RED Renames Scarlet - Now "Epic Light"

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henryolonga said:
VGurcu said:
that must be one hell of a martini, ;)
Things do change but not this one, your prediction is not happening in our lifetime, why?
Physics... According to it: " In the physics of photon counting, the noise in the signal is equal to the square root of the number of photons"
That s the end of the discussion. That means "a kick ass state of the art sensor in a box" will require a lot of photon that will ultimately require using more finite & an expensive source: (hatever)[/QUOTE

Ahem - who knows how soon this may trickle down but this is interesting http://www.tomshardware.com/news/black-silicon-photography,6485.html
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And you know what they say" Once you go black" , you know the rest. lol. By the way.
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milksac said:
I think your missing the point here. It's not about running out of money, it's that too much money can cloud the decision making process.
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That's true and I totally agree. There are a lot of similarities between how Jannard and Broussard acted. But 3D Realms shut down literally because they ran out of money. Broussard and Miller could not come to an agreement with Take Two to get more and they were still a couple of years away from releasing.

Except for the HDRx thing, I think the Epic and Scarlet designs were pretty much frozen some time ago. His engineering team just struggled with fixing bugs and problems. This is all normal in development but I think Jannard didn't realize this. He partially blames it on his engineers being optimistic and saying they could finish it faster than they really could. But any good engineer is actually very pessimistic. They know these programs are fraught with challenges, but they were probably afraid to tell a guy like Jannard the truth. He's not the type of guy I would want to get mad.
 
LowDown said:
Like "The Hobbit"?
http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=52300
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Just to be fair, here's the Alexa's feature film resume just from the Hollywood Reporter article:

The first feature to use the camera was Roland Emmerich’s Anonymous.

Among the first feature projects to use the Alexa are the Deschanel-lensed Killer Joe, directed by William Friedkin, and Andrew Niccol’s Now, lensed by Deakins

The Alexa also is the camera in use on two stereoscopic 3D productions: Martin Scorsese’s The Invention of Hugo Cabret and Paul W.S. Anderson’s The Three Musketeers.

Additional features using Alexa are Spy Kids 4, directed by Robert Rodriguez; Bernie, helmed by Richard Linklater; Drive, from Nicolas Winding Refn; and Two Days in New York, directed by Julie Delpy.
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Piolet said:
Everything could change if they shipped a stripped down 1080/60P camera, APS-C/S35 size and license an off-the-shelf 4:2:2 codec and sell the thing for $5K or less (if it can be done). This camera would do very well against the F3, AF100 and even the DSLRs. Huge demand is pent up right now for something like this at this price point.[/URL]
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That would be a great camera...but it won't happen.
 
Yeah, Scarlet S35 is gone. It was the low cost way to get into RED S35 size camera but that option is gone. Jannard said:

Scarlet S35 is now called EPIC Lite. The features have changed as has the price. I'll update in the next two weeks.

Changing Scarlet S35 to an EPIC name is only right. It is entirely based on the EPIC S35. Many people can't afford an EPIC-X and there are features in that camera that are expensive to produce and not needed by everyone... namely frame rates and data rates (plus a few others).
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Right there that tells you EPIC Lite is a crippled EPIC (which normally cost $28,000). There's no conceivable way an EPIC Lite will cost $8,000 anymore when it normally cost $28,000. They're going to charge more but it will have more features than Scarlet S35. But the Scarlet S35 dream (a low cost way to get into the RED system with an S35 size sensor) is gone!

Unfortunately many people are confused that it's just a name change and the dream lives on. RED could just come out and say that's not true, but they make you wait 2 weeks to find out.
 
Scarlet S35 was always a "crippled" Epic...a lot of people were asking for a name change for this very reason.



Also...not to get in a pissing match, but given that two of the highest budget productions are using Red cameras (Pirates and The Hobbit), I don't see quantity of Alexa projects as necessarily a measure of its quality.
 
greymog said:
Reason took away my Roland JV-1080, my mixers, my Otari Radar, all my gear. Made it worth nothing in a months. Five-Ten years after that I hear this, "Tarek, you don't have to play a musical instrument to be a musician," (I swear, from someone high up in the music scene here in Lebanon). I then hung up my headphones and started shooting super8mm. 19 years doing music related sound. Adat XTs, DA-88's, all gone. Mastering to CD, all gone. Now anyone with 500 bucks is a musician.

I totally know how you feel, but there's always this ray of light from the sky once in a blue moon when a 60-year old guitarist walks into the coffee shop and says, any one of you kids know how to get this on computer for me, whipping out a reel.

Again, in the short run, it feels like crap. But in the long run, when it's all shot to hell, and no one's making money with the Best Buy stuff cause its saturated, the ONLY way to make money in music will be to get up on stage, and shut everyone up with your guitar/drums/bass, whichever.

So yeah. It'll come down to my god everyone's a DP. Then one day, someone will place a light somewhere really special, and it'll be about where you put your lights/mic/etc.

It's a cycle. And yes, Reason took everything away. That said I love reason. Logic is really driving me mad on the other hand.
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you are right...it all goes back to marshall mccluahans (don't think I spelled that right) theory of technology determinism. Music and audio has already predicted the future. 3 years ago i started my current 9-5 in a company I can't name but will say is prety big in the camera game (not a manufacturer) and I was constantly trying to tell documentary film makers that they'd have to go tapeless and they're better off being early to the party as opposed to late, I said look the audio world has been tapeless for damn near a decade. but nope film maker want to be stuborn. and look at the "game" now? it's all solid state, and those guys are now playing catch up.
price will determine a lot. as an audio hobbyist I was faced with the software vs hardware debate 8 years ago when the korg triton was all the rage (in pop and hip hop production). but as a college kid I had limmited $ and someone introduced me to REASON. I ended uop getting reason and a bunch of controllers (cause no matter how good software is, mouse clicking is no way to make music). I grew from REASON to Sonar...still rewire REASON into SONAR. Developed a Refill and VST addiction...but something was always missing I wanted something that could do what an MPC does. There was nothing now REASON 5 has KONG and I bought an MPD32 controller and my wish is granted (close but no cigar but I'll live with it)...I can't stand logic or FL studio becuase there ia no actual basis for the UI, Reason looks like a studio, I recognize racks and routing FL studio makes no sense to be (and I'm a 80s baby!).
Anyways the Point is that music and audio has already writen the road map for what will happen with Digital film making. but Film/Celluloid will Always be the AKAI MPC.
I despised the DSLR movement because it created so many falsehoods. (vista vision sensor allowing full retard shallow DOF). And I had to deal with more and more people who didn't know wtf they were doing trying to be or claiming to be "filmmakers". and honestly outside of shallow DOf the images from those thing were shyte...
Yeah the end is near, Hip Hop kats are now jumping to video/film making. and that more than anything tell me it's OVER
oh yeah before anyone takes offense to my comment about hip hop kats. I'm one, I've produced a couple of Records...But I do have a BFA from a proper film school and I'm a film maker first. the music is a hobby...My point is that when I notice certain ppl jumping into something with no base, I know it's become a hustle and It's about to get heavily saturated. Hourly rates are about to go WAY down and Clients are goint to be expecting more for less.​
 
Piolet said:
Yeah, Scarlet S35 is gone. It was the low cost way to get into RED S35 size camera but that option is gone. Jannard said:

Right there that tells you EPIC Lite is a crippled EPIC (which normally cost $28,000). There's no conceivable way an EPIC Lite will cost $8,000 anymore when it normally cost $28,000. They're going to charge more but it will have more features than Scarlet S35. But the Scarlet S35 dream (a low cost way to get into the RED system with an S35 size sensor) is gone!

Unfortunately many people are confused that it's just a name change and the dream lives on. RED could just come out and say that's not true, but they make you wait 2 weeks to find out.
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I guess I had taken the feature/price change remark to account for the extra horsepower added for HDRx, and the increased price associated with that. I do, however, see the interpretation that it could mean feature/price change in addition to those.

Time will tell, and I find it easier not to worry about anything until it's all finalized and ready to ship.
 
Gabrobot said:
Scarlet S35 was always a "crippled" Epic...a lot of people were asking for a name change for this very reason.



Also...not to get in a pissing match, but given that two of the highest budget productions are using Red cameras (Pirates and The Hobbit), I don't see quantity of Alexa projects as necessarily a measure of its quality.
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To start, it does give Red credit that productions choose their cameras, and I am a fan of both Arri and Red. With that said, I don't think these examples are a litmus test of a camera's quality over another. Let's be fair, Jackson has always been a staunch Red fan, so this is not a surprise, just as I'm sure S.Sodenberg's next film will be a Red product.... also Pirates went digital (ala RED) because if you're doing 3D, digital is almost 100% a must... as the stereographer on set needs to ensure proper alignment of the image and rig. Something two film-cameras would not be able to guarantee. I have a suspicion they would have stayed celluloid had it not been 3D. They went RED-MX most likely because p.photography for 'Pirates4' began in June 2010... in a time where Red-MX cameras were readily available and already panavised tried and true in woodland hills. Meanwhile, it was weeks later in July the Arri Alexa was just being delivered to top rental houses such as Clairmont, Otto Nemenz, Arri CSC, and etc.... well after photography started and in very limited numbers.

So despite Pirates choosing Panavised RedMX's over Panavision Genesis, Sony F35's and other great cinema cameras, I would not use their decision to use Red-MX cameras as a point or counter-point against the quality or performance of celluloid film or the Arri Alexa, as they were not options within these circumstances. However, as stated, it does lend Red credit for being picked over other options available at that time, and who's to say that had Alexa been available they would have gone with it. We just don't know.

I don't want to start a digital versus film debate, but fun fact, the majority of major motion pictures are still shot on film, although we are all in agreement that is on the way out. As far as Alexa, it will continue to be a very amazing camera and fierce competitor to any digital cinema camera. The same goes with Red, which has certainly proven itself a worthy opponent as well. I will predict we will see some amazing films shot on both, with the decision between the two solely on the aesthetic preferences of directors or DP's.


(Let me be clear, I am discussing RedMX and Alexa... cameras which are out and available now.)
 
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Ryan Patrick O'Hara said:
To start, it does give Red credit that productions choose their cameras, and I am a fan of both Arri and Red. With that said, I don't think these examples are a litmus test of a camera's quality over another. Let's be fair, Jackson has always been a staunch Red fan, so this is not a surprise, just as I'm sure S.Sodenberg's next film will be a Red product.... also Pirates went digital (ala RED) because if you're doing 3D, digital is almost 100% a must... as the stereographer on set needs to ensure proper alignment of the image and rig. Something two film-cameras would not be able to guarantee. I have a suspicion they would have stayed celluloid had it not been 3D. They went RED-MX most likely because p.photography for 'Pirates4' began in June 2010... in a time where Red-MX cameras were readily available and already panavised tried and true in woodland hills. Meanwhile, it was weeks later in July the Arri Alexa was just being delivered to top rental houses such as Clairmont, Otto Nemenz, Arri CSC, and etc.... well after photography started and in very limited numbers.

So despite Pirates choosing Panavised RedMX's over Panavision Genesis, Sony F35's and other great cinema cameras, I would not use their decision to use Red-MX cameras as a point or counter-point against the quality or performance of celluloid film or the Arri Alexa, as they were not options within these circumstances.

I don't want to start a digital versus film debate, but fun fact, the majority of major motion pictures are still shot on film, although we are all in agreement that is on the way out. As far as Alexa, it will continue to be a very amazing camera and fierce competitor to any digital cinema camera. The same goes with Red, which has certainly proven itself a worthy opponent as well. I will predict we will see some amazing films shot on both, with the decision between the two solely on the aesthetic preferences of directors or DP's.


(Let me be clear, I am discussing RedMX and Alexa... cameras which are out and available now.)
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Great points, and really we're talking about the best of the digital cinema cameras with Red and Alexa. I just think it's premature to declare any one camera as the dominate "Hollywood" digital camera...like you said, there are aesthetic preferences just like with different film stocks.
 
Here is a question that may only breed speculation... but follow the logic and see if there might be an issue.

1) Red Epic production delayed except for time consuming and expensive handbuilt 'pre-production line' models.
2) These pre-production line' models have been speculated to not be high in number... perhaps under 100?
3) Peter Jackson wants 30 for the hobbit.
4) The hobbit is currently slated to commence photography February 2011. (according to IMDB)
5) That is eight weeks away, twelve for the end of February.

At eight weeks, that is one Epic every 1.8 days.

So, despite this not being my business, it seems there might be a larger fire under the bottoms of those guys hand-building the units. And additionally to those individuals who hope to get one, they should probably expect 30% or more of the total number of units to be going elsewhere. If you thought you might be the 1 in 100 people to get a pre-production model, you might be 1 in 70. Furthermore, this could all be for naught if Red took this into account from the start.

Who knows, but interesting to think about.
 
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Ryan Patrick O'Hara said:
Here is a question that may only breed speculation... but follow the logic and see if there might be an issue.

1) Red Epic production delayed except for time consuming and expensive handbuilt 'pre-production line' models.
2) These pre-production line' models have been speculated to not be high in number... perhaps under 100?
3) Peter Jackson wants 30 for the hobbit.
4) The hobbit is currently slated to commence photography February 2011. (according to IMDB)
5) That is eight weeks away, twelve for the end of February.

So, despite this not being my business, it seems there might be a larger fire under the bottoms of those guys hand-building the units. And additionally to those individuals who hope to get one, they should probably expect 30% or more of the total number of units to be going elsewhere. If you thought you might be the 1 in 100 people to get a pre-production model, you might be 1 in 70. Furthermore, this could all be for naught if Red took this into account from the start.

Who knows, but interesting to think about.
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I can't see them handbuilding them for any other reason.
 
Ahem - who knows how soon this may trickle down but this is interesting http://www.tomshardware.com/news/bla...aphy,6485.html
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Nice find, good read.
I ve witnessed the demise of many bright ideas about improving efficiency of silicons, ever since I am interested in photovoltaics. (solar power generation industry heavily relies on silicon)
Article states:

During an Army-funded study of what new chemistry may occur when a laser is shone on metals, the team decided to also see what a femtosecond laser would do to silicon. They put a piece of silicon in a vacuum chamber, added halogen gas and then scanned the silicon with highly-intense laser pulses. After hundreds of pulses, the silicon turned black...
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That doesnt sound like a cost effective alternative to simply using readily available silicon, does it? There is no indication whatsoever that it is economically viable. That s number one reason why many bright ideas never see the light of the day.
Consumer electronic such as cell phones and other mobile devices probably would benefit more...
 
The Scarlet is still listed on the Red web site as "Coming Soon" if Jim is not careful he might be asking for a truth in advertising suite, I may be wrong but I thought that some software companies got in trouble in the 90's for promoting vaporware.
 
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