T2i Panning: Is there a formula for good results?

J

jimbee

Member
I just got a T2i and was doing some testing at the 23.98 frame rate, with a 1/50th shutter. Every pan shot looked awful, and the slower I panned, the worse it looked. I don't think it was because of rolling shutter. Strangely, the whip pans looked the best, I thought, because I could not see this weird judder or strobe-y look as the frame changed.

This thread -- Anyone noticed a weird interframe flicker/strobe on 7D panning shots? -- raised some of the issues that I think I am seeing, but it did not include test footage.

I've posted my test here -- Canon T2i panning test -- do I just have some kind of "persistence of vision" problem with my eyes? Or does my camera have a problem? Or is there some kind of mathematical formula to get visually pleasing results?

Any advice much appreciated.


 
Though these pans would have been better at 60fps, the good news is there is probably nothing wrong with your T2i. The bad news is all your pans were too fast. And though you didn't mention your focal length, they may have been made worse by your focal lenth. The longer the focal length the slow the pan must be.

You may be able to find some charts for panning speed on the internet, but a good general rule is it should take approximately 7 seconds for an object to cross your screen.

Good panning..
 
make sure IS is off, thats a no no

and make sure you have a good fluid head

and finally make sure you know a thing or two about codecs

any of the above three can cause stutterring panning
 
"and finally make sure you know a thing or two about codecs"

Well that's exactly what Jimbee is asking here that no one is responding to. Is there something in the Canon codec that makes panning- and I would add horizontal movement in general difficult - tendancy to judder.

I think I've seen it and others have mentioned it . It might be something unique to Canon DSLR's.
 
You're panning too fast. 24fps will never look good if you pan that quickly. The reason you don't notice the strobing as much in the faster pans is because of the motion blur.
 
jimbee said:
Every pan shot looked awful,
Click to expand...

This is the one thing a DSLR doesn't do well. Keep testing different rates until you find something that looks good. Slower the better.
Look on the brighter side, you will learn how to make great films without depending on whip pans to get you there.
 
jimbee said:
I just got a T2i and was doing some testing at the 23.98 frame rate, with a 1/50th shutter. Every pan shot looked awful, and the slower I panned, the worse it looked. I don't think it was because of rolling shutter. Strangely, the whip pans looked the best, I thought, because I could not see this weird judder or strobe-y look as the frame changed.

This thread -- Anyone noticed a weird interframe flicker/strobe on 7D panning shots? -- raised some of the issues that I think I am seeing, but it did not include test footage.

I've posted my test here -- Canon T2i panning test -- do I just have some kind of "persistence of vision" problem with my eyes? Or does my camera have a problem? Or is there some kind of mathematical formula to get visually pleasing results?

Any advice much appreciated.
Click to expand...


Why in the world would you pan like that?

Slow down, slow down.
 
Even your slowest pan was about 2 or 3 times as fast as any normal pan you should film at 24p.

Even film will show that stutter effect if the camera is panned too quickly, because the movement is too quick for 24fps to accurately capture. You won't notice it when an object moves quickly across the screen, but when the whole frame is moving like with a pan, it is very noticeable.

Your best bet when filming a pan of a car or a person is to try to keep the subject in the same position in the frame throughout the pan. That way the subject will not be exhibiting the stutter effect, and hopefully the audience will be looking at the subject rather than the background.
 
you should see some movies in at least 720p you can see strobing on pans too,its not so noticeable with dvd low resolution.
Its there its in movies too but they know how to avoid this,in one of the first scenes in Ip Man theres so much strobing in background (its beginning of the take when ip man is walking from one part of the room to anoher to welcome his guest),it looks terrible ,but i still like the movie.
Its more visible when your frame has contrasty colours like black and then suddenly white ,like white windows on dark background.
Resize your footage to dvd resolution and see that strobing is less noticeable.
BEsides in movies when they do long pans like that then they have some person in the middle of the frame to look at,so youre not so distracted by stuttering background because your eyes are following person walking in the middle of the frame.
 
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Thanks to all for the advice. Slow down. Image stabilization off. 7-second rule. Keep a moving subject in the middle of the frame. When I tried some more tests, though, it was shocking how slow I had to go to keep it looking decent at 24 fps. 30 fps helped some, and 60 fps solved it, but those are not the "filmic approved" frame rate. A slower shutter speed seemed to help slightly, too, 1/30th at 24 fps rather than 1/50th, for a little more motion blur, although maybe that was my imagination. But that's violating the 180-degree shutter rule. I guess some backgrounds are worse than others, too.
 
jimbee said:
But that's violating the 180-degree shutter rule.
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Stick to the 180 shutter as you standard base and get used to the way it looks. This is what you would be doing if it were film.
The same pan speed applies to film. If you pan too fast it will cause vertical lines to strobe across the frame. If you really want faster pans designed to your shots you might try the same pan at different frame rates and shutter speeds to see what looks good and then later inner-cut those clips where you need them for effect.
Just try a lot of different settings like you've already started doing and keep a log. Later you will just know what works.
As far as jello there are some programs that can correct it. I've seen some impressive results on threads back a few months. Do a search or start a new thread.
 
jimbee said:
30 fps helped some, and 60 fps solved it, but those are not the "filmic approved" frame rate. A slower shutter speed seemed to help slightly, too, 1/30th at 24 fps rather than 1/50th, for a little more motion blur, although maybe that was my imagination. But that's violating the 180-degree shutter rule. I guess some backgrounds are worse than others, too.
Click to expand...


Fast pans are not "filmic approved" either.

A slower shutter speed will help to reduce the stuttering but once you put a subject in the frame they will also be less sharp due to the motion blur. However, do not be afraid to break the 180 degree rule if you feel it will better suit what you are doing. Lately I've been shooting surfing at 25p with a shutter speed of up to 1/150 and getting great, crisp images with barely any noticable strobing and no motion blur. It all depends on what suits your needs best.
 
Ive had no problems with the 7d with the kitlens 28-135mm on a manfrotto 516 head.
Fast or slow no jellow .
 
Also, if you're following a car or person with your pans, even if the background looks like crap, the main subject will distract you from it.

It's also vimeo, in my opinion. Even with my DVX, pans and movements look like crap on vimeo.

And I honestly don't see why you'd ever really need to pan without following a subject.
 
deltoidjohn said:
Fast pans are not "filmic approved" either.

A slower shutter speed will help to reduce the stuttering but once you put a subject in the frame they will also be less sharp due to the motion blur. However, do not be afraid to break the 180 degree rule if you feel it will better suit what you are doing. Lately I've been shooting surfing at 25p with a shutter speed of up to 1/150 and getting great, crisp images with barely any noticable strobing and no motion blur. It all depends on what suits your needs best.
Click to expand...

Yes it all depends on whats in the frame. It you are following a surfer across a body of water with no hard lines the extra sharpness of the fast shutter speed should look great.
The key is to shoot a lot of tests at the beginning and examine them side by side for yourself. A successful technique you read about in a post may not work the same in your universe. You have to find out first hand what works for you.
 
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