New RED camera?

hscully said:
What??? The new Scarlet is the Dragon sensor. It shoots 5K FF at 24 fps. I don't think that's correct for the MX sensor but the Dragon gets 16 stops and rolls off beautifully on the high end. There's an Epic Dragon. There's not an Epic and a Dragon. As for the resolution, whatever. I haven't even seen anything I shot with my RED in 4K yet. Take it easy. They have actual engineers working on this stuff. I'm thinking they know what they are saying your varied experience notwithstanding.

Look, I get it. Some people don't like REDs. OK, but if there's a new one coming that people can affordand they can make their business work with it, it's a good thing for anyone who wants to consider it... or not. Jeez.
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I was referring to the MX scarlet which is still available in the store.....the dragon scarlet is 15k for the brain alone.....
red lists dragon as 16+ stops DR.....I completely agree that dragon has probably 1.5 stops more DR over epic MX and much better highlight roll off but that still does not put it anywhere near 16 stops.....
i loved and still love the files I got out of my epic MX and would love to see a truly competitive ( price and real world specs) camera from red.....just don't see how they can even consider a lower end when they have more or less abandoned the mid range and have been undercut (specs and price) by the rest of the industry on the lower end.....
at one point in time ( when I bought mine) the scarlet MX was the only somewhat affordable 4K raw solution available......5 years later it is still almost the same price and there are plenty of simply better (raw, not raw, bigger, smaller, lighter) and much cheaper solutions available.....
 
Paul schefz said:
I was referring to the MX scarlet which is still available in the store.....the dragon scarlet is 15k for the brain alone.....
red lists dragon as 16+ stops DR.....I completely agree that dragon has probably 1.5 stops more DR over epic MX and much better highlight roll off but that still does not put it anywhere near 16 stops.....
i loved and still love the files I got out of my epic MX and would love to see a truly competitive ( price and real world specs) camera from red.....just don't see how they can even consider a lower end when they have more or less abandoned the mid range and have been undercut (specs and price) by the rest of the industry on the lower end.....
at one point in time ( when I bought mine) the scarlet MX was the only somewhat affordable 4K raw solution available......5 years later it is still almost the same price and there are plenty of simply better (raw, not raw, bigger, smaller, lighter) and much cheaper solutions available.....
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Oh. I see. I thought you meant the new one. I guess it depends on where you would like to see them compete. If you're looking at the C300 crowd then they will be able to compete. The great advantage to many other cameras is the ability to provide an HD or 4K video codec output other than RAW for jobs where your clients want to pass on Redcode RAW or any other RAW. If RED makes this a Weapon with ProRes it could be very disruptive IF they can keep it down to around than $15K ready to shoot. I think that's where they would be aiming

However, the other systems have a much clunkier RAW workflow, either uncompressed or requiring other recorders and they ain't Redcode RAW on board, which you already know from owning one, is great.

I would be very surprised if this were meant to compete below $10K. I guess we'll see.
 
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The RED Raven teaser picture shows it using expensive mini mags for storage. $2450 for 512GB. $850 for 120Gb. $1400 for 240Gb. But if it includes REDcode then the RAW is compressed variably, requiring less storage than other RAW solutions.
 
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well they are teasing this camera with 4k4all hashtag, so imho it will be 4k for 4k...but to make it actually work it becomes a 8k camera at least
 
mcnys said:
well they are teasing this camera with 4k4all hashtag, so imho it will be 4k for 4k...but to make it actually work it becomes a 8k camera at least
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4k4all doesn't mean it will be $4k. It might be less it might be more. Anyway, I don't think they'll even touch BMD Ursa mini. But for Red owners it might be a nice B-cam.
 
RED: 4K4ALL = Fork over $4K, then fork another $4K to make it work. We don't need no stinking specs, we are RED.
 
I would love to join you all in either praising or bashing RED, but one of two things need to happen first. They need to release a significantly cheaper camera or I need to get paid more. Preferably the latter but whatever comes first.
 
philiplipetz said:
The RED Raven teaser picture shows it using expensive mini mags for storage. $2450 for 512GB. $850 for 120Gb. $1400 for 240Gb. But if it includes REDcode then the RAW is compressed variably, requiring less storage than other RAW solutions.
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Right. Redcode RAW is pretty good space-wise. At some resolutions ProRes is bigger. One thing, on the speculation front, when they launched Weapon the MiniMags became mandatory to handle those data rates which provide for less compression, if you need that, and writing ProRes at the same time. So.... maybe it has something to do with that.
 
Unless it is 4k frames per second, which could explain why it uses the expensive minimags for storage. i don't see minimags in a low end $4k body as people are speculating. Hope I am wrong..
 
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Dafilman21 said:
I think there is something to be said to getting shooters in the system and having them grow in it. And why not?
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Thats the marketing scheme of a drug dealer too. You're in an overpriced system you have a hard time getting out of without a severe loss. At least Blackmagic has the decency to consistently cut the prices of their already affordably priced products so you're not in an ever spiraling hole of financial anxiety.
 
hscully said:
Oh. I see. I thought you meant the new one. I guess it depends on where you would like to see them compete. If you're looking at the C300 crowd then they will be able to compete. The great advantage to many other cameras is the ability to provide an HD or 4K video codec output other than RAW for jobs where your clients want to pass on Redcode RAW or any other RAW. If RED makes this a Weapon with ProRes it could be very disruptive IF they can keep it down to around than $15K ready to shoot. I think that's where they would be aiming

However, the other systems have a much clunkier RAW workflow, either uncompressed or requiring other recorders and they ain't Redcode RAW on board, which you already know from owning one, is great.

I would be very surprised if this were meant to compete below $10K. I guess we'll see.
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Tough for RED to compete with the C300's strengths. It can't compete on the low light abilities of the C300. Nor can it compete on the battery life. Tiny batteries of C300 lasts a long long time. And if RED goes for the money making mini mags, then again you are not competing.

Can RED create a camera (complete ready to shoot system) below 10k usd? RED's manufacturing is not tuned for mass market. Their founder Jim Jannard had earlier talked about Made in USA and had said that he is not going to set up manufacturing lines in India or China. So they can't do mass products at a reasonable cost. So I don't expect them to become a value for money brand.

RED was the original Rebel and started as a disrupter. Later it choose to become the establishment (ie high end). BMD has taken RED's mantel of disrupter. To some extent the AJA is also a disrupter though its first attempt didn't meet up to expectations and compete against the hype of BMD.

Now RED is losing a lot of its customers to competition. A lot of its owner operator customers can't afford to keep up with the upgrade cycle and have now ended up buying products of competitors. So it would be interesting to see the specs and pricing of the RED Raven. We all want RED to be competitive.

By the way, why the teasers/announcements of RED cameras are first shared in Facebook before being posted on Reduser?
 
mico said:
Thats the marketing scheme of a drug dealer too. You're in an overpriced system you have a hard time getting out of without a severe loss. At least Blackmagic has the decency to consistently cut the prices of their already affordably priced products so you're not in an ever spiraling hole of financial anxiety.
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Here is the thing if you can't afford the system in the first place DON'T BUY IT. But I do agree BMD is more budget friendly and the new footage from the 4K sensor on the Mini has me not caring for the Raven right now. Unless the Raven comes in at the same price and spec. Which I doubt right now.
 
If Red are truly hitting the Sub $10K market ready to shoot then the camera has got to be either severely restricted from the Scarlet or a re-housing of the old electronics from past upgrade programs. What did they do with all the MX sensors & boards from Dragon upgrades?
 
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