GH4 Panasonic GH5 coming in 2017

I just got back from NAB had a chance to talk to Matt Frazer with Panasonic. Super nice. He told me it would more than likely be next year for the next GH camera. He told me that if they were able to add internal 10-bit 4:2:2, they would. It's more of an engineering thing. Other things like 4K 60 would be a safe bet. Maybe even dual sd card slots.

Two things that he personally would like to see is:

1. Full size HDMI port (he said he even broke his micro hdmi port) with locking screws in
2. An XLR attachment that doesn't take additional power.

Other notes:
- He would say that he believes it will be a big upgrade like from GH2 to GH4
- YAGH failed once every knew you can hook it into a shogun and get 10-bit 4:2:2 and SDI
-He showed me a diagram he drew out, that showed why they can't necessarily put a global shutter in that body style. It has to do with the CMOS sensor, the diode, and how the image hits the sensor, there's a balance between having low light and rolling shutter. That's something Panasonic is working on.
-Panasonic is listening to us and pretty much puts a wish list together then send it over to Japan where they can come back say what's possible and what's not possible.
-No larger sensor. Panasonic want to keep the lenses it has and has more in the works at the moment. Parfocal lenses are not in the works just because they would cost way over $2,000-$4,000. Not that he doesn't want to see them, it's just the cost more than the camera line.
- The real reason they charge for v-log is really for the people who don't know how to use it. You have to think, Panasonic does have a call center and employees it pays and it that it does take up their time dealing with troubleshooting issues. If they charge, then someone like my mom gets this completely gray image with v-log, doesn't call them up and ask "why is my image gray aat my son's soccer game". People have asked to speak with him directly sometimes about V-Log.
 
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Thank you for the info.

He showed me a diagram he drew out, that showed why they can't necessarily put a global shutter in that body style. It has to do with the CMOS sensor, the diode, and how the image hits the sensor, there's a balance between having low light and rolling shutter. That's something Panasonic is working on.

This is what Blackmagic struggled with for 10 months after the announcement of the 4.6K and BMMCC, and eventually decided to just go with rolling shutter for the two new camera additions.
 
He told me that if they were able to add internal 10-bit 4:2:2, they would. It's more of an engineering thing.

This makes no sense. The Blackmagic Pocket can do it. It's less work, not more. The raw image from the sensor is 12- or 14-bit RAW. It takes more processing power to squeeze that into a 100:1 interframe codec than a 7:1 intraframe codec.

Also, could someone please explain to me why S35 is such a big deal? If it's about using certain lenses, you can use them on 4/3. On the other hand, if Panasonic moved to S35, then suddenly many lenses that you used to be able to use would vignette. If you're wanting it for the shallow focus, 4/3 is just one f-stop away.
 
PS. If they don't do high speed internal 10-bit, there'll be little reason for consumers to replace their GH4's with GH5, especially considering a potential Sony roster of products.

Yes! ...This is the ONLY feature that will get me to upgrade, otherwise I will stick with the GH4 and an external recorder.
 
I like that they understand they have to offer a bit more to keep people intrigued.

Definitely should be a higher resolution camera...5K, maybe 6K. At least 5K...GH5 = 5K...like GH4 = 4K.

5K/24p - 4K/60p - 1080/240p - touchscreen - excellent image stabilization (in camera) - amazing auto-focus (maybe touchscreen AF like Canon and Nikon are now doing)...the bits, great colors, fantastic dynamic range, built-in LUT support, RAW output, and more!

Too much?
 
It has been said so much that I hesitate to say it again, but 2K is enough for me. I would rather have any of the other things: greater bit depth, faster frame rates, global shutter, better ISO, more minute per card, than 4K and certainly 5K. More K works against all of those things. I'm looking at footage of the Pocket on Vimeo, and it looks fine, even with my 1920x1080 laptop two feet away (nearly the same angle of view as a movie screen).
 
I like that they understand they have to offer a bit more to keep people intrigued.

Definitely should be a higher resolution camera...5K, maybe 6K. At least 5K...GH5 = 5K...like GH4 = 4K.

5K/24p - 4K/60p - 1080/240p - touchscreen - excellent image stabilization (in camera) - amazing auto-focus (maybe touchscreen AF like Canon and Nikon are now doing)...the bits, great colors, fantastic dynamic range, built-in LUT support, RAW output, and more!

Too much?

I like a lot of this list. I do agree with Combat about resolution but it is not going away. For me 10bit and XLR audio options are right at the top of the list. Clean ISO noise performance in the 1600-2500 range, IS, auto focus and tilt LCD are up there as well.

I would like to see a more expensive GH5-V version which would be catered to video folks. At this stage in the game I can't stand hearing that "its only a stills camera...". Well, make it more of a proper video camera and I will be happy to pay more for the features rather than waiting for the GH6. I have Canon still cameras for pro still work. Panasonic, your are not going to play that role...ever. So realize where your value is and get me to buy your product because Canon leaves the door open for you.

But, hearing the next year thing is tough. I think a lot are expecting a fall 2016 release. 2017 is pretty long to hang around for. They had better hope not much comes out in between. If Samsung had stayed in the game and made an NX-2 the game would be over.
 
The resolution race is definitely not stopping. For me, 4K is enough, but if big companies are all about more, then why not. Sony said 8K is the future. What's after that?

Personally, I can't imagine anyone shooting HD in 2-3 years, but maybe it's a different transition than the one from SD to HD. (As I just wrote that, I thought...maybe some people still shoot SD?)

Regarding IBIS, it would be nice to have a compromise like maybe having it off would allow unlimited recording time while having it on would have a limit. I almost never record more than a few minutes in one shot, so I would definitely take the IBIS over any recording limit, but totally understand the important need for unlimited recording as well.
 
IBIS makes heat management much harder.

Less compression moves processing power from the compression engine to the data transfer/storage engine. Shouldn't be a big deal, but most of the manufacturers say it îs. Mostly just requires really good cards.
 
The resolution race is definitely not stopping. For me, 4K is enough, but if big companies are all about more, then why not. Sony said 8K is the future. What's after that? ...
I read somewhere - had to have been one of those "rumors" sites - that Panasonic won't go above 24 MPX on their MFT cameras and, assuming it's a photo 3:2 ratio, it'll be 6,000 x 4,000. In which case, it'd be pretty much like A6300, except in MFT and not APS-C.

(BTW, Sony made a 23 MPX 2/3" sensor for a smartphone)

As to 8K, NHK will be running "live" tests from this summer's upcoming Olympics with an s35 "native 8K" model.
 
As the IBIS working (unlimited) in the smaller GX85 - I can't see why they would cripple it in the next GH.

As to internal 10bit 4:2:2 - is it really worth it? there is a market for external recorders? Most people are using external recorders, as long as the HDMI feed is clean, 10bit 4:2:2. They don't need to add any additional cost to the body (No need for P2 or dual slots etc). I wouldn't say no of course! :)

Need to get rid of the crop in 4k mode, and enhance the usability of the camera (more Fn custom commands, more logical use of on screen data etc)
 
Well given the rolling shutter in the a6300, the camera world is up against the wall when it comes to processing speed in these smaller sized bodies. There is a limit. As far as IBIS and unlimited recording, I can't imagine too many times when one needs to handhold for a 1 hour take or shot. If this occurs it is probably more because a tripod was left at home!

10bit 4:2:2 - as I thought with the DVX200, 10bit 4:2:2 is more on my mind with 1080p. Lets face it, 4k is not a main delivery vehicle yet and why not ask for what is reasonable in a small camera? If you really NEED proper 4k then you need to spend more and charge more!

I am not that familiar with the GH4, so I do not know about a 4k crop. Eliminating this (if it is there) is more important than a lot of other things imho.
 
As to internal 10bit 4:2:2 - is it really worth it? there is a market for external recorders?

Having to buy an external recorder to get the best performance with GH4 V-Log format, is why I would want internal 10-bit 4:2:2 recording with the GH5.

I am pretty happy with my GH4 cameras, so moving to the GH5 would require something worthwhile that I can't already do with the GH4. I'm not big on low-light ( I always light my shots and I don't expect a M4/3 sensor to compete with a FF ), I doubt I would ever use 4K 60p, and better dynamic range would require V-log recording. ( which pretty much requires an external recorder right now )

So if I can get most of the new GH5 features in a Sony camera ( Sony will never do 10-bit 4:2:2 in a mirror-less camera ), then I would be mighty tempted to go Sony with the next upgrade.
 
Disappointing that they didn't include a S35 sensor with an M43 mount + M43 crop mode, it really would have been a fantastic product thanks to the speedboosters (just leave it on M43 crop mode, but attach a speedbooster and then use the sensor @ full S35).

Hard to see how they will compete with the likes of the A7S, etc. keeping the M43 sensor. Unless they can crank the DR up to 14 stops and get some much higher ISOs looking very clean (and of course the aforementioned higher bitrates + 4K slow motion) I can't think of a reason to stick around with M4/3. It's hardly more portable these days than an A7S, and by the time it actually launches perhaps an A7S mk III...

Course, Panasonic's main problem is the only recent cameras they have suitable for cinematic style work below 20K are the GH4 and the Varicam LT which is an insane price gap. DVX200 doesn't fit the bill for most, nice product for those who like it. But it's been 6 years since Panasonic has decided to play anywhere in the $5k-$12k cinema-style camera market. Would LOVE to see Panny's answer the Sony FS5/FS7... unfortunately, that's the Varicam LT... awesome... but super spendy. And also very heavy once kitted.

Anyway... hard to picture buying another M4/3 camera in 2017 with all the options out there unless they really kill it with DR, lowlight, slow motion, codec, resolution. If they do, speedboosters can make up the rest. If they don't, shoot.

Also, a GH5 with an electronic (over the sensor) variable ND ala the Sony FS5 would be *VERY* intriguing. I would think it would fit in the body, seeing as how its electronic.
 
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Disappointing that they didn't include a S35 sensor with an M43 mount + M43 crop mode, it really would have been a fantastic product thanks to the speedboosters (just leave it on M43 crop mode, but attach a speedbooster and then use the sensor @ full S35).

Hard to see how they will compete with the likes of the A7S, etc. keeping the M43 sensor. Unless they can crank the DR up to 14 stops and get some much higher ISOs looking very clean (and of course the aforementioned higher bitrates + 4K slow motion) I can't think of a reason to stick around with M4/3. It's hardly more portable these days than an A7S, and by the time it actually launches perhaps an A7S mk III...

Course, Panasonic's main problem is the only recent cameras they have suitable for cinematic style work below 20K are the GH4 and the Varicam LT which is an insane price gap. DVX200 doesn't fit the bill for most, nice product for those who like it. But it's been 6 years since Panasonic has decided to play anywhere in the $5k-$12k cinema-style camera market. Would LOVE to see Panny's answer the Sony FS5/FS7... unfortunately, that's the Varicam LT... awesome... but super spendy. And also very heavy once kitted.

Anyway... hard to picture buying another M4/3 camera in 2017 with all the options out there unless they really kill it with DR, lowlight, slow motion, codec, resolution. If they do, speedboosters can make up the rest. If they don't, shoot.

Also, a GH5 with an electronic (over the sensor) variable ND ala the Sony FS5 would be *VERY* intriguing. I would think it would fit in the body, seeing as how its electronic.

I actually agree with a lot of this. What can the GH series compete for in a world where there's the A7S(R) series? It can't just be price, although it's a good 40% less expensive, which is nothing to sneeze at, but ultimately, it's a drop in the bucket considering you need lenses and everything else to make a system work. That's the problem - where does the m4/3 format go, since the GH is the flagship body? The Sony doesn't have the same lens support of native lenses that Panny has for the m4/3, but if the future is with Sony they'll eventually deliver on the lenses, and who is going to stick with the m4/3 with bodies falling further and further behind. Sony is just delivering on features, and Panny seems somehow too timid and conservative - a day late and a dollar short. I can't even get too excited by the GH5 - if I'm really honest with myself, I don't believe they'll blow me away with what comes. I think the m4/3 format is in trouble. YMMV.
 
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