New Blackmagic Camera July 16th?

CaptainHook said:
Hey Joshua, long time - hope you're well!

The 4K S16 crop is another "special" mode (like the 8/4K full FOV modes) that is actually the same field of view as the 6K S16 crop - but with the higher 220fps read out.
That's why they both have the "Super 16 crop" description - they are the same FOV.
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It's the Captain! I'm doing great - I hope things are going well for you, too.

That is so good to hear - I was worried there for a moment. I just updated my previous post. Is the rest of my math right - the full 17:9 6K and 4K Super 16 is about 15.28mm?
 
Joshua Cadmium said:
It's the Captain! I'm doing great - I hope things are going well for you, too.

That is so good to hear - I was worried there for a moment. I just updated my previous post. Is the rest of my math right - the full 17:9 6K and 4K Super 16 is about 15.28mm?
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I didn't check that part honestly - running on less than 3 hours sleep and fumes right now. Good to hear you're well. :)
 
Joshua Cadmium said:
I feel like I'm back at BMCuser - Brawley, Kholi, and CaptainHook all in the same thread. :)
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Agreed.

It's nice to see Blackmagic pushing the envelope with this new sensor. On the surface, the announcement of a 12k sensor sounded a little wacky. The addition of white photosites makes it that much more impressive. Nice to see we're moving beyond the Bayer arrangement to take advantage of new ways to maximize image capture coupled with tight BRAW/DaVinci integration.

It seems like the limiting factors are lensing + our own imaginations.
 
Kholi said:
I wake up like once a year for BMD releases then go back into hibernation hahah.
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Serious lol!

Kholi said:
Glad you're seeing the potential in the sensor! It's a bit of a mind bender when you get to see it in action.
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Yeah, this is really something special. I've been seeing such incremental sensor improvements over the years that it's nuts to see a leap like this. It's crazy how much heavy lifting each little pixel is doing and the color does not look compromised at all. And, obviously cameras are more than just their sensors, but the full image pipeline Blackmagic has here makes the $10k seems cheap to me in comparison.

The biggest potential for me is using smaller lenses but still getting high resolution and good dynamic range. Heck, 8k 17:9 on this camera is only a 20.37mm diameter - that's well within MFT. An 8K Pocket with this sensor and MFT would be huge.

This sensor does not seem like image quality is being sacrificed for resolution at all.
 
For the beta testers out there. You have to stay ISO 800 like the G2 or you get FPN and lines or can you get clean images above that? Like ISO 1600 or ISO 3200?

Any high light roll off tests to show?
 
Why oh WHY?! Are they using a USB-C cable to feed the SSD recorder?!

What was going through their minds? They're already routing the power to the recorder internally, why not data as well?! It's lunacy, I don't get it.

The non-bayer pattern is super interesting though. As is the 6k S16mm mode. Fully resolved 4k with S16mm lenses? This may just become THE doco camera to have. No more fussing around with oversized S35mm glass in order to get the kind of zoom range you need to work fast.
 
Ralph B said:
Many years ago Kodak experimented with an RGBW sensor. It was a simple 2x2 array with one photosite for each color + monochrome. They ultimately abandoned it because they couldn't get the colors saturated enough. I wonder what's different now?
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There is some background information about Kodak's earlier sensor development efforts with a combination RGB and clear pixels (which they call panchromatic), here:
https://web.archive.org/web/2007072...n.1000nerds.kodak.com/default.asp?item=624876

Kodak also filed for a patent for their sensor with this type of approach back in 2005:
https://patents.google.com/patent/US20070024879A1/en

I don't think work on RGBW sensor development ever really stopped, though, as various companies have worked on the approach over the years:


And between those companies, well, that covers a huge chunk of the image sensor market.

In theory, RGBW sensors provide greater image sensitivity because the clear pixel filters pass more light than a green filter would. This is part of the reason why the approach has been of particular interest in smaller smartphone sensors, especially as resolutions increase and pixel sizes decrease.

But the challenge is that the image processing and demosaicing becomes more complicated with RGBW sensors. As Kodak mentioned back in 2007, traditional Bayer pattern sensors have become so ubiquitous that there is lots of well developed hardware (and software) processing that is optimized for them. As a result, Bayer sensors deliver pretty good results with low hardware costs.

There's a decent overview of some of the challenges and benefits of RGBW sensors in this set of slides from Image Algorithmics (which specializes in image sensor processing):
http://image-sensors-world.blogspot.com/2020/07/image-algorithmics-on-rgbw-color-filter.html
 
Grug said:
Do we know the size/aspect ratio of the sensor yet? I assume it’s too much to hope that they’ve gone for 4-perf (to make anamorphic viable)?
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I don't visit much these days, but I crafted a very handy dandy tool called formatCompare on my site. I added the BMD UMP12K's main 12K formats this morning during the announcement so you can compare crop factors and such against various other cameras.

Here's a comparison in format size between the 12K and 4.6K models:
http://phfx.com/tools/formatCompare/formatCompare.cgi?makeA=Blackmagic+Design&modelA=Ursa+Mini+Pro+12K&formatA=12K+DCI&makeB=Blackmagic+Design&modelB=Ursa+Mini+Pro+4.6K&formatB=4.6K&focalLengths=


Also, if you're bored I added 12K up to 16K to my framesToDataRate tool some time ago mainly because for a few years I was alone out here doing super high resolution motion picture work stitching Monstros and other cameras together. Need to add some of the specific data rates available to BRAW now that it's hard wired, but the major steps are in there for the compression ratios.
 
soarprod said:
Really interesting new camera - hats off to the team at BMD. I wish they used this “new” version of the UMP to implement better interface options. CFExpress makes a lot of sense with the data rates. Really want to see a HDMI 2.0 port. Glad they moved the USBC to the back and it looks like it has a locking screw hole? Assuming the main SDI is still 12G? Would like 4 XLR or 2 big, 2 mini. Waveform. Removable LCD screen like the Varicam/EVA1 or FS5/7. Would love a more compact design - shave off 1-3” off the back of the camera.
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I also like the new USB-C placement, and it does have bolt on capabilities, it is mainly there for the new SSD-recorder which bolts onto the back and uses the USB-C instead of the old one taking SDI's.

Grug said:
Why oh WHY?! Are they using a USB-C cable to feed the SSD recorder?!

What was going through their minds? They're already routing the power to the recorder internally, why not data as well?! It's lunacy, I don't get it.
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I think it is a clear upgrade from the old "steal an SDI-output" for SSD. Probably a matter of cable management, processing/pipeline limitations. People would probably be more pissed if the SSD recorder worked without the USB-C but the USB-C would still be buggy/useless.
 
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Grug said:
Why oh WHY?! Are they using a USB-C cable to feed the SSD recorder?!

What was going through their minds? They're already routing the power to the recorder internally, why not data as well?! It's lunacy, I don't get it.
.
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Troubleshooting a data issue is much easier if you can change out a cable instead of sending it in.
 
DLD said:
So, what's the resolution equivalent to a Bayer pattern sensor?
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I'll take a wild guess - 40MP with regard to chroma and 80MP with regard to Luma? Maybe more than 80MP with regard to luma since you might get a more accurate luma reading from a clear filtered photo site than a color filtered one?
 
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High1ander said:
I think it is a clear upgrade from the old "steal an SDI-output" for SSD. Probably a matter of cable management, processing/pipeline limitations. People would probably be more pissed if the SSD recorder worked without the USB-C but the USB-C would still be buggy/useless.
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USB-C an upgrade from a BNC connector? In what possible way?

And why is it fed from any kind of external port in the first place, they have internal power connections for the recorder - the data connection should be internal as well (and therefore safe and protected from being knocked or disrupted).

I can't for the life of me understand why they've stuck with CFAST cards when they evidently aren't appropriate for the datarates people will be hitting with these cameras. The SSD module should simply have taken up the space that they occupy.
 
Grug said:
I can't for the life of me understand why they've stuck with CFAST cards when they evidently aren't appropriate for the datarates people
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Economy of scale for production? Especially since they'll sell way more G2s than 12Ks
 
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