GH4 Panasonic GH5 coming in 2017

psantia said:
well Panasonic should give some news regarding the GH5 , because Nikon, Sony and Canon already presented new 4 k models..they might loose clients...
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I just love these posts. You can almost visualize a bunch of Panasonic executives sitting nervously in a boardroom, sweating......(we have to do something. We will lose clients one of them whispers) :2vrolijk_08:

If you like Sony color science, go for it. As for Canon, their 4K offering is way beyond a future GH5's price point and a different class of camera. And I'm betting that Photokina will be the first mention of a GH4 successor.
 
DLD said:
There are a number of situation where external distracts and detracts from the workflow and, moreover, one would need to buy/rent an external recorder at retail prices while a manufacturer can offer the internal recording for de facto wholesale. Additionally, including an internal SSD can serve a variety of purposes over and beyond a purely recording alternative. Feature-wise, it gives a model - any model - an advantage over its competition on the value scale as well. Besides, unless the card is proprietary like p2, there's not much of a chance that a consumer will buy it from the same manufacturer. And, when it comes to the external recorders, buying from another manufacturer becomes - in John McLaughlin's words - a metaphysical certitude. And so, I say, a quality screen and internal recording save money for the consumer and make money for the OEM at the same time. In other words, it's a win-win proposition for everyone. (except, naturally,the Sound Devices, Atomos and Convergent Design)
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Yes but you still force a lot of people to pay for that feature that may not need it. The fact is not everybody needs 400mbps 4k video. Heck not that many may even need 200mbps video. Maybe bumping up the codec to handle 400mbps would be at a minimal cost but the increase in size to the camera to support a SSD and the internal components needed to handle that non typical form of in camera recording could in fact greatly increase the cost. The other cost increase is storage and editing requirements for footage of that magnitude. A lot of GH5 users wouldn't use that level of quality for this reason along so why force all of them to pay for it. For years we have asked for a modular camera so we don't always waste money having to buy every component again. Now our lenses and audio recording is modular and we can even choose to make the video recording device modular. A recording device that is future proof for many other cameras a user may decide to upgrade to.

The other factor to think about is in fact the size increase to the camera. We cannot forget that this is a hybrid camera and not a cinema camera. Despite what many here think the GH4 is likely used by more hobbyists, wedding videographers and photographers than it is film makers. Especially considering many film makers are so obsessed with larger sensor cameras and RAW. Photographers do not want a massive DSLR that takes a SSD drive and the extra weight involved with that. Hobbyists are not going to deal with that either.

So what if they have to buy an external recorder at retail prices? Is it really that expensive of an investment? five years ago if somebody told me I could have a full HD monitor that also records ProRes422HQ to a SDHC card for $495 I would have told them they were nuts. People always talk about the value of higher quality recording and yet the options are right there practically for peanuts. Thats honestly almost throw away money. I get that some people are on a budget but quality does come at a price and its exactly these budget focused people that should be worried about keeping that kind of cost an an optional upgrade. I'm not really sure how people just assume they should get internal 10bit 4:2:2 for nothing. These cameras are already insanely under priced for what they are. You can buy a GH4 right now for $1,300.00 and a BMD VA for $500. For $1,800 you have one heck of an amazing 1080p production tool. Even if you add a Ninja Assassin you are only looking at $2,300.00 for a stunning 4k 4:2:2 10bit camera. Nothing else out there even comes close to that price point so yeah who cares if somebody has to pay retail price for an external recorder. you are still getting quality vastly superior to what we had in $12,000.00 SONY DVCAM cameras ten years ago. Heck only even a few years ago a SONY consumer HDV camera was $1,800.00. I don't think people appreciate just how much they get for the money with the GH4 and how many doors it actually opens up for quality. To this day the GH4 is one of the only DSLRs I know of with 10bit HDMI or HD-SDI output. Not just a crude output either but a proper 100% accurate output.
 
I don't disagree much. I feel we're simply taking the opposite sides of the same coin ... except ...

Thomas Smet said:
So what if they have to buy an external recorder at retail prices? Is it really that expensive of an investment?.
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A 240 GB SSD may add $80-$100 to the cost of the camera and a high quality screen another $50 (if you assume a reasonable quality screen will be included anyway). The lowest priced 4K monitor/recorder is $1,000 + BYO media or $1,100+. This is a pretty big difference, compared to recording in camera and then just offloading the files. Plus, with the internal SSD, one could then just get an external monitor without a recorder if s/he so chooses.

PS. A foldable/pullout/dual-screen OLED would also be nice.
 
Would you buy this camera?

  • Panasonic GH5 for $1799, November 2016
  • 6K video and 24MP stills
  • Super 35mm mode for 6K video without pixel binning
  • 2x crop Micro Four Thirds mode for DCI 4K and Ultra HD
  • Compatible with all Micro Four Thirds lenses
  • 200Mbit/s H.264 codec and V-LOG 2.0
  • Forthcoming Micro Four Thirds Premium / Plus lenses for the oversized sensor
  • Full frame look with Metabones Speed Booster
  • 4K RAW to Odyssey 7Q+ (please!!)
What’s not to love about that?
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http://www.eoshd.com/2016/02/time-to-step-up-panasonic-gh5-must-go-super-35mm-to-compete-in-2016/

I think there is a better chance of 4K @60fps than 6K if it comes out this year.
 
DLD said:
I don't disagree much. I feel we're simply taking the opposite sides of the same coin ... except ...

A 240 GB SSD may add $80-$100 to the cost of the camera and a high quality screen another $50 (if you assume a reasonable quality screen will be included anyway). The lowest priced 4K monitor/recorder is $1,000 + BYO media or $1,100+. This is a pretty big difference, compared to recording in camera and then just offloading the files. Plus, with the internal SSD, one could then just get an external monitor without a recorder if s/he so chooses.

PS. A foldable/pullout/dual-screen OLED would also be nice.
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Of course its an extra cost and yes a bummer to those that want it but my point again is that because it is now modular you can move that recorder to other cameras and no longer have to worry about the internal recording format or any future cameras.

Lets say the GH5 is $2,200 because of the increased cost to the size and media handling capabilities. Plus companies put a premium on that level of recording quality even it does only cost them a few bucks to add it to the camera. Is it fair that every hobbyist and videographer who are perfectly happy with 100mbps or even a theoretical 200mbps have to pay that extra premium to have 400mbps internal? Adding 400mbps encoding in camera only serves a small niche of users and to me isn't practical enough to vastly increase the cost of the camera itself.

This is even more true when you look at a form like the 200mbps intra-frame format in the GH4 for HD recording. Sure its intra-frame but its still 4:2:0 and 8bit. Many users who require that level of format will typically use an external recorder instead because they will want many of the other benefits of the ProRes such as 4:2:2 and 10bit color. The 200mbps HD mode on the GH4 is kind of a niche feature that has limited usefulness. In this case it may or may not have increased the cost of the GH4 since the cards can already handle 200mbps but going any higher and moving to another form of media would dramatically increase the cost. Even if Panasonic did magically add 400mbps in camera with an increase in size to handle SSD there is no guarantee it would be 4:2:2 or 10bit. H264 can already support 4:4:4 and 10bit encoding and yet Panasonic never chooses to use this even with the 200mbps format on the GH4 for HD. These cameras are still consumer cameras and even if they do bump up the datarate there will still be something lacking from the 4k internal encoding. Thats why I think its best to not hope and wish for Panasonic to make a 180 degree turn on codecs and just invest in an external recorder for those that need that level of quality. Honestly if getting rid of artifacts is the main concern then 200mbps is more than enough which current cards are more than capable of doing. That puts the quality at roughly the same as HD at 50mbps which is extremely clean and artifact free. Going higher than that has extremely small diminishing returns and not worth the extra cost and weight added to the camera.

Personally I say forget all of this crap anyway and just develop a form of RAW in camera. Photographers have had RAW for photos for years. Personally I would be ok with some sort of compressed version of RAW. That would have a heck of a lot more value for internal recording with the intention of working with the material in post than 400mbps 4:2:0 8bit would ever have. Even if Panasonic said oh well and gave us 400mbps 4:4:4 10bit encoding in camera the RAW would still be better. RAW would be the only situation where I personally think it would be ok to bump up the cost, size and weight of the camera in the quest to try to get higher quality. If RAW is not needed I still think the external recorder is better for cost reasons and for quality reasons. Why pay for that level of recording in camera every time you buy a new camera? Pay for the recording capability once and use it for years.
 
joe1946 said:
http://www.eoshd.com/2016/02/time-to-step-up-panasonic-gh5-must-go-super-35mm-to-compete-in-2016/

I think there is a better chance of 4K @60fps than 6K if it comes out this year.
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Whats the point of EOSHD doing an article like that now when Panasonic will have already locked in the features and roadmap for the GH5. Its likely already in development and has been for a long time. I also disagree that the GH5 needs to do all of that to stay relevant. In the eyes of who, the fringe niche of film makers constantly chasing pixels? The GH4 even being as old as it is still has a lot of relevance today in the market. Its still the only DSLR with 10bit output and the only one with the option to add HD-SDI. Still captures an insanely detailed beautiful 4k image compared to many other 4k attempts and is still one of the few 4k cameras to give true DCI 4k resolution. I don't usually mind some of the articles on EOSHD but this one is a pure measurbating article with little to no value or substance.
 
Thomas Smet said:
Whats the point of EOSHD doing an article like that now when Panasonic will have already locked in the features and roadmap for the GH5. Its likely already in development and has been for a long time. I also disagree that the GH5 needs to do all of that to stay relevant. In the eyes of who, the fringe niche of film makers constantly chasing pixels? The GH4 even being as old as it is still has a lot of relevance today in the market. Its still the only DSLR with 10bit output and the only one with the option to add HD-SDI. Still captures an insanely detailed beautiful 4k image compared to many other 4k attempts and is still one of the few 4k cameras to give true DCI 4k resolution. I don't usually mind some of the articles on EOSHD but this one is a pure measurbating article with little to no value or substance.
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Thank you.
 
The GH4 was announced over two years ago.
Why are there no leaks about the GH5?
I am getting tired of waiting for this and the D500.
I like the new VariCam LT, but it is still too high priced for me.
At $1,000 rebate, I may order a JVC LS300 soon
because I need a new camera for doing a Video of my Son's Wedding April 2nd.
 
Thomas Smet said:
Whats the point of EOSHD doing an article like that now when Panasonic will have already locked in the features and roadmap for the GH5. Its likely already in development and has been for a long time. I also disagree that the GH5 needs to do all of that to stay relevant. In the eyes of who, the fringe niche of film makers constantly chasing pixels?
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Andrew Reid suggests 6K only so that when cropped to 4/3 it is still 4K. He's advocating the combination of a Super 35 sensor and a Micro Four Thirds lens mount, like on the JVC GY-LS300. I think that combination is a great idea, and I would love to see more cameras with it. Whether the GH5 must have it to be relevant is another matter.
 
Thomas Smet said:
.... Personally I say forget all of this crap anyway and just develop a form of RAW in camera. Photographers have had RAW for photos for years. Personally I would be ok with some sort of compressed version of RAW...
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Now, that would indeed bring GH5 into a much higher realm or cameras. Especially with an internal SSD that allows for a 400'ish Mbps/150 GB/hr in-camera recording (or they can go CFast too ... or both).

As to EOSHD, I am okay with an article. It's basically a fan's post. There's nothing new in it but may serve as a decent marketing survey for the manufacturer itself. We've done those on this site too. Personally, I think an MFT BSI sensor would accomplish as much as a standard s35, sans for a slight DOF difference. Having the variable aspect options is fine for the top-down approach but Panasonic is firmly locked into MFT at this level.

A compressed Raw would indeed make a difference. As would a high bit rate HEVC. It's up to them to see whether to include one or the other. Or both.
 
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combatentropy said:
Andrew Reid suggests 6K only so that when cropped to 4/3 it is still 4K. He's advocating the combination of a Super 35 sensor and a Micro Four Thirds lens mount, like on the JVC GY-LS300. I think that combination is a great idea, and I would love to see more cameras with it. Whether the GH5 must have it to be relevant is another matter.
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I'm not disputing that at all. I'm disputing the timing of the article which will have zero impact on the GH5 at this stage. Maybe it will help the GH6 in 2020.

I'm also not disputing the benefit of using a larger sensor area for FF lenses. Again not a bad thing to have. What I will dispute however is if there is a realistic market for m43 premium lenses that can use the super35mm sensor area. People already seem to have issue investing in m43 glass. m43 premium glass will be even more of a niche product and likely not going to sell as well. It will make little sense to have standard m43 lenses and premium m43 lenses when one could just adapt many other types on lenses to the camera. So while yeah they could do the sensor like that and why not JVD did but I am not sure sure about how valid the market will be for premium lenses. Seems like a neat idea but its asking people to invest in Panasonic FF glass vs all the other forms of FF glass out there. People use m43 glass right now because its insanely sharp, small and light weight. I'm just not sure people would be all that interested in FF Panasonic glass unless they really needed autofocus that badly.
 
DLD said:
Personally, I think an MFT BSI sensor would accomplish as much as a standard s35, sans for a slight DOF difference. Having the variable aspect options is fine for the top-down approach but Panasonic is firmly locked into MFT at this level.
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How soon will we see a MFT BSI Sensor that can do clean ISO 6400-8000?
If Panasonic announces a GH5 with one, I will try to be first in line.
 
joe1946 said:
http://www.eoshd.com/2016/02/time-to-step-up-panasonic-gh5-must-go-super-35mm-to-compete-in-2016/

I think there is a better chance of 4K @60fps than 6K if it comes out this year.
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This was my response on EOSHD:
No, no, no. I don't want a Super 35 sensor in a GH5. I REALY LIKE the Micro 4/3 size sensor. It makes focusing easier than S35, yet still has enough shallow depth of field to look cinematic. I don't care for Speedboosters. I love using my Voigtlander and Lumix lenses on my GH4, and would want the GH5 to shoot on a 5K or 6K m4/3 sensor downsampled to 4K in camera. 10-bit 4:2:2 internal 4K would be an incredible way for the GH5 to separate itself from everything else in the market.

I don't want to use S35 or FF lenses. I WANT my lenses to remain small. I want my whole kit to remain small. There are tons of other cameras out there right now that use S35 or FF sensors. I don't want to pay for a large sensor if I'm just going to use a 4K crop from it because of all my m4/3 lenses. If you want S35 or FF, buy a different camera. Get the Sony A6300 or something else. Leave the GH series Micro 4/3 sensor, because there are a lot of us that find it the perfect size sensor.

What I want in a GH5 (in order of importance to me):
  • Micro 4/3 sensor
  • Internal 10-bit 4:2:2 4K
  • ISO 3200 as good as the current ISO 800 of the GH4
  • IBIS
  • 4K 60p
  • No lag on the HDMI output
  • V-Log included
  • Keep the same style body & battery so all GH4 accessories work


Thomas Smet said:
Whats the point of EOSHD doing an article like that now when Panasonic will have already locked in the features and roadmap for the GH5. Its likely already in development and has been for a long time. I also disagree that the GH5 needs to do all of that to stay relevant. In the eyes of who, the fringe niche of film makers constantly chasing pixels? The GH4 even being as old as it is still has a lot of relevance today in the market. Its still the only DSLR with 10bit output and the only one with the option to add HD-SDI. Still captures an insanely detailed beautiful 4k image compared to many other 4k attempts and is still one of the few 4k cameras to give true DCI 4k resolution. I don't usually mind some of the articles on EOSHD but this one is a pure measurbating article with little to no value or substance.
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Indeed. The GH4 is still relevant, and still produces better footage than most people need in reality.

DLD said:
A compressed Raw would indeed make a difference. As would a high bit rate HEVC. It's up to them to see whether to include one or the other. Or both.
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I would love either or both of those options in a GH5, way more so than a S35 sensor!

RRRoger said:
How soon will we see a MFT BSI Sensor that can do clean ISO 6400-8000?
If Panasonic announces a GH5 with one, I will try to be first in line.
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Same here!
 
Frankly if they just figured a way to get clean ISO 6400 + usable 8000 and did nothing else to improve the GH5, I would buy one.
That is the only reason my GH4 sits on the shelf most of the time.
 
RRRoger said:
How soon will we see a MFT BSI Sensor that can do clean ISO 6400-8000? ...
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If one goes by the Sony RX cameras - and this can be a Sony sensor since they usually hold onto their latest tech for a year to eighteen months and then sell it to others - then they get roughly two extra stops from the BSI tech.
 
Jaime Valles said:
What I want in a GH5 (in order of importance to me):
  • Micro 4/3 sensor
  • Internal 10-bit 4:2:2 4K
  • ISO 3200 as good as the current ISO 800 of the GH4
  • IBIS
  • 4K 60p
  • No lag on the HDMI output
  • V-Log included
  • Keep the same style body & battery so all GH4 accessories work
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Yes, this is pretty much what I want in a GH5. I would pass on IBIS if it meant not being able to have unlimited shooting time because of over-heating issues. And I wouldn't care if the battery size had to change to supply more power to bigger image processors, but Internal 10-bit 4:2:2 is really the only feature that would convince me to upgrade to the GH5. Combined with V-log it would be a significant boost in image quality.
 
I agree with almost everyone. The GH5 definitely needs to have 4K 10 Bit 4:2:2 recording with an internal V-Log/ log that is less noisy. Better color science and higher dynamic range would be nice but I don't know if that is going to happen. The codec should be H.265 at the very least if they want to stay competitive. I also would like to see some type of YAGH audio recording interface that could be attached. Something with preamps and timecode would be great but hopefully they are able to keep the cost down.
 
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