Panasonic's new version of HPX300

I agree with you wholeheartly, Panasonic should be able to offer an upgrade path for the 300 especially seeing that the 370's body looks identical to the 300, so then it should not be to great a problem to do as you suggested.
 
even the casual member on dvxuser had to stumble across the problems Barry and others pointed out on the 300 from the very beginning. It was your choice to buy the product knowing full well it has some limitations that you have to adjust for. It was the first generation of a new product. I hardly feel sorry for those who are complaining either because they jumped the gun on the purchase or somehow feel 'owed' an upgrade.

A company most of you love...Apple...does this "secret" stuff all the time. They pride themselves in their secrecy. Sure, stuff leaks on 3rd party sites but that's going to happen in the age we live in. They just silently upgraded their macbook pros and changed some prices on their imacs without even putting the info on their home page.

Sometimes timing just doesn't work out. A company can't make everyone happy.
 
jrmiller_entertainment said:
It was the first generation of a new product. I hardly feel sorry for those who are complaining either because they jumped the gun on the purchase or somehow feel 'owed' an upgrade.
Click to expand...

It was a camera. Just another camera.

Odd also that you think that buying a product 'fit to go to market' equates to 'jumping the gun'. Maybe I'm learning to be as cynical too!

BD
 
Odd also that you think that buying a product 'fit to go to market' equates to 'jumping the gun'. Maybe I'm learning to be as cynical too!

BD
Click to expand...

I meant jumping the gun as in buying before you do your research. For instance, on these boards I've seen many posts that start out "I just bought an hvx and I can't figure out how to record hd to tape. Please help!"
 
Videolord said:
I agree with you wholeheartly, Panasonic should be able to offer an upgrade path for the 300 especially seeing that the 370's body looks identical to the 300, so then it should not be to great a problem to do as you suggested.
Click to expand...

It may be presumptuous that identical external design means there are no
internal enclosure changes.

I mean let's think about this for a second ...

So assuming sensor and imaging electronics cost is roughly 1/3rd the cost
of the camera (we know it's a new sensor and new DSP).

The 370 costs ~10,000 (MSRP) . which is usually a 175->200% markup over
Panasonics cost which I'll guestimate at 4000.

Then you're going to have to send it to Panasonic in Kansas (or some similar
center) .. and it's going to take 2 to 3 hours of technician bench time (at $200
an hour at least).

So ..
upgrade cost of boards + sensor $1250
technician time $600
insured shipping and return $200

So, I'm gonna guess an upgrade couldn't be done for less than
$2000 or so and that assumes Panasonic basically makes no profit
doing it. So say it's between 2k and 3k for the upgrade...

Plus, I'm sure the yield / run-rate of the new sensors isn't all that great ..
so they'd have to wait until the run rate is enough over production rate
to dedicate enough of them for upgrades ('cause they're going to make
money on the 370/371 chips and break even on the upgrade ones and
it would be stupid to steal from the profit stock for no-profit upgrades).

Then, Panasonic has to ask themselves, "how many of the existing 300
owners would do the upgrade?" $2000->$2500 is a lot of change
for some people .. If 30% did the upgrade, I'd be surprised. Personally,
I wouldn't do the upgrade .. I'd put it towards another 5D MKII.

Then there's the administrative headaches of which cameras got upgraded
and the serial number / PASS administration to consider...

Another approach would be to offer upgrade rebates / coupons .. but that's
problematic too because it would increase the used market with lower
cost 300's .. and dry up the new purchase 300 market forcing discounting
or end-of-life for the 300.

One other approach is the trade-up .. where you surrender your existing
camera and get the new one. Most trade-ups I've ever seen are around
half the cost of the new gear (at best).

Admittedly, these are "seat of the pants" numbers .. but I would
venture (based on some info I have from dealer pals)
not too far off from reality..

If I were Panasonic ... I wouldn't do anything in this area .. let the 300
be the 300 and the 370 the follow-on product.

jeff
 
Last edited:
jmarkham said:
It may be presumptuous that identical external design means there are no
internal enclosure changes.

I mean let's think about this for a second ...

So assuming sensor and imaging electronics cost is roughly 1/3rd the cost
of the camera (we know it's a new sensor and new DSP).

The 370 costs ~10,000 (MSRP) . which is usually a 175->200% markup over
Panasonics cost which I'll guestimate at 4000.

Then you're going to have to send it to Panasonic in Kansas (or some similar
center) .. and it's going to take 2 to 3 hours of technician bench time (at $200
an hour at least).

So ..
upgrade cost of boards + sensor $1250
technician time $600
insured shipping and return $200

So, I'm gonna guess an upgrade couldn't be done for less than
$2000 or so and that assumes Panasonic basically makes no profit
doing it. So say it's between 2k and 3k for the upgrade...

Plus, I'm sure the yield / run-rate of the new sensors isn't all that great ..
so they'd have to wait until the run rate is enough over production rate
to dedicate enough of them for upgrades ('cause they're going to make
money on the 370/371 chips and break even on the upgrade ones and
it would be stupid to steal from the profit stock for no-profit upgrades).

Then, Panasonic has to ask themselves, "how many of the existing 300
owners would do the upgrade?" $2000->$2500 is a lot of change
for some people .. If 30% did the upgrade, I'd be surprised. Personally,
I wouldn't do the upgrade .. I'd put it towards another 5D MKII.

Then there's the administrative headaches of which cameras got upgraded
and the serial number / PASS administration to consider...

Another approach would be to offer upgrade rebates / coupons .. but that's
problematic too because it would increase the used market with lower
cost 300's .. and dry up the new purchase 300 market forcing discounting
or end-of-life for the 300.

One other approach is the trade-up .. where you surrender your existing
camera and get the new one. Most trade-ups I've ever seen are around
half the cost of the new gear (at best).

Admittedly, these are "seat of the pants" numbers .. but I would
venture (based on some info I have from dealer pals)
not too far off from reality..

If I were Panasonic ... I wouldn't do anything in this area .. let the 300
be the 300 and the 370 the follow-on product.

jeff
Click to expand...

I wouldn't bat an eyelid at $2k for an upgrade. I'd just do it. Now. I'd then have a very decent camera with all functions usable for the next 5 years and no one being sniffy about it. Job done.

Also any technician jobs going in Kansas? I have an electronics degree:laugh: Good living!

BD
 
I agree, that'd be a reasonable upgrade cost and I'm sure they'd have lots of takers.
Would it be financially sensible for them to do it? Unlikely in the first instance, but in terms of good will from customers and therefore future loyalty and therefore sale, maybe.
Steve
 
Anything below $3k would have our camera on the bench. Wouldn't expect the very good 5-year warranty to be extended either. Four years remaining!
 
below 3k and I would jump at it to, above that and I think I would look at a HDSLR. Still I think we are beating a dead horse here, not to mention helping promote the 370.
 
Erik Olson said:
Anything below $3k would have our camera on the bench. Wouldn't expect the very good 5-year warranty to be extended either. Four years remaining!
Click to expand...

I think this all proves we are lovely pleasant pragmatists here - not a bunch of internet based whingers, as some would like to have Panasonic believe!!!

D
 
I do think there is a lot to be said for loyalty though. As soon as someone like Panny does something like we are talking about then they've hooked hundreds of customers for life. I'm sure a lot of us here will find the same with dealers too - a dealer who does a good turn for you will continue to get your business, even if his prices were a tad higher than you could get them elsewhere. Loyalty is a MASSIVE thing and it's not that hard to get.
I'm talking as a neutral here as I don't have a 300 so have no axe to grind, in fact just the opposite as I've just ordered a 370 for some little personal projects I want to do. I really liked the idea of the 300 as a personal cameras as most of my work is on Varicams, so going from paid jobs back to perosnal ones would not be a big jump as the cameras are similar in so many ways (including the P2 workflow of course).
Steve
 
Count me as another 300 owner who would GLADLY do an upgrade if it cost less than $3K. And the whole customer loyalty argument if Panasonic does this is a very real factor. Just ask Toyota where they'd be without a loyal customer base.
 
Just thinking about it I was in the same boat a year or so back when I had a Sony PDW700. I'd had it about 4 months and they released the PDW800 which had overcranking (one of the main things I needed). With the 700 it was a real awkward workaround to get slomo. I was annoyed as the 800 just appeared, with no word that it was in development and that those looking at the 700 who needed overcranking might want to hang on a bit. There was talk of disquitet on some of the forums over that too with a few other 700 owners saying that there should be a trade-in programme but nothing happened. I know business is business but I went right off Sony there and then and haven't bought one of the cameras since. How much is my lack of business denting their global profit margins I wonder? Not much I'm sure!
Steve
 
Mikko,

There's a finders fee in it for you if you can get me more than $6200 cash for the HPX300, considering the HPX370 is streeting at about $9200.
 
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