Nirv's Grading Preset

joy new media said:
Isn't the whole point of contributing to forums simply to share info and experiences and add to the collective knowledge base? These things take time to sort out, I was planning on adding it to my PP's to test while shooting next week at the Republican National Convention. I think your cause could have been helped with screenshots to demonstrate its benefits.

I know virtually nothing about grading, but I'm working on it, and a lot of the settings on the FS are a major mystery that I'm trying to unravel. I'm thankful for PP's that have been posted as its really helped me get comfortable with working with a camera that's far more complex than the 5d2 I was shooting with prior to the FS100. Those with knowledge to share I really appreciate, and you've had some really informative posts that have certainly helped me out. I don't shoot cinema though, just low-rent commercials until my post production chops and demo reel get better.

But IMHO its incredibly petty that your "thank you" counter didn't reach a certain number relative to what you perceive other threads are getting so you took your toy and ran away. My 4-year-old daughter had some sharing issues so my wife and I had her read this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Mine-Shelly-B...e=UTF8&qid=1345929495&sr=1-3&keywords=sharing

Perhaps you might find it helpful as well. It seemed to work for her, she plays with others much better after reading it. I'm not going to beg you to repost - I'm fine with the PP's from Frank, Abel and others that are still posted - even if I haven't sent them a thank you card.

cheers
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I feel vindicated in pulling that info down now, not only because you're a sanctimonious birk but I would've been horrified that my preset be used to cover a right wing nutball conference.

You seem to think it is your right to have the culmination of hours and hours of testing to make a preset that favours no one colour, works with any method of white balancing and grades like a champ with no show of appreciation. None of those presets that you hold in such esteem actually do hold up so good luck to you with them. It's much better to wait for someone to deliver a preset to YOU than do the hard yards and work out how to get the best from the camera. I can see why you think it's petty to pull the preset because YOU never put the hours in developing it and making sure it was fit for purpose did YOU?

No doubt someone did write it down and in due course will release it under their name and be lauded as a great servant to the community and improve their blog views.

I have provided masses of information to this community without ever expecting a thank you. So I'll take my leave of this "community" and take my 25 years of experience in cameras and post production and vfx with me and leave the floor to YOU Mr. Joy New Media. What can YOU bring to the party? I hope YOU can do more than a child's reading list? However, I suspect YOU can't.
 
Nirv said:
I feel vindicated in pulling that info down now, not only because you're a sanctimonious birk but I would've been horrified that my preset be used to cover a right wing nutball conference.

You seem to think it is your right to have the culmination of hours and hours of testing to make a preset that favours no one colour, works with any method of white balancing and grades like a champ with no show of appreciation. None of those presets that you hold in such esteem actually do hold up so good luck to you with them. It's much better to wait for someone to deliver a preset to YOU than do the hard yards and work out how to get the best from the camera. I can see why you think it's petty to pull the preset because YOU never put the hours in developing it and making sure it was fit for purpose did YOU?
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I'm actually going to be outside the RNC with the protestors and happenings outside the arena, where the real action will be, especially with a hurricane on the way. Watch the news, I'll be the tall guy in the crowds with the FS100 and vari-ND on my lens and Manfrotto video monopod Anyway...

In all my years, across many different forums from cars, motorcycles, mountain bikes, photography, coffee and so on I've never seen anyone put up a how-to, tutorial or any other helpful info and then remove it because they didn't get "lauded as a great servant to the community." That's petty and narcissistic. Your description of how great you and your PP is confirms that.

petty adj. 1. of small importance; trivial: a petty grievance, Characterized by an undue concern for trivial matters, esp. in a small-minded or spiteful way.
nar·cis·sist. /ˈnɑrsəsɪst/ Show Spelled[nahr-suh-sist] noun. 1. a person who is overly self-involved, and often vain and selfish.
 
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Well for me, there's been three great things in this thread so far...

1) NIRV's preset, i tested it, its very similar to what i use already, it's nice to see someone else using this approach.

But NIRV did caveat that you need to be working with a system that reliably maintains 0-1023, that seems to cut out alot of the folks who use post software that does not maintain this (or injests and then kneecaps afterwards) so it's not for everyone, NIRV mentioned FCX as holding full range without issues, i also have zero issues using Avid Media Composer and Lightworks, if you are using FCP7 or PP it may not be a great fit, you would need to test it through to a master output.

2) FuGZ's "what ever there was in Malacca"... FuGZ, you rok! I'd hang out with you guys anytime

3) "lamestream media" - great handle.

My thoughts? I can roll my own, i have a HDMI-> HDSDI converter, scopes and a grade A mon.. i try out just about every PP that i see, NIRV's is one of the few that are working with the same concepts as i am.. many of the profiles out there are faux log, and focused on 64-940 range... neither of them are a plus to me.. and yea i know LOG gradeing, i know what the advantages are in the real world.. but in the day of P3 and ACES, LOG is seemingly a bit past it's sell by date anyway...

My thoughts? Roll your own, build it to deliver what you consider important, not someone else, build it to fit your post chain - not someone elses.


Then test test test....

d
 
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I don't get out into the forums too often and I seldom make it over to dvxuser.com - but I thought I'd poke my head in here today for a bit. I found some very informative posts by you (Nirv), but then, just when I got excited that you made a PP, I found this. This is pretty childish behavior, by anyone's standards. I would have loved to have tested out your PP for myself - but I guess I missed the narrow window of appreciation that was there...

That said - does anyone have the settings that they could post? Thanks in advance...

Nirv said:
I feel vindicated in pulling that info down now, not only because you're a sanctimonious birk but I would've been horrified that my preset be used to cover a right wing nutball conference.

You seem to think it is your right to have the culmination of hours and hours of testing to make a preset that favours no one colour, works with any method of white balancing and grades like a champ with no show of appreciation. None of those presets that you hold in such esteem actually do hold up so good luck to you with them. It's much better to wait for someone to deliver a preset to YOU than do the hard yards and work out how to get the best from the camera. I can see why you think it's petty to pull the preset because YOU never put the hours in developing it and making sure it was fit for purpose did YOU?

No doubt someone did write it down and in due course will release it under their name and be lauded as a great servant to the community and improve their blog views.

I have provided masses of information to this community without ever expecting a thank you. So I'll take my leave of this "community" and take my 25 years of experience in cameras and post production and vfx with me and leave the floor to YOU Mr. Joy New Media. What can YOU bring to the party? I hope YOU can do more than a child's reading list? However, I suspect YOU can't.
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CaptainSKA said:
That said - does anyone
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You might watch Sam Morgan's two linked video's, above.

Then you could chat with him, and 1 or 2 others from the thread. Maybe start a thread about Sam's profiles, etc.
who have created their own profiles that they like.


FWIW, I have only Canon DSLR's right now. But I follow a lot of these discussions to learn more about the available tools that I can't justify owning right now (not making any money/not working right now.)


Cheers!
Michael
 
Hi Nirv, can you repost your PP? I'd love to try it out but it seems to be gone now. I just got an FS100 and joined the forum and am trying out a lot of different PPs. If your profile is really as great as you say it is I'd love to try it!
 
I'm using G-Log Ultimate 1.0 right now anyways, I guess I'll fill the rest of my profiles up with AbelCine PPs, no loss really, just curious.
 
Hey, i am following most of the talkings here. and to be honest - i think this is always like that if you are trying to get your information out of posts (which repeat and of course also distribute misinformation (so many people told so stupid things about superwhites and especially how avid is handling them), because there is no quality control. and i mean you can get such wonderfull ideas, informations out of forums but it is hard work.

for example:
alister chapman commented on dvinfo on the glog ultimate: "I looked at this PP and while it does give a little better highlighby roll off, by raising the black gamma all that is happening is that the noise floor is getting pulled up along with the base levels. The signal to noise ratio does not change, so there isn't any increase in usable shadow information."
and
"The raised black levels and noise floor mean that anything below 10% is just wasted data and because your not utilising your over exposure headroom fully your wasting another 10% at the top. So out out your available 235 data bits your only using around 200. The profile gives about an 11 stop range so that's only 18 grey shades per stop."

No one really replied to that, (expect about the highlight roll off) so i dont really now if g log ultimate is really that good. and i cant really test it because i dont cc on my own. in fact i am a documentary director and i have to invest 90% of my time on content. so i cant do camera tests, i have to do other stuff. but i film on my own without a cameraman and i want the best possible quality.

i know, i know i should test them in different situations and so on. but i dont have the time, i have to apply for funds and i am producing on my own, so i am a bit of a parasite who is getting internet informations about forums and blogs ( i think thats 90% of the people not contributing). and i hope you dont mind, because i dont harm anyone and as i said before to be really sure about an information you got out of the internet you have to double check and so much misinformation so even this is not just 10min getting g-log ultimate and thats it. because then i read that shooting flat can destroy so much if you are doing it wrong... and so on things are getting more and more complicated the more you are making research.

so of course i can understand nirv. but still it is a pitty. and the funny thing, now that ist limited everyone seems to want this pp. and of course nirv is contributing to a myth making process: the ultimate profile that gets everything out of the camera.

so i also have a question. i am making a documentary in cairo. i am filming in streets with no light, i will not set any light because this film is not about perfect light, its about beeing as near as possible with my protagonist. so much night shots outdoor and indoor with lets say just a 60watt ordinary light source... and filming in the sun, in the dessert.
what profiles would you recommend?
Thanks for answering, of course i can understand if you dont want
until now i filmed much with the nex 5n and the rest with the fs-100 with ab range

would you recommend strapping, ab range or g log ultimate or even another one. are there others for lowlight?
cheers
 
The black gamma does add noise but is does make darker information easier to see on the LCD and therefore stops you over exposing and losing highlights so I think it is valid to use it even though you can get the same effect in post.

I agree with the over exposure point, it's vital that presets make use of the over exposure area. Most presets I see just use similar settings to the Abelcine presets which are OK but don't make the best use of the over exposure area. The FS100 is capable of excellent highlight performance if you set the knee and slope appropriately.

Sony has capped the FS100 dynamic range at 11 stops and you don't get anymore from different gamma curves unlike the Cinegammas on the FS700. The CineTones of the FS100 just "grade" the 11 stops of information from the sensor and give you a better distribution of these data for the lighting of a particular scene.

I didn't understand Alister C's comment read Blue Luma. The depth controls move the gamma not the gain and only by a small amount anyway. I can't test his statement due to not having the camera but his statement doesn't ring true for me. Looking at footage shot with my presets that change the Depth of certain channels show no such issues with highlight handling. By changing the B and C channels you can get some lovely punchy skies that look like you've used a polariser on them. Similarly G and Y channels Depth can make grass punchy too.

@jakobdvx
If I had such a worthy project I'd make time to learn how to set up the camera for optimal results not hoping someone would post "the answer" (that you have no idea is right) to a web forum. Or employ a camera operator who does know what they're doing.

It should be obvious to anyone who has fiddled with the preset settings which would be correct for lowlight. No?

BTW, I'm not creating any myth about my PP but thanks for that slur anyway. The people asking for it and some demanding I release on PMs are only interested now because they can't have it. Few were interested when I released it, even fewer could be bothered to express thanks for the effort it took to make it and test it. The preset has gone along with my camera to a new owner so don't keep asking for it. Move on, learn how to do yourself.
 
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well I never thanked you because I never got a chance to try it out..on the other I had I tried out the other one from the other guy lets call him Frank and I thanked him because its what I needed. I made 2 presets for my old HMC 150 , never did I expect well... whatever right.
 
Hey,

thanks for the answer.
As I said I am a director and story, dramaturgy is much more important. so I invest all my time for that and the 1% for equipment. and to be honest i know much about equipment, its only pp i dont have the time. in working in the film there is too much were you can dig in. and i decided to set a stop and this stop equipemtwise is pp. yeah sure i can get a dop. but most of them know less technicalwise than me. i mean lets be true most cameramans have no ides about pp. i know one person who is always talking about the great lenses he has and about the fantastic resolution. he is shooing 5d mark 2 in big commercials and has no idea that this camera can not shot even 1080. and i mean every photo lens can get you this 2 megapixel, a good lens is not about resolution. but to behonest, he has no clue but still he does a great job. and i will do a great job for my documentary. and there is a reason i shoot on my own because it is a very sensibel protagonist and subject. so its just me and him and sometimes a translator. thats it. to be authentic to be with him is so much more important than any good picture. but thats just my opinion.
@frank: thanks for the tip. its just i heard from some posts that your glog profiles are too flat. and flat pp can destroy more than they gain. would you recommend glog a or b (and why did you change it for the firmware update - i mean after a somemythmaking process it seamed obvious to me that 2.0 didnt change anything picturewise)

cheers

jakob
 
@Jakobdvx

I want to thank you for posting your candour is admirable. I had been wondering if I had made the correct decision to sell my FS100 and your post really helped.

Why bother with the craft of filmmaking and making sure a camera is set up in an optimal way if the customer (director) doesn't give a sh1t? A DSLR and dope holding it seems to be the accepted practice. Good luck with your documentary.

I come from an era where you tried to match a great story with great images and sound fortunately animation (my paying profession) has a huge barrier to entry in the form of skill which keeps bozos out of it. Long may that continue.
 
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