New RED camera?

Dafilman21 said:
I think there is something to be said to getting shooters in the system and having them grow in it. And why not?
Click to expand...
Because the "system", as it were, is also on its way out for the majority of shooters. Looking at the new (slightly crippled) Sony units and projecting about a year forward, I figure there'll be a sub-$10,000 camera recording some sort of a Log in HEVC at ~ 120-150 Mbps (ProRes 4:2:2 HQ equivalent) internally onto an in-body 200 GB SSD for 4+ hours of footage. Then the footage will be offloaded via USB 3.1 onto the editing station. And this will suffice for anything, including the high budget TV and features.* No need for the special codes, extra storage mags, etc.

*Obviously, the high budget productions will still go for the top tier equipment but the difference between that $10,000 camera and a $300,000 ARRI Alexa65 will be negligible in the hands of the same operator and completely lost on even the most discerning home viewer.
 
DLD said:
Because the "system", as it were, is also on its way out for the majority of shooters. Looking at the new (slightly crippled) Sony units and projecting about a year forward, I figure there'll be a sub-$10,000 camera recording some sort of a Log in HEVC at ~ 120-150 Mbps (ProRes 4:2:2 HQ equivalent) internally onto an in-body 200 GB SSD for 4+ hours of footage. Then the footage will be offloaded via USB 3.1 onto the editing station. And this will suffice for anything, including the high budget TV and features.* No need for the special codes, extra storage mags, etc.

*Obviously, the high budget productions will still go for the top tier equipment but the difference between that $10,000 camera and a $300,000 ARRI Alexa65 will be negligible in the hands of the same operator and completely lost on even the most discerning home viewer.
Click to expand...

I dunno about all that in a year, but I am just spitballing about MAYBE what they are thinking. Although reading over at Reduser they don't want a RED camera priced at Ursa Mini levels. So who knows
 
Dafilman21 said:
I dunno about all that in a year, but I am just spitballing about MAYBE what they are thinking. Although reading over at Reduser they don't want a RED camera priced at Ursa Mini levels. So who knows
Click to expand...
From my old business classes, this actually make sense. Owning a premium product purchased at premium prices gives is owners a sense of superiority (not that one'd notice that from reading Red User ... ahem). In other words, people buy a badge, be it an Mercedes Benz AMG, Porsche 911, Armani, 90210, etc. Sell an AMG/911 entry level model for the price of a Toyota Avalon and a lot of people will no longer feel as if they belong to the elite.

As to my timing guesses. FS5 with the Raw attachment - let's estimate it at $2,400 - will be ~ $8,000 total. Add an external recorder for $2,000 more and that's your $10,000 Raw combo from a major manufacturer. And URSA will do it for even less.
 
Dafilman21 said:
I dunno about all that in a year, but I am just spitballing about MAYBE what they are thinking. Although reading over at Reduser they don't want a RED camera priced at Ursa Mini levels. So who knows
Click to expand...

To be honest, I wouldn't either if I invested in a RED system years ago. Ofcourse, it's best for most if prices are low, but I would hate a company like Blackmagic with what they are doing. I wouldn't want these cameras in everyone's hands.

When I used to PA years ago, the old timers would tell me there are only a few groups of people around the area doing most of the work because they were the only ones with the high-end gear. Now, if a 21-year-old out of college has the same camera and will do the job for thousands less, that's not ideal. I have learned that sometimes experience doesn't matter much these days because people will pay less if it looks good enough.
 
I find people will pay for quality if they have been exposed to it. The problem is you are right some people just don't care and if it looks good enough go with the cheaper guy. Kinda like the luxury car knockoffs that Hyundai makes. If you glance quickly you could mistake it for a Benz!
 
The car thing is different...people will know a Mercedes.

No one will know/care if your video is made by this company or that company. As long as it's "clear", "sharp" and "bright"...and the editing is good...you're all set.
 
NorBro said:
The car thing is different...people will know a Mercedes.

No one will know/care if your video is made by this company or that company. As long as it's "clear", "sharp" and "bright"...and the editing is good...you're all set.
Click to expand...

That's why I said with a quick glance. Also there are plenty of people that don't know cars at all. Yes they might know a Benz or a BMW but they don't know much else. So yea kinda like production gear!
 
indiawilds said:
Tough for RED to compete with the C300's strengths. It can't compete on the low light abilities of the C300. Nor can it compete on the battery life. Tiny batteries of C300 lasts a long long time. And if RED goes for the money making mini mags, then again you are not competing.
Click to expand...

I agree that the battery requirements and the ability higher ISOs are a benefit to using a C300 for certain types of "available light" shooting. Another would be more compressed, ready to hand over codecs. These features are good for doc shooting and event shooting especially where you have to dump the cards for good at the end of the day. I've been goofing around with 18:1 compression and it's fine, so for interviews storage is probably not an issue but I'd still have to transcode for some of my clients. The CFast cards for the new C300 go for $500 so that ain't exactly cheap.

Can RED create a camera (complete ready to shoot system) below 10k usd? RED's manufacturing is not tuned for mass market.
Click to expand...

If it's competing with the C300 they don't have to. It is selling for $16K.

We all want RED to be competitive.
Click to expand...

It just depends on where in the marketplace they want to compete. Anyway, it's a RED. It's a kind of a different thing. For me, it's a cinema camera and not a do-it-all run and gun compressed video camera. I agree, I don't think they want to compete with them. Of course, I could be dead wrong. That'd be a surprise ;)
 
Last edited:
4K 120fps..... well that throws out the window any ultra slim hopes I had about pricing.
Let's guess pricing now of #4Kforall, price of small car or small house? :-P
 
Surf it Mike said:
120fps @ 4k

https://video.xx.fbcdn.net/hvideo-xtp1/v/t43.1792-2/12005190_10153201887955415_1548783756_n.mp4?efg=eyJybHIiOjE1MDAsInJsYSI6MTAyNH0%3D&rl=1500&vabr=123&oh=107a488e3beae061100af1cd4db8672b&oe=55F80B1F
Click to expand...
epic MX and epic dragon can do 120fps @ 4K with the mini mags.....compression is pretty horrible at that point though.....sensors are cropped and i don't think anyone would really use this for 4K delivery.....even with existing high end RED dragon.....
 
That's what I thought last year but they seem to have made some progress with their next generation of products.
 
Dafilman21 said:
Huh? That implies that you cant use BMD cameras in a professional setting. Which of course is ludicrous
Click to expand...

Tell that to the clients who ask for RED.

It's not about what cameras can do.
Heck you could probably use a GoPro for many jobs these days.
It's about how clients view pay scale and their expectations, not yours.
Any client who is accustomed to RED would not be happy if you showed up with a Blackmagic camera.
So no, Blackmagic is not the new RED, except for enduser's here who are still hoping to have the same level of quality for 1/10th the price.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top