combatentropy
Veteran
free hamster
GH4 Panasonic GH5 coming in 2017
- Thread starter Dan Keeble
- Start date
free hamster
One of the reasons for YAGH at the time of the conception - of the GH4 conception, obviously - was a fairly limited availability of the HDMI connected recorders. In fact, when the early teasers for GH4 came out, the YAGH was connected via SDI to AJA Ki Pro Quad, then retailing for $4,000 and making the entire combo run over $7,500. Nowadays, HDMI 4K recorder/monitors run as little as $1,000, largely making YAGH superfluous.
Kind of a side note but ... as we were talking the codec and the bitrate a while ago, I brought up a possibility of including an internal SSD, whose speed and size might make the removable media far less important. Well, scanning some computer related news, Micron just announced that they had developed an SSD with 2.77 TB in memory per square inch. The current leaders do about 1.75 TB/inch2 and that has been in production for about a year already (Samsung). So, presuming that a consumer/prosumer model like GH5 won't use the latest and the greatest, an SSD the size of 1 cm2 should be able to hold about 350 GB. Currently, at the retail level, an entry level 240 GB SanDisk goes for ~ $65 (NewEgg) or ~ $.27/GB.
combatentropy
Veteran
Speaking of connectors, I hope cameras start using Thunderbolt 3 soon.
- it can carry up to 40 gigabits per second, so it can replace all video cables, like HDMI
- it can carry up to 100 watts of power, so it also can replace the myriad power jacks on different cameras.
- it uses the new USB Type 3 jack, which is small like the micro USB on your phone, but it's symetrical, so it can be put in either way.
- it's a computer cable, so it can connect to your laptop or a little external hard drive
- hopefully someone will make an XLR adapter with it, so it can be used on all cameras with USB Type C jacks and the camera can power the adapter too
- hopefully someone also will make external monitor with it, so likewise it can easily be plugged into any such camera and be powered by it too. The camera could power all accessories. If it's a small camera like a DSLR, I guess you would have to hook an external battery first into the camera (also hopefully by Thunderbolt 3 some day) but still that's just one battery powering the camera and all accessories. A camera would hopefully have 3 or 4 of these little jacks.
(* If not Thunderbolt 3, USB 3.1 would be fine for some or all of the jacks. It's the exact same jack but supports just 10 Gbps instead of 40.)
- it can carry up to 40 gigabits per second, so it can replace all video cables, like HDMI
- it can carry up to 100 watts of power, so it also can replace the myriad power jacks on different cameras.
- it uses the new USB Type 3 jack, which is small like the micro USB on your phone, but it's symetrical, so it can be put in either way.
- it's a computer cable, so it can connect to your laptop or a little external hard drive
- hopefully someone will make an XLR adapter with it, so it can be used on all cameras with USB Type C jacks and the camera can power the adapter too
- hopefully someone also will make external monitor with it, so likewise it can easily be plugged into any such camera and be powered by it too. The camera could power all accessories. If it's a small camera like a DSLR, I guess you would have to hook an external battery first into the camera (also hopefully by Thunderbolt 3 some day) but still that's just one battery powering the camera and all accessories. A camera would hopefully have 3 or 4 of these little jacks.
(* If not Thunderbolt 3, USB 3.1 would be fine for some or all of the jacks. It's the exact same jack but supports just 10 Gbps instead of 40.)
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For ~ 200 Mbps, SATA is good enough and I doubt any sub-$2,000 camera will go with a higher bit rate in 4K.
That's a huge amount of power for a battery powered device, so I can't see any amateur cameras adopting this platform.
Bern Caughey
Veteran
I'm no fan of the YAGH, but in fairness it does facilitate Balanced Audio, XLR input, Phantom Power, Timecode input, SDI output, HDMI output, & more, all while recording internally. If a YAGH mkII could be powered internally, & was priced rationally, it likely sell well.
combatentropy
Veteran
100 watts is just the standard's maximum, up from USB 2's maximum of just a few watts. Each device draws only the watts it needs. It's catching on with phones, like the Nexus 5X and 6P, and laptops, like the Chromebook Pixel and Apple Macbook.
RRRoger
Well-known member
SamSung 850 EVO 500GB mSATA $160 has 540 read & 520 write speed
Should easy record 4kP60 at 400Mbps internal codec
There are aprox. 8Mega bits per MegaByte
Panasonic just announced the VeriCam LT.
The have the technology to put that or equal Sensor in the GH5
I need ISO 8000 to shoot in my low light environment where no extra lighting is allowed.
Should easy record 4kP60 at 400Mbps internal codec
There are aprox. 8Mega bits per MegaByte
Panasonic just announced the VeriCam LT.
The have the technology to put that or equal Sensor in the GH5
I need ISO 8000 to shoot in my low light environment where no extra lighting is allowed.
Matt Gottshalk
Resident Preditor
You aren't going to see a Varicam LT sensor in a GH5.
ya, well, you know ... BMW can put an M4 technology into X1 ... but they won't.
As to high ISO performance, GH5 really needs a BSI sensor and, if Panasonic can't get it from Sony, they should buy it from Samsung.
ReelWorksMedia
Well-known member
Varicam in a GH4...anything is possible...right?!
Matt Gottshalk
Resident Preditor
LOL
Thomas Smet
Veteran
We can already do 200mbps via SDHC cards. The GH4 just can't do it with 4k likely do to heat or lack of processing power or the encoder was too slow at the time. Without a doubt with the card speeds we already have a GH5 could bump up 4k to 200mbps if Panasonic so wishes and the GH5 gets a faster processor. The move to 4k 60p may need this anyway and the card capability is already there.
Going higher than 200mbps really starts to have diminishing returns and each level above that starts to only gain a sliver of artifact removal in insanely complex scenes with random motion. In fact I would say the only reason to go above 200mbps for 4k is to use intra-frame encoding but for that you would really need 400mbps. Honestly by that point just use an Atomos Ninja Assassin or similar external recorder which will give you arguably better quality than some odd form of internal intra-frame encoding. If you want the camera to get large enough to hold the larger media to handle that datarate then you might as well just use a darn external 4k recorder.
Don't force everybody to pay for features only a handful of people actually want or will realistically use. Thats the beauty of external recording, the ability to get that level of recording quality becomes an add-on and not a forced purchase which would jack up the cost of the GH5 by a huge amount. The GH4 is one of the only DSLRs out there that actually gives us the ability to get perfect 4k at true 10bits out of the HDMI port. If one wants 400mbps video you can already do it and it is about as good of 4k 4:2:2 10bit compression you could ever ask for.
Going higher than 200mbps really starts to have diminishing returns and each level above that starts to only gain a sliver of artifact removal in insanely complex scenes with random motion. In fact I would say the only reason to go above 200mbps for 4k is to use intra-frame encoding but for that you would really need 400mbps. Honestly by that point just use an Atomos Ninja Assassin or similar external recorder which will give you arguably better quality than some odd form of internal intra-frame encoding. If you want the camera to get large enough to hold the larger media to handle that datarate then you might as well just use a darn external 4k recorder.
Don't force everybody to pay for features only a handful of people actually want or will realistically use. Thats the beauty of external recording, the ability to get that level of recording quality becomes an add-on and not a forced purchase which would jack up the cost of the GH5 by a huge amount. The GH4 is one of the only DSLRs out there that actually gives us the ability to get perfect 4k at true 10bits out of the HDMI port. If one wants 400mbps video you can already do it and it is about as good of 4k 4:2:2 10bit compression you could ever ask for.
combatentropy
Veteran
Indeed, the SDXC bus handles 2,496 megabits per second. It's the flash inside that makes it slower, but flash is always getting faster.
There are a number of situation where external distracts and detracts from the workflow and, moreover, one would need to buy/rent an external recorder at retail prices while a manufacturer can offer the internal recording for de facto wholesale. Additionally, including an internal SSD can serve a variety of purposes over and beyond a purely recording alternative. Feature-wise, it gives a model - any model - an advantage over its competition on the value scale as well. Besides, unless the card is proprietary like p2, there's not much of a chance that a consumer will buy it from the same manufacturer. And, when it comes to the external recorders, buying from another manufacturer becomes - in John McLaughlin's words - a metaphysical certitude. And so, I say, a quality screen and internal recording save money for the consumer and make money for the OEM at the same time. In other words, it's a win-win proposition for everyone. (except, naturally,the Sound Devices, Atomos and Convergent Design)