New cameras
- Thread starter Bucknfl
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Erich Roland
New member
Jan, I am new here and havent figured out the quote thing yet.
(Jan said) "And by the way, my name is Jan. "
So everyone knows we have met a few times and interacted on these forums a bunch of times, as well as had emails between us over a number of years. So sorry, of coarse I know your name..... we often call it a "typo", and I make many!
(Jan said) "Well you obviously don't know everyone in DC, as there are a good slug of them there but it might be that you really don't."
I'm sure I don't know everyone in DC. Maybe its just news organizations. That's a different world for sure. But a funny things happens when a snowball grows, it usually rises all ships. In other words, when there are enough cameras out there working a format eventually it spills into my shop somehow or another. If its all news then it may not, but if its not news then I will see it, feel it, and know people who buy it, because this is a small town and Ive been here a long time.
News is different story all together and I know little about it. Is that where you sell most of the P2 shoulder cameras, the news?
thanks, Erich
(Jan said) "And by the way, my name is Jan. "
So everyone knows we have met a few times and interacted on these forums a bunch of times, as well as had emails between us over a number of years. So sorry, of coarse I know your name..... we often call it a "typo", and I make many!
(Jan said) "Well you obviously don't know everyone in DC, as there are a good slug of them there but it might be that you really don't."
I'm sure I don't know everyone in DC. Maybe its just news organizations. That's a different world for sure. But a funny things happens when a snowball grows, it usually rises all ships. In other words, when there are enough cameras out there working a format eventually it spills into my shop somehow or another. If its all news then it may not, but if its not news then I will see it, feel it, and know people who buy it, because this is a small town and Ive been here a long time.
News is different story all together and I know little about it. Is that where you sell most of the P2 shoulder cameras, the news?
thanks, Erich
Perhaps I'm confused, but what do these comments contribute to the discussion?
This isn't about Jan or Barry or anyone else, but the market.
ATL Media Group
Veteran
Ya.. What the heck is Jan doing coming in here squashing misinformation and helping out the users! I'd rather never see anyone from Panasonic come by! Heck by the looks of her post count it's easy to see she's nothing more than a troll unlike the massive post count from Erich!
heh
rogar-BlackEye(DBG
Mike Harvey
Veteran
Ya.. What the heck is Jan doing coming in here squashing misinformation and helping out the users! I'd rather never see anyone from Panasonic come by! Heck by the looks of her post count it's easy to see she's nothing more than a troll unlike the massive post count from Erich!
heh
Hey, let's keep it civil... whether we agree with him or not, this thread was about an article Erich wrote somewhere else that was reposted here. He has every right to come here and defend it, especially after so many of us ripped int it. A low post count can't be held against him, much as Jan defending the product she works on or the company she works for shouldn't be held against her.
Let's keep it to the arguments presented in the article and leave it at that.
Superfresa66
Well-known member
I second that Mike... We're not kids, each person is allowed his/her opinion and they bring great points!
So many people on the web forums lack basic sense of humor. At least DVXUser is more relaxed than some other -- strictly business, only real names -- places. To me, there was nothing uncivil in ATL's message, just some good old tongue in cheek.
Erich Roland
New member
David, Wow I cant have a "side note" question in this thread? I just found it weird how she shows up literally minutes after a posting what might have a hint of critical thoughts. And I was wondering if this has become a primary function and her job for Panasonic, but that wasn't answered. Are you not curious?
I don't know I'm raising the question. As this thread is attempting to do, raise questions not provide answers.
I'm happy to try and stay on point, but sometimes distractions happen. You went through the motions to post and dwell on the distraction yourself, no?
Where do you think we should be headed in camera design and field storage? Do you think P2 is the answer, and were done with that question for many years to come?
ER
I don't know I'm raising the question. As this thread is attempting to do, raise questions not provide answers.
I'm happy to try and stay on point, but sometimes distractions happen. You went through the motions to post and dwell on the distraction yourself, no?
Where do you think we should be headed in camera design and field storage? Do you think P2 is the answer, and were done with that question for many years to come?
ER
Of course you can, but wouldn't it be better to PM her about that?
I just don't want this to be about Jan and Barry, because your first post started out with that.
I just don't want this to be about Jan and Barry, because your first post started out with that.
Erich.
I used to be a huge tape fan. Then I switched to p2 with a bunch of trepidation, and after threeplus years with it, I'll never use tape again.
File based video presents a bunch of workflow issues, backup being the most significant. But I feel the advantages outweigh the shortcomings.
I've also owned and enjoyed a HMC150, and got accustomed to the SDHC based acquisition.
Transcoding was an issue, as was concern about the AVCHD footage breaking apart too much for me when going to SD DVD.
What would I like? AVCIntra with a 3CCC half inch chip recorded to the next generation of SDHC cards in a 170/150 form factor and improved lense.
All that for about $6k. Any gonna happen. Change to a full raster 3MOS chip with attenuated rolling shutter issues, and I'm good to go.
But tape -- not for me any more.
I used to be a huge tape fan. Then I switched to p2 with a bunch of trepidation, and after threeplus years with it, I'll never use tape again.
File based video presents a bunch of workflow issues, backup being the most significant. But I feel the advantages outweigh the shortcomings.
I've also owned and enjoyed a HMC150, and got accustomed to the SDHC based acquisition.
Transcoding was an issue, as was concern about the AVCHD footage breaking apart too much for me when going to SD DVD.
What would I like? AVCIntra with a 3CCC half inch chip recorded to the next generation of SDHC cards in a 170/150 form factor and improved lense.
All that for about $6k. Any gonna happen. Change to a full raster 3MOS chip with attenuated rolling shutter issues, and I'm good to go.
But tape -- not for me any more.
ATL Media Group
Veteran
Thanks, yes. I was just joking. Just making note that Jan and Barry have been helping and supporting here for a long time, and how Erich first posted the jab towards Jan for coming here to defend her company.
Mike Harvey
Veteran
Oh, I have a sense of humor... anyone who knows me knows that. And that is the problem. No one on this board knows me in real life, and it's probably like that for the majority of folks here. The problem with internet boards is that what was taken as a joke by one person might not be by the next... especially since there isn't facial expressions, body movements, and vocal inflections from just plain text. It came across to me as a joke... but also implying that Erich was nothing but a troll for showing up to defend piece he wrote that someone else posted. Figured it would be better to nip something in the bud before the conversation went downhill. That's all.
Erich Roland
New member
David, I think its great that you have adapted and made Panasonic's system work for you, and your happy with the work flow! Clearly there are many like you who use it and love it. But there are also many who do not share your enthusiasm. I asked myself why is that.... looked around, and talked to a lot of people to came up with a cross section of what I believe to be WHY P2 has not taken over the world as the advocates would suggest is happening. (original post)
My search for answers began with a lack of rentals, and migrated to the question of what could be better? Since P2 was designed and built years ago now, might they do it differently today.... if so what would it look like? Would it be based on consumer SD cards and re-packaged (P2) or some other way to store digits? Whats keeping us from moving on to something that makes more sense? Maybe CF cards off the shelf would work just fine and bypass what has been a critisizm from day one ... price of P2 cards. But price of cards is just one of the issues, there are many.
Anyway, I think things have shifted very fast in the last year, and will keep changing very fast in the next few years, so these companies need to be nimble if not rubber in where they draw the line in the sand with they're products. The 3700 price drop is an example. The economy (as many point out) has had a big influence.... duh, and it will always have a strong influence, all the more reason for flexible, innovative, adaptable design's.
I cant seem to copy the link here but over at the "Cow" in the Varicam area there is an interesting thread titled "systems and solutions? just say no" began a few weeks ago by John Cummings another free lance cameraman.
thanks for being willing to listen and engage.
Erich
http://www.hitechreview.com/it-products/flash-drives/toshiba-64gb-sdxc-memory-card/13864/
Toshiba to Launch the World’s First 64GB SDXC Memory Card
Toshiba Corporation, a leading innovator in NAND flash memory technologies and solutions, today announced the launch of the world’s first 64GB SDXC Memory Card1 with the world’s fastest data transfer rate2 compliant with the new SD Memory Standard Ver. 3.00, UHS 1043. Toshiba also extended its industry-leadership in memory card solutions by unveiling 32GB and 16GB SDHC Memory Cards compliant with the world’s fastest data transfer rate4. Sample shipments of the new SDXC Memory Cards for OEM manufacturers will start this November, and of the new SDHC Memory Cards in December. Both products will be available at retailers next spring.
The new SDXC and SDHC Memory Cards are the world’s first memory cards compliant with the SD Memory Card Standard Ver. 3.00, UHS104, which brings a new level of ultra-fast read and write speeds to NAND flash based memory cards: a maximum write speed of 35MB per second, and a read speed of 60MB per second. The specifications meet strong market demand for cards combining high level performance with increased data capacity, in order to support such applications as high speed continuous shooting for digital still cameras and high resolution video recording for digital camcorders, and high speed transfers of those data from/ to other media.
Toshiba to Launch the World’s First 64GB SDXC Memory Card
Toshiba Corporation, a leading innovator in NAND flash memory technologies and solutions, today announced the launch of the world’s first 64GB SDXC Memory Card1 with the world’s fastest data transfer rate2 compliant with the new SD Memory Standard Ver. 3.00, UHS 1043. Toshiba also extended its industry-leadership in memory card solutions by unveiling 32GB and 16GB SDHC Memory Cards compliant with the world’s fastest data transfer rate4. Sample shipments of the new SDXC Memory Cards for OEM manufacturers will start this November, and of the new SDHC Memory Cards in December. Both products will be available at retailers next spring.
The new SDXC and SDHC Memory Cards are the world’s first memory cards compliant with the SD Memory Card Standard Ver. 3.00, UHS104, which brings a new level of ultra-fast read and write speeds to NAND flash based memory cards: a maximum write speed of 35MB per second, and a read speed of 60MB per second. The specifications meet strong market demand for cards combining high level performance with increased data capacity, in order to support such applications as high speed continuous shooting for digital still cameras and high resolution video recording for digital camcorders, and high speed transfers of those data from/ to other media.
SDXC set to blow your mind next year, with 64GB capacity out of the gate
http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/12/sdxc-set-to-blow-your-mind-next-year-with-64gb-capacity-out-of/
Kevin Schader, director of communications for the SD Association and all-around great guy, just stated that SDXC cards should be hitting us as early as next year, with a 64GB capacity to begin with. The spec was released to member companies in April, and though Pretec has been parading around a 32GB card, we haven't had a release window of any sort before now. Naturally, it's going to be a slow build up to the theoretical limits of SDXC, with 52MB per second speeds and 64GB cards, instead of the 300MB per second, 2TB cards of our dreams, but we promise not to complain too much along the way.
I wonder how fast these cards have to get before they become a new standard?
Buck
http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/12/sdxc-set-to-blow-your-mind-next-year-with-64gb-capacity-out-of/
Kevin Schader, director of communications for the SD Association and all-around great guy, just stated that SDXC cards should be hitting us as early as next year, with a 64GB capacity to begin with. The spec was released to member companies in April, and though Pretec has been parading around a 32GB card, we haven't had a release window of any sort before now. Naturally, it's going to be a slow build up to the theoretical limits of SDXC, with 52MB per second speeds and 64GB cards, instead of the 300MB per second, 2TB cards of our dreams, but we promise not to complain too much along the way.
I wonder how fast these cards have to get before they become a new standard?
Buck
Barry_Green
Moderator
Well, it depends on what you consider to be the part that doesn't make sense?
Clearly you don't value what P2 does, and would be happy with a regular memory card system. Hence AVCHD -- for those who want cheap memory, how can it get any cheaper than SD?
P2 does many, many, many things that memory cards don't do. P2 is designed for ultimate reliability under all circumstances. A P2 card is not a "flash memory card." A P2 card is a COMPUTER with a lot of memory attached to it. That internal microcomputer in each card interprets and responds to something like 42 different commands, it has updateable firmware, and it performs a host of services including raiding the internal memory components to make them faster, performing write verification for *every byte* that gets stored on the card, closing out the file system every two seconds to prevent lost footage situations if the power goes out or a card is inadvertently ejected, and doing active wear leveling to spread out the rewrite cycles on the internal memory.
Furthermore, P2 was designed from the ground up to be an edit media. Apple users frequently don't "get" this, since Apple's workflow prevents you from doing it, but Avid and other editors support direct editing from the media for "the world's fastest workflow." Early P2 cards can sustain up to six simultaneous streams of HD, and the newest cards can sustain 11 streams. Try that on a hard disk RAID -- it's not possible! But the P2 card can do it.
P2 cards are also shock-proof, dust-proof, heat-proof, humidity-proof, and at least water-resistant.
Try ejecting a P2 card while it's being written to -- nothing bad happens. The file system is closed out every two seconds, and the footage is preserved. Now try the same thing with an SD card -- you might blow up the SD card and destroy all the footage on it. Try it with an SxS card -- the SxS card FAQ flat-out says that if you eject the card while it's being read from or written to, it could destroy the contents of the whole card. But not with P2, it's designed from the ground up to prevent *any* worry like that.
All of those features are why P2 has been gobbled up in the mission-critical fields, by the major broadcasters.
Again -- Red's CF card costs more than a P2 card does. And doesn't do anything that any other standard memory does.
If you don't need all the additional features, benefits, and protections that P2 offers, then go happily on your way with SD or SDXC or CompactFlash.
But you ask that if Panasonic had it to do over again, would they design it any differently? I doubt it. They have changed the entire company's product line and marketing profile to "reliability, when it counts." No way would they put compact flash cards in their premium products.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Speed is only one consideration.
For some, it's the only consideration. For others, it's one of many things to consider. Even if SDXC cards got to where they could transfer a petabyte per second, that still might not make them appropriate choices for many uses.
What do you know: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=1707792&postcount=18