New Blackmagic Camera July 16th?

Sttratos said:
It begs the question. What is the point of a 12K camera if the lens doesn't resolve 12K? And how much do lenses that resolve 12K cost and will buyers of a $10K camera be able to afford the lenses?

But for now it looks to be an unresolved product.
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Actually it comes with a copy of Resolve so there is a resolution of sorts - 12k of it.:D :D :D And if that doesn't resolve the issue for you , you can walk on by. - Someone had to say it.

But on a serious note. It would be nice if you stopped being so negative on such a momentous day.......I am the second person to ask.
 
ahalpert said:
Oh please, don't be the positivity police. Every issue he raised is a valid concern even if not everyone shares it. He's not trolling or insulting. I'm glad you're having such a momentous day
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Not the police at all - but we do have forum guidelines and the 8th P is there to stop chronic complainers. http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?98521-Forum-Guidelines-and-quot-The-Eight-P-s-quot .Not to stifle debate or discourse. Just check his last few posts. Complaining in my book. But he hasn't shot with it, held it, graded it and just about everything has a tone. I didn't say he was trolling. Just negative. I see a theme - if he can whinge - I can whinge about his whinging - fair? Anyway - it's not that important to me. We all have lives to live and perhaps this camera is not for him. It's actually not for me either. But perhaps he can wait to complain once it is in his hands. I am glad it is a momentous day., What's not to like. Some folks are impossible to please it seems.

RED, Sony and Canon are on notice and perhaps when a camera shoots 16k with 20 stops of dynamic range and at 1000 fps we will stop complaining.
 
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Fair enough.

A lot of people like myself would have preferred essentially an R5 body/price/AF with Blackmagic color and codecs and only 6K resolution and no overheating.

We're possible to please, but you can't please everyone at once.

But I don't take it as a personal slight from BM :)
 
Sttratos said:
It begs the question. What is the point of a 12K camera if the lens doesn't resolve 12K? And how much do lenses that resolve 12K cost and will buyers of a $10K camera be able to afford the lenses?
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By the way I used Zeiss Superemes, which are very nice and very expensive. You can get practically the same lens as a Zeiss Milvus though.
If it were me I'd get the Nikon F version so I get a real iris ring and ask for the EF mount version of the Nikon F which Duclos can do for a small extra fee.

These are very nice lenses.
https://www.ducloslenses.com/products/mills-zf-2-lens-set

Sttratos said:
What about focus? There are no 12K monitors.
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Good question. We found peaking works well, with occasional double tap to zoom and use of an occasional object known as a tape measure, operated by an experienced focus puller.



Sttratos said:
Once the shock of the 12K gimmick passes, at least for now, it's hard not to think a FX9 which is around the same price is probably a better bet for most shooters looking for cameras in that price range.
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Sure sounds like it would be for you.

Sttratos said:
I know it's a new sensor tech and all. But we know nothing at this point. For all we know, it will still perform badly in low light or higher ISO as the current cameras, the shutter might be bad at 12K etc.
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It won't be long before it's in the wild. Matter of weeks before you see the Komodo style tests I'm sure....
I'm not sure what "shutter" means though. Do you mean RS ? it's its about the same as a G1 at 12K, so 16 ms and 5 or 6ms at 8K (about the same as Alexa)

Sttratos said:
We shall see soon enough I guess. But for now it looks to be an unresolved product. Had it been FF, 6K or 8K, higher ISO with usable autofocus it would hit a sweet spot.
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Time....

JB
 
ahalpert said:
I understood that. But if the new camera has no prores...

View attachment 139736
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You 'canna do ProRes if you wants the 12K.....and the scaling only works on this sensor because it's recording as BRAW so.....

JB

(EDIT, and this by the way is the true reason cDNG no longer is being used. Same issues but like 10 times worse. Someone calculate uncompressed 12K DNG files for me ??)
 
John Brawley said:
You 'canna do ProRes if you wants the 12K.....and the scaling only works on this sensor because it's recording as BRAW so.....
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Yes that's what I inferred. But it has workflow implications. Just something to be aware of

Btw I think your " 'canna do" is a low-key Scotty reference or at least that's how I vocalized it :)
 
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ahalpert said:
Yes, for this crowd the marketing push might have been more successful in emphasizing the new sensor design (which I'm dying to hear more about) and mentioning 12K as an extra.

As far as color - we'll need to see stress tests and side-by-side comparisons

And no matter what, it won't be a smart business investment for me. But only because of the nature of my bread and butter
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This is probably the most niche camera they've ever made. Certainly the most expensive.

But they're laying out the groundwork for a whole new sensor design, and the volumes for any new sensor are usually slow initially, and expensive. As the yield gets better and volumes go up the price comes down...

Putting out a more expensive camera that's more niche makes sense. It's a bit more exclusive because of the cost, features and size. A natural impediment to 25 000 pre-orders...

They're STILL struggling to keep up making enough 6K and 4K pocket cameras. They aren't like the big boys who can crank out 5000 cameras a day.....

JB
 
Do we know the size/aspect ratio of the sensor yet? I assume it’s too much to hope that they’ve gone for 4-perf (to make anamorphic viable)?
 
ahalpert said:
Yes that's what I inferred. But it has workflow implications. Just something to be aware of
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Yeah, that's my point too. ProRes is no go because it can't do what Blackmagic RAW can do so what's the point ?

Of course that means it could change post pathways if you're in an ProRes centric eco system and don't like the various BRAW options for post...

JB
 
ahalpert said:
Fair enough.

A lot of people like myself would have preferred essentially an R5 body/price/AF with Blackmagic color and codecs and only 6K resolution and no overheating.

We're possible to please, but you can't please everyone at once.

But I don't take it as a personal slight from BM :)
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Yup me too. I wish for a smaller body too. I am sure the tech will trickle down. Anyway- we live in great times regardless
 
So for the sensor design, is it using a known color filter array (CFA) or is it something completely new? I'm guessing there would be a fourth sensor element that would work with RGB to enhance the color or dynamic range. Some sensors swap out the second green filter for one that is IR sensitive, clear, or even cyan, for instance.
 
Joshua Cadmium said:
So for the sensor design, is it using a known color filter array (CFA) or is it something completely new? I'm guessing there would be a fourth sensor element that would work with RGB to enhance the color or dynamic range. Some sensors swap out the second green filter for one that is IR sensitive, clear, or even cyan, for instance.
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Yes, you're on the right path....

It's not using a traditional bayer filter.

JB
 
Really interesting new camera - hats off to the team at BMD. I wish they used this “new” version of the UMP to implement better interface options. CFExpress makes a lot of sense with the data rates. Really want to see a HDMI 2.0 port. Glad they moved the USBC to the back and it looks like it has a locking screw hole? Assuming the main SDI is still 12G? Would like 4 XLR or 2 big, 2 mini. Waveform. Removable LCD screen like the Varicam/EVA1 or FS5/7. Would love a more compact design - shave off 1-3” off the back of the camera.
 
Joshua Cadmium said:
So for the sensor design, is it using a known color filter array (CFA) or is it something completely new? I'm guessing there would be a fourth sensor element that would work with RGB to enhance the color or dynamic range. Some sensors swap out the second green filter for one that is IR sensitive, clear, or even cyan, for instance.
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That may be why driftwood said it was based off this canon sensor which says:

"Specialized RGB-NIR Pixel Filter Array
By replacing one of the green filters on a standard color CMOS sensor with a Near Infra-Red (NIR) filter, image processing from this sensor allows for the separation of visible and NIR spectrums."
 
ahalpert said:
That may be why driftwood said it was based off this canon sensor which says:

"Specialized RGB-NIR Pixel Filter Array
By replacing one of the green filters on a standard color CMOS sensor with a Near Infra-Red (NIR) filter, image processing from this sensor allows for the separation of visible and NIR spectrums."
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1000% not that sensor. It's not based on anything. It's built from the ground up.

JB
 
I'm super exited about this camera - and more so for what it means down the line. Seeing the amount of dynamic range it is getting in such a small 2.2um pixel size is crazy. I'd love to see a cutdown version of this sensor in a Pocket Camera with a MFT sensor.

It is interesting to note that the Super16 crop sizes are not quite S16-sized.

Both the 6K and 4K Super 16 crops are a 15.28mm diameter, which is 0.73mm larger than S16.

However, that's a 17:9 ratio, so if you crop down to 16:9, it's 14.54mm, which is just a hair under full Super 16mm. So, all S16 lenses are going to cover if you do a further 16:9 crop.
 
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