You HAVE an excellent camera right now and if you're not getting great images there is only one thing stopping that from happening, your skill set. Go out and be a filmmaker now. Stop waiting for some hyped up camera that is supposed to cure all amature filmmakers and do everything imaginable.

I'm sorry I'm ranting but this nieve belief that the Scarlet is some magical super camera is so annoying. When the realism that this camera, IF it is ever released, hits that it can't do everything it's cracked up to be and that it has its own set of flaws is going to be crushing to some people.

Brands are just brands. My loyalty lies only with whoever is making the best camera that I can afford at the moment.

[EDIT] One last thing. I've learned a ton from this forum but I've gotten to the point that I've learned pretty much all I need to go out and shoot great images, so I don't visit here as much anymore. I check back every now an then to see if new stuff is coming up or some interesting discussion. I realized that I was becoming an equipment collector instead of a filmaker. Equipment porn. Now I have to go out and do what these cameras were intended to do...stop shooting "test footage" and shoot a real film.
 
Last edited:
boulder said:
Interesting post. So you are holding out for a vaporware camera thinking that the extended dynamic range is going to get you into the film world when you already have a T2i. I'm going to go out on a (very short) limb here and say if you can't get yourself going with the T2i, you won't be able to do it with a Scarlet either. Stop "drooling" over fantasy cameras and that will magically make your footage professional and learn with the excellent camera you have. Great films have been shot on far less capable cameras. The scarlet isn't your magic bullet...no camera is. You HAVE an excellent camera right now and if you're not getting great images there is only one thing stopping that from happening, your skill set. Go out and be a filmmaker now. Stop waiting for some hyped up camera that is supposed to cure all amature filmmakers and do everything imaginable.

I'm sorry I'm ranting but this nieve belief that the Scarlet is some magical super camera is so annoying. When the realism that this camera, IF it is ever released, hits that it can't do everything it's cracked up to be and that it has its own set of flaws is going to be crushing to some people.

Brands are just brands. My loyalty lies only with whoever is making the best camera that I can afford at the moment.

[EDIT] One last thing. I've learned a ton from this forum but I've gotten to the point that I've learned pretty much all I need to go out and shoot great images, so I don't visit here as much anymore. I check back every now an then to see if new stuff is coming up or some interesting discussion. I realized that I was becoming an equipment collector instead of a filmaker. Equipment porn. Now I have to go out and do what these cameras were intended to do...stop shooting "test footage" and shoot a real film.
Click to expand...

+1
 
No Scarlet or EPIC-S specs on NAB like everyone was waiting and the reason was Japan's earth quake! They can't give specs for the cameras because of the quake? That means the cameras aren't even close to be ready. It's understable that the production will not start as soon as hoped, but not giving the specs and using the earth quake as the excuse is... well, the quake gave them the extra time they needed and they capitalised on it.
 
Anyone still waiting for scarlet is foolish, had it been released when it was suppose to would have been a home run. But in todays market, it won't do anywhere near the sales it would have. The whole 3k thing was mearly a ploy to gain publicity, and it did. Now it's backfired. People are fed up, and tired. And the funniest part is that there's still people waiting to buy this camera as it will make them the great filmmaker they will never be. Then you have that guy that goes from event to event with the scarlet prototype, (who is a nice guy, I will admit) And he's still trying to drum up excitment. People aren't getting all that excited about small sensor cams anymore like they used to. There is a market for small sensors, but not like the market for large sensors. It's really to bad, I wanted this to pan out as much as everyone else did three years ago. But today sony has my interest. And if this camera ever does come out and it's great, then I will consider it. But thats most likely years from now. They should just forget the announcements, do what they have to do, then if and when come out with an announcement when it's ready. it's that simple.
 
Yeah...it's crazy how many cameras have been introduced since Scarlet was first announced

Panasonic HMC150
Canon XHA1S (note the S)
Panasonic HVX 200A (note the A)
Sony AX2000/NX5
Nikon D90
NIkon D7000
Nikon D5100
Canon 5D MK2
Canon 7D
Canon T2i
Canon T3i
Canon 60D
Panasonic GH1
Panasonic GH2
Sony NEX VG10
Sony F3
Sony FS100
Panasonic AF100
Sony EX1R
Panasonic HPX 370
Panasonic HPX 170
Panasonic HMC 40/80
Canon XF300/305
Canon XF100/105

This is a very partial list not including JVC, high end consumer models, Sony's other hybrid cams, models I forgot, recently announced NAB models, etc, etc.
 
isle said:
No Scarlet or EPIC-S specs on NAB like everyone was waiting and the reason was Japan's earth quake! They can't give specs for the cameras because of the quake? That means the cameras aren't even close to be ready. It's understable that the production will not start as soon as hoped, but not giving the specs and using the earth quake as the excuse is... well, the quake gave them the extra time they needed and they capitalised on it.
Click to expand...

As a Japanese-American, this is insulting. Using the earthquake in Japan as an excuse to not release even details about your camera? Seriously? Is this a joke? They're based in America!
Yet the companies in Japan that were truly affected by the disaster - Sony, Canon, etc. - had their regular displays and new camera introductions. They're soldiering on, yet RED scurries away?
Using a disaster in another country, in which thousands died, as an excuse to hide your products is a cowardly act.
 
I agree with you.....I wasn't sure if my barometer was off though.
There are a number of things I find insulting about Red Co.
A.) Trashing other companies products, when they haven't released ANYTHING in anywhere NEAR the same price range as said products. It's an easy thing to do when no one can test your camera because it's not out YET. Hell I could say I'm starting a new camera company - Violet....and the Violet will feature 8K shooting, 20 stops of DR, etc. etc and then I could go and say " Yeah it's better than EVERYTHING...it's not for soccer Moms though, step up to the plate" Oh but by the way....I have NO idea when it's coming out!
B.) Trashing their customers/potential customers with comments like "Be a good customer" and things of that nature. Who in their right mind says things like that to people spending their hard earned dollars.
C.) The worst one yet as you illustrated vanvideo.

Red made a great camera, and should continue making others in the future...but I for one will NEVER buy their products. Why...because if as they say, "Everything is subject to change" - that to me means I can't trust them - for accessories, for new parts, future cameras.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top