GH13 RANT! - Why are Canon HDSLR filmers like Apple junkies?

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Benedict said:
Why do people perpetuate this lie? iOS isn't more popular at all. Android by far wins in market share worldwide; http://www.comscore.com/Press_Event...uary_2012_U.S._Mobile_Subscriber_Market_Share
I'd much rather have and use a Samsung Galaxy SIII or htc One X Android smartphone than give in to some weaker Apple product just because it's trendy.
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Um....but from my perspective what he said is true. What he is saying is the accessories for the iPad is much much easier to come by that it is for Android products. I have the latest ASUS tablet. As far as I am concerned spec wise it is the best tablet on the market. But...everywhere I go...all I see are iPad and iPhone accessories. Like Canon Apple has a v ery powerful marketing machine.
 
I feel one reason why the Canons are easier to market is because when presenting footage to non-filmmakers, it's easy to wow the average Joe with bokeh, something the 5D excels at. I know I was wowed when I first bought a 7D. But as time went on and my taste developed, I realized I didn't care much for shallow DOF. Stopping down my lenses only revealed the achilles heel of Canon DSLRs: moiré. As such, I was forced to sell my 7D and upgrade to a GH2 because the Canon DSLR simply became the wrong tool for the job (deep focus landscapes).

Also, I'm not sure I understand the term "Apple junky." I've been using strictly Apple stuff since FCP5, but never would I look at a PC and think: "you're using a PC for video??" because I know enough about computers to realize that that's a ridiculous thing to say. Come to think of it, not once have I ever encountered the stereotypical self-righteous Apple-owner (although I've been berated by many PC fanatics because they assume I'm a self-righteous fanboy simply because I prefer Apple).

I do somewhat understand what you're getting at though. I got my fair share of filmmaker hobbyists turn their nose up at my 7D because it "wasn't full frame and has inferior bokeh." Even more so now that I use a GH2. Oddly enough, while I'm out using my camera to portray a subject, they're out shaping their subject to show off their DOF (every single shot being wide open with sloppy focus pulling and random objects in the foreground for no reason other than to show off bokeh).
 
"the Canon DSLR simply became the wrong tool for the job (deep focus landscapes)'

Absolutely. if that was primarily what I shot I would have bought a different camera. The 5D excels in medium and closeup shots which are the meat and potatoes of narrative filmmaking. In narrative wide shots are just there to connect the closeups.
 
Ian-T said:
Um....but from my perspective what he said is true. What he is saying is the accessories for the iPad is much much easier to come by that it is for Android products. I have the latest ASUS tablet. As far as I am concerned spec wise it is the best tablet on the market. But...everywhere I go...all I see are iPad and iPhone accessories. Like Canon Apple has a v ery powerful marketing machine.
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I couldn't agree more Ian! 90% of it is marketing! I just smirk anymore when I hear that the only way to go is the Mac for editing and the Canon for DSLR. I'm tired of having to discuss the same thing over and over, even share links. You can tell people something over, but if they've already been "brainwashed" into thinking one way (because of ads and marketing) it becomes VERY difficult to make anything you say stick.

Also I think in this case people feel that size matters ;)
A T2i owner looked at my gh2 and said it's too small. LOL happened to be a woman that said that.
So I said, I've been told that before.

And Benedict, very few people I know have anything other than apple. I do not have any apple product, not even ipod and everyone thinks I'm weird.
 
M. Gilden said:
But there is not single Android device that even comes close to the marketshare of any single Apple device.
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You only have to combine two brands using the exact same version of Android and you'll already lose with ANY Apple device. I see why you feel the need to defend your statement, but it's still all lies. iOS is NOT more popular than Android, period. And that is why I tell you you are perpetuating a lie with this, again. You clearly have too little understanding of Android, its users, its market worldwide and its possibilities. I urge you to go here and perhaps you'll finally see that world of popularity open up for you. I have never had one problem finding an iOS replacement. In fact, my wife uses iPhones, she's had them ever since the first one, not one application or accessory did not have a similar or higher quality replica for my phone on android. If you're anywhere close to technically gifted you'll realize soon enough that those Apple products are pathetic.

Oh and by the way, my Android products have paid for themselves 10 times over, I make money using them. You can't argue with that.
 
I understand your point there Benedict, but Apple controls 90 percent of the tablet market and 40 percent of the smart phone market. They also just passed 25 billion application downloads. They are a larger corporation now than Google and Microsoft combined. They used to be David, now they are Goliath on steroids...
 
Rick Burnett said:
My iPad makes me money. It's paid for itself about 5 times over. I can't argue with that.
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Benedict said:
Oh and by the way, my Android products have paid for themselves 10 times over, I make money using them. You can't argue with that.
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Nice platitudes, but I'd like to hear explicitly how the iPad/Android tablets have made you money, especially in a way that another computing device would not have.

I'm curious as to what this means exactly.
 
gonzo_entertainment said:
"the Canon DSLR simply became the wrong tool for the job (deep focus landscapes)'

Absolutely. if that was primarily what I shot I would have bought a different camera. The 5D excels in medium and closeup shots which are the meat and potatoes of narrative filmmaking. In narrative wide shots are just there to connect the closeups.
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I do not fully agree with this... I'd say the heart of super indie-cinema is medium shots and close ups. because they dont have the production value to go bigger, but traditional narrative cinema is a widescreen wide angle market, to show siz. Terrence Malick, Speilberg, Ridley Scott, etc. all have a great handle on using master shots and wide shots to do more than set the scene.

I agree that the closeups are for the emotional moments, faces say alot, but wides are simply not just connectors.
 
Gary Huff said:
Nice platitudes, but I'd like to hear explicitly how the iPad/Android tablets have made you money, especially in a way that another computing device would not have.

I'm curious as to what this means exactly.
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I do a VJ night once a month and use an Ipad to remotely control the software I wrote to mix videos. I spent a long time looking at many solutions and going through 3 or 4 hardware MIDI controllers when I finally saw the Jazzmutant Lemur that Daft Punk uses in their live shows. Once TouchOSC was released, as my software communicates with OSC, I was able to create an interface on the iPad and ditch the hardware controllers altogether. Now, people come out just to see my "futuristic" mixing setup, and I never have to buy a MIDI controller again that doesn't fit my ever changing designs for better VJIng :). So it draws people in to see my use of the system, as when I tell them what I am doing, word gets around and every night I have to show 3 or 4 people how the whole system works as they are fascinated.

I am able to control the whole system wirelessly anywhere in the club. Other solutions exist, but this system is great and makes my job easier.
 
Can we please keep the mac v PC debate out of this. And while we're on it the iapple whatever v android etc. Will get the thread closed.

Not quite sure why this thread even exists.
 
Benedict said:
You only have to combine two brands using the exact same version of Android and you'll already lose with ANY Apple device. I see why you feel the need to defend your statement, but it's still all lies. iOS is NOT more popular than Android, period. And that is why I tell you you are perpetuating a lie with this, again. You clearly have too little understanding of Android, its users, its market worldwide and its possibilities. I urge you to go here and perhaps you'll finally see that world of popularity open up for you. I have never had one problem finding an iOS replacement. In fact, my wife uses iPhones, she's had them ever since the first one, not one application or accessory did not have a similar or higher quality replica for my phone on android. If you're anywhere close to technically gifted you'll realize soon enough that those Apple products are pathetic.

Oh and by the way, my Android products have paid for themselves 10 times over, I make money using them. You can't argue with that.
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The problem here is you don't get why Apple products are popular, it's never been about being the absolute fastest, or cutting edge, it's always been about experience. I've never once said that Apple iPad/iPod products are superior from a technical level, because I know first hand they are not. I help design mobile processors that are definitely faster than the Apple processors used in their products, like the A5 and A5X. So I'd say, I am pretty technically gifted. Yet, I cannot deny that iOS is a better platform at the moment in my opinion. Just power management and multi-processing on the Android platform alone is a pain in the neck and something I never have to even worry about on my iOS devices. It's just a better design. Many of the downfalls are being addressed by Google, and that's a good thing. Yes, there are solutions, but having to even worry about finding a solution is just a big glaring hole in the design of the OS in the first place.

But, it doesn't change the fact that there are more accessories available at more locations for the iOS platform. And for the exact reason is there is too much diversity in designs for the Android platform, so people just don't seem to be mass producing useful products that are easy to get.

I want Android to be a better platform, and I am hoping Ice Cream Sandwich helps to give the OS some more flexibility across the various hardware implementations, but it has a long way to go. Resolution independence will be a huge step and a big hurdle developers have been struggling with. But the thing is, Microsoft is about to light a fire under Google's platform because Windows 8 mobile is pretty cool, and I am saying that as an Apple user. They have put HUGE amounts of effort into their OS and it's starting to look very useful. It's going to be VERY interesting to see what happens. Experience is what matters, not power, and the average user doesn't want to deal with super deep menus and having to police their OS. My mom could care less if her phone was Android or not, she just went for the cheapest smart phone. If the microsoft solution is cheaper AND easier to use than Android, it's going to hurt the Android market share AND Apple (which is why Microsoft has put so much into this release).

And you know, the iPad3 actually has a screen that surpasses ALL other tablets at the moment, so I can't see it being "pathetic" in that regard. But then again, the screen is Samsung's, so I imagine it won't be on the iPad alone for too long.

To take this back to topic, I see the same thing between say the Panasonic and the Canon DSLR, as I said earlier. I think the GH2 *hacked* is a better camera than any of the Canon DSLRs FOR VIDEO ONLY. But it's a still camera, and at that, just not as good. But, the problem isn't complaining to the Canon users, the problem is, complaining to Panasonic for doing such a crappy job marketing their camera AND a crappy job with the built in codec. Had the GH2 not been hackable, we'd not be having these conversations I feel. And the average user is not going to want to hack their camera, whether that be hacking the GH2 or any Canon DSLR.

If I am shooting on my 7D and it dies, I can drive down the road to 10+ stores and get a replacement. If my EOS lens breaks, I can do the same thing with about 5 stores within a 10 mile radius. I simply cannot do that with a GH2. It's just not anywhere locally. So as a stills camera, I think it pretty much fails in the consumer market that it is targeted for.

At least with Canon, they have such a HUGE market share, I feel confident that they'll continue to make still cameras with video features because they make SO MUCH money off of them. I can't say I feel the same way with the GH2. It's just not ubiquitous enough yet. I really wish Panasonic would push it harder and make it something joe six-pack buys. Until they do that, it's gonna be the underdog, the betamax of this generation. Hopefully they do something more with the GH3, but then again, they might just not be interested.

And I gotta laugh at this topic in general, because i hear just as many GH2 users acting like Apple Junkies as I do Canon users. Just as I hear Red users, F3 users, FS100 users, AF100 users. People get passionate about the equipment they use.

I personally like that my wife uses Android and I use the iPhone, that way, we get the best of both worlds. Neither platform is perfect.
 
Rick Burnett said:
To take this back to topic, I see the same thing between say the Panasonic and the Canon DSLR, as I said earlier. I think the GH2 *hacked* is a better camera than any of the Canon DSLRs FOR VIDEO ONLY. But it's a still camera, and at that, just not as good. But, the problem isn't complaining to the Canon users, the problem is, complaining to Panasonic for doing such a crappy job marketing their camera AND a crappy job with the built in codec. Had the GH2 not been hackable, we'd not be having these conversations I feel. And the average user is not going to want to hack their camera, whether that be hacking the GH2 or any Canon DSLR.

If I am shooting on my 7D and it dies, I can drive down the road to 10+ stores and get a replacement. If my EOS lens breaks, I can do the same thing with about 5 stores within a 10 mile radius. I simply cannot do that with a GH2. It's just not anywhere locally. So as a stills camera, I think it pretty much fails in the consumer market that it is targeted for.

At least with Canon, they have such a HUGE market share, I feel confident that they'll continue to make still cameras with video features because they make SO MUCH money off of them. I can't say I feel the same way with the GH2. It's just not ubiquitous enough yet. I really wish Panasonic would push it harder and make it something joe six-pack buys. Until they do that, it's gonna be the underdog, the betamax of this generation. Hopefully they do something more with the GH3, but then again, they might just not be interested.

And I gotta laugh at this topic in general, because i hear just as many GH2 users acting like Apple Junkies as I do Canon users. Just as I hear Red users, F3 users, FS100 users, AF100 users. People get passionate about the equipment they use.

I personally like that my wife uses Android and I use the iPhone, that way, we get the best of both worlds. Neither platform is perfect.
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I think South Eastern camera(Near US) has the GH2 and they have the entire lens lineup as well. They aren't cheap but they are a good group of guys. You can always get 1 day shipping from Amazon as well.

I really don't think that the hack is what makes all the difference. Yes it makes it better. However, I can shoot unhacked footage that looks just as good in most situations. It is just those few situations where the hack can help out with a very specific need.

Are you still shooting with the AF100? If the hack makes such a huge difference why haven't you switched to a GH2?
 
mpgxsvcd said:
I think South Eastern camera(Near US) has the GH2 and they have the entire lens lineup as well. They aren't cheap but they are a good group of guys. You can always get 1 day shipping from Amazon as well.

I really don't think that the hack is what makes all the difference. Yes it makes it better. However, I can shoot unhacked footage that looks just as good in most situations. It is just those few situations where the hack can help out with a very specific need.

Are you still shooting with the AF100? If the hack makes such a huge difference why haven't you switched to a GH2?
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Last time I was in there they didn't have any GH2 or m4/3 lenses, but, it's been awhile. At the time I asked them about the GH2 and the AF100 and they told me they weren't considering selling them. Same thing with Peace cameras as well. And I agree, I love the guys at South Eastern.

No, I sold the AF100 after I got the FS100 and used them both for a bit.
 
Rick Burnett said:
Last time I was in there they didn't have any GH2 or m4/3 lenses, but, it's been awhile. At the time I asked them about the GH2 and the AF100 and they told me they weren't considering selling them. Same thing with Peace cameras as well. And I agree, I love the guys at South Eastern.

No, I sold the AF100 after I got the FS100 and used them both for a bit.
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I was in South Eastern at Christmas and they had every m4/3s product I have ever heard of except for the AF100. How do you like the FS100?
 
mpgxsvcd said:
I was in South Eastern at Christmas and they had every m4/3s product I have ever heard of except for the AF100. How do you like the FS100?
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Well then I will have to check out their new space! :) That's good to know it's getting easier to get m4/3 products (well at least at one store) where we are. Maybe that will mean more people will start using them locally.

I want Panasonic to exceed with the GH line, in fact, I'd love if they focused on it even more from a video perspective and pushed the GH line into something akin to the C300 myself.

And the FS100 question is too big and off-topic to answer here! Haha. I've written about it quite a bit. It's a love/hate relationship. :)
 
I've only handled one briefly, but I'd say step one is a major overhaul of the menus. People complain about it all the time, how cryptic and hard to navigate (and find things) they are. I imagine that rep hasn't helped sales.
 
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