PC/Windows NLE Mess - Jan - what can be done?

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stephenvv said:
I'm to blame :laugh:

but that actually looks pretty promising - wow - Marcus, putting everybody to shame.
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And here's the thing -- if it's using his own codec, and it delivers realtime performance, this could actually be quite viable.

With the Apple you have to "import P2" and unwrap/rewrap it, then you get to use their realtime codec.

If Marcus can deliver an equally-fast unwrap/rewrap and an equally fast codec, then... well, then the situation could be almost as workable as the Apple. Only glaring lack at that point would be live capture, but hopefully Serious Magic will take care of that.

I haven't cared for the workaround too much with Maker/Avid Codec, that's for sure -- but this new announcement seems to totally solve the problem. Gotta love Marcus Van Bavel -- he was first to give us 24p support for the DVX, and it looks like he's going to do it again here.
 
Barry_Green said:
Gotta love Marcus Van Bavel -- he was first to give us 24p support for the DVX, and it looks like he's going to do it again here.
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i'm sure he's a great guy and that he knows what he's doing but he should get a few facts on his websites correct if he want to be taken for real:

"...The Panasonic HVX200 can record 1920 x 1080 at 24P (actually 23.976), with 2:3:3:2 (Advanced) pulldown, and this is the recommended recording mode for transfer to film.
he movie is stored on the P2 card as a 1920 x 1080i .mxf file, at 29.97 frames/sec for compatibility with standard HD editing systems such as FCP-HD and Avid Express Pro HD. "

native DVCPRO HD at 1920x1080? i dont think so.
zem
 
dregenthal said:
and in the immortal words of Rosanna Rosanna Dan, "oh . . . never mind!"

Go Marcus!!!
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I'll say. If it works as the intro page states, it will be a extremely huge "never mind" :grin:
 
Okay,

Since we've solved all the problems of the world here today, I'd like to know exactly what Barry knows about HDRack.

Promise not to tell...

e
 
SJUSER said:
I did it because I thought that we are all in 1920x1200 HD but unfortunetaly we are not.

Until PC users finally SWITCH to Mac...
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Last time I checked, there's not a single mac laptop that sports a 1920x1200 screen, is there? That's one huge dissapointment I have switching to the Mac platform... I'm currently running an HP laptop of all things, but the screen is beautiful and I get my 1080 footage full-size and crystal-clear. Ironic that you're touting the Mac but then assuming everyone has a 1920 screen at the same time...
 
Barry_Green said:
If Marcus can deliver an equally-fast unwrap/rewrap and an equally fast codec, then... well, then the situation could be almost as workable as the Apple.
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I would settle for even for mediocre speed as long as I could get RT playback of a single stream in Vegas on 3.0 Ghz machine and support for the various frame rates. The Avid Codec/Quicktime mode in Vegas or Premiere (or the messy, buggy support in Avid Express) are just a pain.
 
Name of this thead brought me in... but where's the Panny reps? I can't imagine how busy they must be and how many fires they are putting out, but the thing that really impressed me about this forum is how the bigtime folks were posting and responding to the crazy acquistions. Now that so many people have such expectations would be cool to have them around.

Now, I personally am down for the ride. Today I got to do a side by side with the Canon, JVC and the Panny and was blown away by the Panasonic over all of the others... especially that Canon viewfinder which would give me a headache in like 10 seconds.


So back to the original intent, where's the reps and their calming and highly appreciated input? I know that I was told I could have the camera at the end of the month but then again... probably not. I'm happy to just be getting one and my projects will just have to wait. I don't want the same problems I had with my first run XL1.


J



J
 
overlandfilms said:
Since we've solved all the problems of the world here today, I'd like to know exactly what Barry knows about HDRack.
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I know the same things that you guys know. I've been badgering 'em about producing it, and I've been sending them stuff (like the Avid codec) to see if it could help things along. But as far as whether there will be such a product, and if so then when... that all remains an unconfirmed mystery.
 
can somebody briefly explain the blade saga? (not the wesley snipes movies...) i've used dv storm for a long time and the damn thing rocks, i also think edius is the fastest nle alive. the final cut system i used seemed dog slow comparatively, it has to render render render.
 
I have been reading this interesting interpretation of what corporation like apple, Panasonic and Avid should do in order for you to make money without expecting any money from you.
Here is what I think Panny made the P2 camera and all non linear like APPLE, AVID, Quantel, EDIUS Canopus, Dyang (Chinies) Grass Vally, Leitch everyone supported it. But on broadcast news level. why because they pay money. There are many P2 bases SD TV station which is using P2 with DVCPRO and DVCPRO50 with all of the above NLE. They were also told that when P2HD comes the NLE will support it. Now Panasonic made a leap in low budget market does that mean all of the other NLE supporter has to jump in with Panny where they know there is not much money in it but lot of support required and complaining going on. If I am non linear manufacturer I would not spare my already small amount of resources on low budget NLE.
In P2 MXF format there is a lot of work involve for the non linear manufacture. The biggest work is not working with DVCPRO HD or Unwrapping MXF but what you do with the metadata. The non linear see the money in Data base and Archive with the meta data. They have to deal with that first for the broadcaster and then if they have time and enough of you by the HVX200 then may be they will think about supporting and sparing resources in this market.
Now question is why Apple is ahead of it because they don't have extensive data base and archive network based system with NLE to deal with. They are in a market where you have one system and one customer.
What is the Panny solution. I think for now for playing back on PC use P2 viewer. For data base backup and archive use PC. For editing use Mac. There are other option such as Firestore DV which will provide the file converter software for people who does not have P2 MXF Support. They will convert the P2 MXF file in to AVI file. I dont know if they convert DVCPRO HD or not but they sure do the DV and DVCPRO files. DVCPRO HD is a professional format and because of that it is a bandwidth hog for PC. It will be easy to implement for NLE with 64bit OS in future but for now Apple is only game in town.
PC solution are available with EDIUS and AVID and EDIUS is giving AVID run for the money becuse there system is native MXF. Which means they are the only one who can write back to the P2 card after editing. Sad part is they don't have the marketing muscle for promoting it. May be Thomsan will throw in some money for there promotion. I know few station in US using EDIUS but for News.
For now I will use EDIUS for removing the DVCPRO HD file from P2 and then convert that in to the file you want and find a work around.

I know I covered lots of topics in one I hope I did not confuse any one.
 
edius is not blade...

the ONLY reason GV bought canopus was for its Japan market share and edius will be the flagship nle for GV...

Edius is not going anywhere...if anything it will get viper support and support for the infinity system...

GV also brings tons of cash to bring edius up to speed with more feature rich nles like vegas and fcp...

with that said TODAY fcp is best option for editing sessions that go beyond straight cuts, fcp brings complete keyframing and masking tools

are you editing a movie or a documentary i don't see the need for anything more then straight cuts...so in that case edius makes sense, edius has great cc tools...finish your audio in nuendo, do your special effects in ae...
 
Ya gotta admit that Panasonic screwed the pooch here.

It's their responsibility for the codec, and they should have done something to smooth out the integration issues while other vendors get up to speed.

Asking PC users to get a Mac is plain dumb. I stopped sipping from the Apple kool-aid a long time ago, and there's no way I'm returning to a locked-in dead-end machine which is half as fast as a PC which costs three times less. Sorry.

I think that everything will be resolved over the next few months. Panasonic must have figured out that given the choice between dumping their PC for a Mac for the DVX, most consumers would simply purchase an HDV camera that works out-of-the-box with their PC instead.
 
Ya gotta admit that Panasonic screwed the pooch here.
It's their responsibility for the codec, and they should have done something to smooth out the integration issues while other vendors get up to speed.
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yes they are responsible for the codec.. and they did well, i mean the codec is incredible, good job Panasonic. Its so good Canon uses it to show off H1 footage.

but damn you panasonic.. why didnt you goto sony, kidnap the engineers by gunpoint and hold them hostage till the execs agreed to use the codec. Bad panasonic.. bad. You make bad-ass mofia New Jersey companies look bad. What are you thinking?

Asking PC users to get a Mac is plain dumb. I stopped sipping from the Apple kool-aid a long time ago, and there's no way I'm returning to a locked-in dead-end machine which is half as fast as a PC which costs three times less. Sorry.
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who is telling people? panasonic? please. They arnt out there yelling apple. Its just the only thing that works. Oh, dont know what rock you been under.. but macs are now kicking PC's ass in the speed departments.. go google G5 quad.

I think that everything will be resolved over the next few months. Panasonic must have figured out that given the choice between dumping their PC for a Mac for the DVX, most consumers would simply purchase an HDV camera that works out-of-the-box with their PC instead.
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i think your wrong.. i mean i switched, a dozen other people here switched.. and Barry Green mr. PC himself is considering it... IF FCP was a crappy program i would agree with you.. fact is the HVX is arguably the best prosumer camera out there, and FCP alone is arguably the best editor.. so your not downgrading by going to mac.

Trust me.. its been a rocky road for me.. 6 months ago if you asked me to use a Mac i woulda slapped you silly.
 
Ill still slap you silly...
A Hardware only company that relies on software?
I will NEVER buy an outdated MAC paper weight.
 
Jarred Land said:
Trust me.. its been a rocky road for me.. 6 months ago if you asked me to use a Mac i woulda slapped you silly.
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frozenhell2uc.jpg


:evil:
 
The Mac bashing by the PC zombies is killing me. It's rather interesting how an "underpowered paper weight" with less than "2%" market share can play the files you PC users are so desperate to play.

Keep using your Windoze based machines and keep on pointing out how bad Mac's are and why they are terrible, and why Apple is the enemy, and why PC's still are the "platform of choice" for any "real professional". While you are doing that I will be editing in the format that it appears you are unable to.
 
Jarred Land said:
. Oh, dont know what rock you been under.. but macs are now kicking PC's ass in the speed departments.. go google G5 quad. .
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Quad G5 is fast machine but Quad Opteron is faster still.
 
HVXguy said:
I saw a demo of AXIO. It was nice but there is not an easy way to get P2 into an AXIO system. There are some renderering workarounds but for the same price you can easily go Mac FCP.
I have talked with several agencies in town regarding HD and FCP.
Most wanted more info as many of them are already doing off-lines with FCP in house. AXIO would not be compatible and MATROX seems to be dumb founded about the HVX in general.
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Hi,
Just hopped in from the razor_users@yahoogroups.com list. I have an Axio card in my office, just waiting for the HP XW9300 with (2) dual core AMD Opterons to arrive.
Local vender will then come assemble.

When I first saw the wooden HVX200 at NAB 2005, I was blown away by the workflow potential. Equally blown away by Axio at the same time.

I've written many emails to Matrox encouraging them to write MXF support into a future version of AxioTools, and have received confirmation (believeable? I hope so) from them that MXF support will exist soon. Their just-released 1.5 version of AxioTools has native DVCProHD support. The word I got was that Panny and Matrox DID talk to each other at IBC recently. I'm hoping that Panasonic's not listing them as partners (yet) simply means Matrox does not want to list them as a partner until they actually have a working solution.

The beauty of Axio is that it's scalable architecture. Without changing the hardware, there's much they can do by tweaking their drivers/tools.

Everyone seems to think Axio is a price hog. Break a modest $28k Axio turnkey system down into bite-sized pieces, and Axio REALLY only costs around $9K (cardset and BOB) everything else is killer fast computer, graphics card, $9k worth of 4TB fiber channel storage and HD monitor. How much is real-time worth to you? What is Axio's product life cycle expectancy? The math looks real good, for me at least.

Even if Axio lags on MXF support, by March, I've heard there will be MXF to avi decoding software. As things sit right now, it'll take something like an AJA HD10A converter to go from HVX200's analog component out into Axio's HD SDI in....an extra $1,500. You could work in SD on an Axio till a P2 solution comes together.

Axio HD, PPro...and moving ahead with HVX200.
John
 
Although I have not given it much time, I have not been having a problem editing the bar scene footage with Avid Xpress Pro HD

Go here: http://avid.com/products/datasheets/XpressPro_HD.pdf

On the third page, read under Streamlined interoperability and workflow
it's the 4th bullet down. "Native DVCPRO HD"

Does anyone else have Xpress pro HD for the PC that can confirm that the clips work?
 
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