PC/Windows NLE Mess - Jan - what can be done?

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Barry_Green said:
I can tell you as having been a software developer that yes, Microsoft and Apple do provide extensive SDK's. And yes, they do charge money for them. And no, there's no way that they'd take 50% responsibility for our software engineering! That's preposterous. We would do 95 to 98%%, and Microsoft or Apple tech assistance would be there to help with the integration when necessary.
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I'm not talking about Panny (or MS) writing the code. I'm talking about having the infrastructure in place to make adoption easy e.g:

(1) Free native playback codec
(2) Free MXF wrapper utilities
(3) Extensive work to insure NLE support is broad and effective (which is what we are debating here
(4) PR/Whitepaper etc. on editing & post workflow (seems like the DVX had more of this on release)
 
CMessineo said:
I imagine Panasonic would love nothing more than have every editing system on the market support their codec. I doubt very much it is Panasonic dragging their feet on this.
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Again, the codec is not the problem.

You can download a free codec from Avid.

You can get one soon from MainConcept.

You can get one from DVFilm.

It's supporting the file system and supporting the 80+ different shooting modes in the NLE that's the issue.
 
Jarred Land said:
sorry john hudson took over my keyboard for a moment.
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That's okay, where is he? I thought he would be blasting all of us in this thread :evil:


and here you go again.. your dancing around the truth. NO other camera in HISTORY has shot HD on P2 with a wrapper. No other camera in history has shot HD on P2.. so what the hell are you saying isn't new? kinda like saying the new Ferrari isnt new because it still uses tires.
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I'm not dancing around the truth. just pointing out that components for DVCPro-HD P2 existed prior to the HVX release i.e. I don't expecte 24p 1080 support immediately as that's new to the HVX, but MXF, 720p, 1080i and variable frame have been around and files available to test on.
 
Barry_Green said:
Again, the codec is not the problem.

You can download a free codec from Avid.

You can get one soon from MainConcept.

You can get one from DVFilm.

It's supporting the file system and supporting the 80+ different shooting modes in the NLE that's the issue.
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The free Avid codec did not work well on my system (kept crashing AE and Vegas as well as not listing itself to the system properly. Not a solution.
 
Barry_Green said:
Simply not true. Have you been talking to the NLE manufacturers? I have. The HVX does things no DVCPRO-HD camera has done before.
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That's a valid point. But they could still announce forthcoming support and offer some basic support fairly soon.

I'm just disagreeing over the concept that a) there's no support at all, or b) that Panasonic hasn't been taking extraordinary efforts to line up support before launch, because they most definitely did.
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You must be seeing extraordinary efforts that we are not. In my efforts to find out, the response I usually got was "we have not heard from Panasonic" or "we are waiting on Panasonic".
 
Steve Jobs stratagy

Steve Jobs stratagy

Hi All
Great forum here.

A colleague of mine went to LA. several years back and worked on the original Spiderman. Which won an Oscar for fxs. He has been on group that consult regularly with Mr. Jobs and I am told Mr. Job's plan is to make FCP-Pro the number one app for video/film editors.
Do you know of any other company actually consulting the users?? Panny does with Barry and Jarred. Any others??

bill dunn
Ottawa
 
stephenvv said:
I'm not talking about Panny (or MS) writing the code. I'm talking about having the infrastructure in place to make adoption easy e.g:

(1) Free native playback codec
(2) Free MXF wrapper utilities
(3) Extensive work to insure NLE support is broad and effective (which is what we are debating here
(4) PR/Whitepaper etc. on editing & post workflow (seems like the DVX had more of this on release)
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(1) Jesus.. you get this with the camera, a P2 Player application. Come on man.. do your homework.
(2) dude.. its XML.. come on programer.
(3) again.. they offer it. they cant force NLE makers to use thier software.. just like Microsoft cant force Apple to run windows.
(4) lol.. ok im not sure where you have been, cause there are many many public whitepapers from Panasonic about workflow.. and the HVX manual has an entire chapter on editing.
 
Jarred Land said:
(1) Jesus.. you get this with the camera, a P2 Player application. Come on man.. do your homework.
(2) dude.. its XML.. come on programer.
(3) again.. they offer it. they cant force NLE makers to use thier software.. just like Microsoft cant force Apple to run windows.
(4) lol.. ok im not sure where you have been, cause there are many many public whitepapers from Panasonic about workflow.. and the HVX manual has an entire chapter on editing.
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(1) I'm talking about installable codec like Avids, not a player app
(2) Are you suggesting people write their own utilities?
(3) This thread :beer:
(4) I'm talking not talking about the P2 workflow, I'm talking about NLE specifically.
 
stephenvv said:
"Primer" was cut on cheap ass PC with Premier 5.
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It had to be fixed in FCP for film matchback.

"A good example is the fact I edited the film with Adobe Premiere. In addition to it continually crashing, I have found that it is just not cut out for proper film work, where something like Final Cut Pro is. Premiere is fine for home videos, but it lacks certain features that restricted what I could do and how seamlessly I could work with the sound."

- Shane Carruth, Director of "Primer"
 
stephenvv said:
I'm not talking about Panny (or MS) writing the code. I'm talking about having the infrastructure in place to make adoption easy e.g:

(1) Free native playback codec
(2) Free MXF wrapper utilities
(3) Extensive work to insure NLE support is broad and effective (which is what we are debating here
(4) PR/Whitepaper etc. on editing & post workflow (seems like the DVX had more of this on release)
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From what I understand, all of that is available if you pay the licensing fee and join the partner program.

Just like you have to pay to be an Apple Certified developer or a Microsoft Certified developer or a Nintendo or Sega or whatever certified developer. (but again, I've been out of programming for 7 years so things may be different now)
 
stephenvv said:
The free Avid codec did not work well on my system (kept crashing AE and Vegas as well as not listing itself to the system properly. Not a solution.
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Works fine on mine, it's just slow is all.
 
Dahopafilms said:
I'm very high on the waiting list for the HVX - but realistically am I going to have to go out an purchase a G5 to replace (for editing purposes for this camera only) my three-month-old PC 3.2 GHz dual core running Vegas 6.0?
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Wrong decision at first hand (hope this is the good expression). No announcements nothing at the Wintel front at that time. Didn't that make you nervous? And why didn't it make you wait before purchasing a potentially wrong system?

Feeling sorry for ya, mate. I'm on a Mac since 1984. Never ever felt sorry about that.
 
stephenvv said:
That's a valid point. But they could still announce forthcoming support and offer some basic support fairly soon.
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I am in complete agreement. Unfortunately they do not see it that way. They save their announcements for press events. In the years I've been following Vegas, I don't think they've ever hinted at a forthcoming feature, they just spring it on us fully-formed. I don't think FCP has hinted at forthcoming features either, have they? It's not like these companies to do that.

I would think it would be in their best interest to do so. But they will do things as they see fit.


You must be seeing extraordinary efforts that we are not. In my efforts to find out, the response I usually got was "we have not heard from Panasonic" or "we are waiting on Panasonic".
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Okay, please work with me on this: there are six NLE's that I can think of that have any sort of market share at all, right? Four actually, but I'm being generous. There's Avid, FCP, Vegas, and Premiere Pro. Then the other two are Canopus and Pinnacle.

Avid has full MXF and some DVCPRO-HD support across their entire lineup, from Express on up to Symphony, and Newscutter, and Adrenaline, and all sorts of things that I don't even know what they are.

FCP has full native support of every frame rate and every mode that the HVX shoots.

Canopus reportedly has full native support, including better MXF support than all the others.

Liquid even has partial support -- it has MXF and DVCPRO50 integration right now. They just have to add HD and 24p support, something they've needed for a long time, and they're "there". And seeing as they're now a division of Avid, it certainly seems reasonable to expect HD support with the Avid codec.

So that leaves Vegas and Premiere. They will not speak about what they're doing. They may or may not have support. People have repeatedly said that Premiere Pro 2.0 should have support; you can get support now in 1.5 with the Matrox Axio HD. And both can have some degree of support by using DVFilm's Raylight.

So -- please explain to me where the big panic is and who's waiting? If you can point me to someone who's waiting, I'll wear my knuckles out with e-mail to pester everyone I know on both sides of the fence.
 
whoever just posted the inline bloody 1200 pixel wide screen grabs please repost as a link.. dont screw up the layout like that again, thanks.
 
Hehehe, sorry Jarred, I did it because I thought that we are all in 1920x1200 HD but unfortunetaly we are not.

Until PC users finally SWITCH to Mac they could use DVFilm Maker. I just test it on my VIRTUAL PC 7 that should be the weakest PC you could get AND IT WORKS. Wait a week and DVFilm will finish the software, buy it and you are on the HORSE. Use your PC with AVI or QT files and edit on whatever NLE you have that also supports probably DVCPRO HD or DVFilm could convert in another formats. Maybe now CINEFORM can enter in the game and do the HELP. Just an idea, sorry. Have a look on the two desktop screen shots and see that I drug and drop Kaku Ito's original MFX to desktop of Virtual PC that running XP Pro SP2 and I dragged that MFX in DVFilmMaker and DID IT or get it my "newmovie" file. Also much more in details is described at

http://www.dvfilm.com/hvx200/index.htm

Here are the downscaled screen shots in 720 px wide
Screen shot 1

DVFilm_MFX_VirtualPC2.jpg


Screen shot 2

DVFilm_MFX_QTmov2.jpg



Here are the original screen shots in 1920x1200 HD Cinema Display size to download

http://www.sanjinjukic.com/DVFilm_MFX_QTmov.jpg

http://www.sanjinjukic.com/DVFilm_MFX_VirtualPC.jpg


SJUSER
--------------------

http://www.sanjinjukic.com/index_panasonicHD_P2.html
 
Barry_Green said:
I would have posted it in its own thread but I've been in this thread all morning... :thumbsup:
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I'm to blame :laugh:

but that actually looks pretty promising - wow - Marcus, putting everybody to shame.
 
Jarred and Barry,

I think you both share a valid view on this situation - which seems to center on compatibility concerns of Vegas users. I am also of the mind that it is not in Panasonic or Sony's best interest to keep their markets in the dark.

On the opening logo screen and the $600 blue box that accompany the Vegas software solution, the words "Professional HD Video and Audio Editing Software" plainly state Sony's position on just what it is that they believe they're offering.

Ten years ago, we had to go to an online production house to get a client's logo extruded for broadcast - hell, everything had to be onlined. We live in a different time, and communicating with and understanding the needs of your market is more important than ever. Blink and you might miss any chance at your share.

To say Vegas is consumer or prosumer or that Panasonic has moved the DVX into "broadcast" or "professional" from prosumer is an easy way to explain or excuse away just about anything.


We represent a quickly growing segment of the middle market - people are creating features and broadcast television from resources and facilities that would historically be considered (and still border on being) laughable.

In one of these "edit suites" you might find a $200 DV camcorder for capturing parked next to a $1200 program monitor. The obligitory stacks of mixed external drives and a healthy tangle of cable all sit atop the same desk where someone pays the utility bills and looks at porn on Saturday night (that's what I've heard anyway).

We previsualize content, pitch and edit supporting media for broadcast television in Vegas. Long-form work cannot feasibly be done here, but we rely on Vegas nonetheless for these important elements.

Panasonic and Sony should state their position on the matter - perhaps someone just got on the phone in a bad mood one day and... well, we all regret something we've done or said in our past.

Sony, Panasonic - get past it. Communicate what is happening and then get it done for the sake of your customers.

e
 
stephenvv said:
I'm to blame :laugh:
but that actually looks pretty promising - wow - Marcus, putting everybody to shame.
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and in the immortal words of Rosanna Rosanna Dan, "oh . . . never mind!"

Go Marcus!!!
 
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