C200: More C200 footage CVP

Oh, true...you don't think that's a regular LANC input? (I don't know)

Most people won't be relocating the side handle.
 
puredrifting said:
I still cannot believe that out of all of the C200 videos, reviews, articles, clips, not a SINGLE person has shown or commented on how we will be able to relocate the grip on the C200. As you know, the C200 uses an Arri rosette mount for the grip and an external cable. Nobody has commented on how long the cable with the stock grip is, if there are third party or Canon cable extensions available, how it fits into the socket on the C200, how the new little plastic strain relief/routing doo-hickey works, etc. Guess I'll just have to figure it out myself, whih is fine but a bit annoying that reviewers and early adopters are commenting so much about the low hanging fruit, how the codec choices leave the camera in a weird market segment (I disagree) and zilch on how we will actually be able to use the camera once it delivers. Guess it's up to me to tell reviewers how to do their job. Instead of harping on the exact same stuff that every other Vlogger is harping on, how about answering questions that are important and significant to users actually shooting paid work for clients with the camera?

1. Does using the touchscreen require as light touch as Canon's DSLRs? Many are concerned about shooting with the C200 with a long lens, like say the Canon 100-400 4.5-5.6 IS II, will it result in camera shake?
2. How do we relocate and use the C200 grip when mounted to an Arri rosette off camera?
3. How does the new audio section sound? Lot of grumbling that Canon stuck with 16 bit/48Khz. How are the AES/EBU inputs to use with a digital mixer?
4. Is the battery life the same when shooting CFast versus SD?
5. What are all of the color profiles available? We know C-Log 3 and that C-Log 2 is only available when shooting Cinema RAW Light? What about the baked-in looks, are they the same as the C300 MKII? What does WDR look like for clients who go straight from camera to web or air? Does it even have WDR?
6. Does the C200 exhibit the same issues with NR and blues that they C300 MKII does/did?
7. Is the EVF identical to the C300 or something newer/different?
8. Is there anything new with the audio routing, channels, etc.?
9. I'm still trying to figure out a mounting location for the touchscreen when using the camera on shoulder with a third party EVF. Or if we don't use the touchscreen for focus, does the DPAF have the same functions as the C300 MKII where you can use the joystick to locate the focus box?
10. Actual battery life with the Canon batteries? Any more or less than expected with shooting Cinema RAW Light? Does shooting RAW suck down more battery than .MP4s?
11. Do the damn buttons light up? Everyone has been asking, nobody will answer
12. Is the slow and fast motion mappable to the usual buttons? I know it maxes out at 1080p 120 but can you map a ramp down to lower frame rates through external buttons or can that only be dialed-in on the menus?
13. Why can't somebody who is a decent DP shoot some green screen 4K 24p .MP4 and key it? How about A/Bing the Cinema RAW Light with the same scene's proxy 2K file?
14. Why doesn't someone shoot some nicely lit interior scenes? So far, if I am not mistaken, all we have seen from any C200 test are daylight/available light exteriors? Can't be bothered? Too much work?
15. Many would be interested to see the HDMI 4K recorded out to an Atomos 10-bit 4k recorder? A lot of these tests are being sponsored by retailers like CVP, so have at it guys? I know you have a Ninja Assasin or Shogun Inferno laying around, hook it up, A/B with the .MP4 and Cinema RAW Light.

I can go on...
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Wedding shooters don't ask questions, why would they bother with all this when Canon have perfect solution for them.
There will be some frustrations at first, regarding difference in assignment of AF points, but they know that next reincarnation will solve that inconvenience and that they just have to wait.

Here is how real shooters will rig it:




Why bother with that silly C200 grip?
 
AndreeOnline said:
I make the same observation. But I think to myself "this isn't a good review of the camera". And you said "interesting how little they are allowed to show"
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Yes, that's my speculation that these C200 clips are this short because Canon doesn't want them longer. When they do, they'll have some crappy pre-release short about some girl meeting her maker (that was the Shane Hurlbut C300 video from about five years ago ... it actually looked real good, despite the odd story line).
 
DLD said:
Yes, that's my speculation that these C200 clips are this short because Canon doesn't want them longer.
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Well, as you know I don't buy into the cynicism or conspiracy theories! =)

Kai said they didn't have much time then or now. I just don't think he knows what to do with it—seriously.

Lots of smaller camera reviews lent themselves much better to him sneaking around and taking candid photos. Reviewing a Cinema EOS line camera needs something else. And the people watching are looking beyond the entertainment too. I think his nugget of wisdom at the end was "yeah, it's a good camera. Especially for YouTubers". Or something along those lines.
 
puredrifting said:
I still cannot believe that out of all of the C200 videos, reviews, articles, clips, not a SINGLE person has shown or commented on how we will be able to relocate the grip on the C200. As you know, the C200 uses an Arri rosette mount for the grip and an external cable. Nobody has commented on how long the cable with the stock grip is, if there are third party or Canon cable extensions available, how it fits into the socket on the C200, how the new little plastic strain relief/routing doo-hickey works, etc. Guess I'll just have to figure it out myself, whih is fine but a bit annoying that reviewers and early adopters are commenting so much about the low hanging fruit, how the codec choices leave the camera in a weird market segment (I disagree) and zilch on how we will actually be able to use the camera once it delivers. Guess it's up to me to tell reviewers how to do their job. Instead of harping on the exact same stuff that every other Vlogger is harping on, how about answering questions that are important and significant to users actually shooting paid work for clients with the camera?

1. Does using the touchscreen require as light touch as Canon's DSLRs? Many are concerned about shooting with the C200 with a long lens, like say the Canon 100-400 4.5-5.6 IS II, will it result in camera shake?
2. How do we relocate and use the C200 grip when mounted to an Arri rosette off camera?
3. How does the new audio section sound? Lot of grumbling that Canon stuck with 16 bit/48Khz. How are the AES/EBU inputs to use with a digital mixer?
4. Is the battery life the same when shooting CFast versus SD?
5. What are all of the color profiles available? We know C-Log 3 and that C-Log 2 is only available when shooting Cinema RAW Light? What about the baked-in looks, are they the same as the C300 MKII? What does WDR look like for clients who go straight from camera to web or air? Does it even have WDR?
6. Does the C200 exhibit the same issues with NR and blues that they C300 MKII does/did?
7. Is the EVF identical to the C300 or something newer/different?
8. Is there anything new with the audio routing, channels, etc.?
9. I'm still trying to figure out a mounting location for the touchscreen when using the camera on shoulder with a third party EVF. Or if we don't use the touchscreen for focus, does the DPAF have the same functions as the C300 MKII where you can use the joystick to locate the focus box?
10. Actual battery life with the Canon batteries? Any more or less than expected with shooting Cinema RAW Light? Does shooting RAW suck down more battery than .MP4s?
11. Do the damn buttons light up? Everyone has been asking, nobody will answer
12. Is the slow and fast motion mappable to the usual buttons? I know it maxes out at 1080p 120 but can you map a ramp down to lower frame rates through external buttons or can that only be dialed-in on the menus?
13. Why can't somebody who is a decent DP shoot some green screen 4K 24p .MP4 and key it? How about A/Bing the Cinema RAW Light with the same scene's proxy 2K file?
14. Why doesn't someone shoot some nicely lit interior scenes? So far, if I am not mistaken, all we have seen from any C200 test are daylight/available light exteriors? Can't be bothered? Too much work?
15. Many would be interested to see the HDMI 4K recorded out to an Atomos 10-bit 4k recorder? A lot of these tests are being sponsored by retailers like CVP, so have at it guys? I know you have a Ninja Assasin or Shogun Inferno laying around, hook it up, A/B with the .MP4 and Cinema RAW Light.

I can go on...
Click to expand...

I think a lot of the things you're asking for, which are all things I'd want to know too, are being overlooked because folks have only a day with the camera. Philip Bloom talks about his limited time with it in the beginning of his review.
 
I'll have my hands on the C200 next week, and I will post the answers to all of these questions or at least the ones I can discover in the time I have the camera. Too bad I hate being on-camera and have zero interest in becoming a YouTube personality. I used to write really long and thorough reviews and technical pieces for various websites but all of my clients for those have dried up as all anyone wants to do is watch Vloggers on YouTube. People generally don't like to read anymore, they like to watch mildly entertaining web videos instead. Except me, I would much rather read a well-written article than watch Vloggers.
 
Wow, a very average review from Kai. Where the hell is the footage?

@Norbro of course it looks like video - he's shooting an event in the middle of the day.

I'd say it's in Kai's best interest to continue his shtick in each video. I suspect it's a case of being slightly out of his hands too at this point - "do the funny street review thing". Similarly, with Judd or Pike - their slowed down, "nerd" vibe generates different audiences and they need to maintain their "personalities".

Really weird how people want to be the first to own the cameras to review them to keep up help their YT channel rather than, god forbid, using them for actual projects.

@PureD, long live the written article!
 
NorBro said:
You think it would look the same if you shot it with your UM4.6K?
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Probably not, but an uninspired test in broad daylight has everything working against it as far as moving away from "video" land. Still looks pretty good to me.

For the record, I don't own any cameras and have been renting. Using a pair of BM UMP's today and tomorrow, hopefully I can find the "looks good" filter somewhere in the menu :laugh:

C200 would be perfect for the shoot - client doesn't have delivery requirements, only one other person to help, insanely fast, small, and light, AF on dana dolly push ins etc.
 
One of the big features of this camera is the touch screen autofocus capabilities, so making a LCD screen that isnt bright enough to be viewed in direct sunlight is really ridiculous. Sure I can use the evf with face detection but then why give me a touchscreen. As an event shooter this is really, really annoying. These are the kind of practical things that are more important than 10bit codecs to some of us.
 
puredrifting said:
We are talking about two different cables here. You are talking about the audio video cables from the body of the C300 MKII to the monitor/XLR unti and I am talking about the new external cable on the C200 handgrip that goes from the handgrip to a new receptacle on the C200 body. The C300 MKII has a totally different handgrip/cable setup that requires the Wooden Camera or Zacuto grip relocater while the C200 has a new set up that has an integrated external cable while the handgrip mounts to a standard Arri rosette. It looks like a normal 3.5mm cable but I have not seen macro shots to be able to verify exactly what kind of connection it uses. Nobody has mentioned or commented in any review or from Canon exactly how this new setup works when you want to relocate the grip to a handgrip extension arm for shoulder mounted shooting or to a rear handle for tripod, studio configuration. I can't be the only one in the world who plans on mounting the C200 to a Zacuto VCT Pro baseplate, extension arm for the handgrip, adding a Gratical Eye EVF to the camera? But it appears that nobody else has thought about how this will work yet?
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Is it not the same connection as the other C-series cameras? I would imagine it would be. If so, then you could just get the Shape extension cable (I think Ebay also has some no name brands) and you'd be good to go, right?
 
AndreeOnline said:
Well, as you know I don't buy into the cynicism or conspiracy theories! =)

Kai said they didn't have much time then or now.
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Fahnon said:
... Philip Bloom talks about his limited time with it in the beginning of his review.
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So, two unrelated bloggers state the same claim. As if they were told what to say. My inner Sherlock smells a rat.

puredrifting said:
People generally don't like to read anymore ...
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I was going to produce a lengthy response to the above but I don't to write anymore either.
 
Eric Coughlin said:
Is it not the same connection as the other C-series cameras? I would imagine it would be. If so, then you could just get the Shape extension cable (I think Ebay also has some no name brands) and you'd be good to go, right?
Click to expand...

I'll bring my C300 grip next week and find out for sure. I have no idea what it is, Canon has been curiously closed mouth about the whole new way the grip connects, other than to show it is cabled differently than the existing cameras.
 
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NorBro said:
I think there is some regulation to what you can post online...this guy said he wasn't allowed to post anything… Maybe it depends on who's testing it, but I would assume Canon would currently like to review everything that's going up.
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I've never seen the shadow of Canon when looking at pre-production gear. You mostly talk to the retailer that gets early hands on. Some of those people ARE cautious, but in my experience that is 100% due to being insecure and staying safe before sorry.

DLD said:
So, two unrelated bloggers state the same claim. As if they were told what to say.
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Oh, I'd agree with this one. Nobody gets a lot of time with the camera. There are actually not that many C200s out there. I also hear that the keep moving around and you can't just take one for a week—in most cases. But this is different to me than Canon saying you can't show what you shoot.

Anyway... not important.
 
Danilo Del Tufo said:
What do you think as alternative FS7 Mark II? Is a good camera? I've watched this channel : "https://vimeo.com/revisitar", they're a plenty of videos about FS7 that looks stunning but I dunno what parameters he used and what lenses he mounted on FS7.
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I think the original FS7 mkI offers the greatest value in Camera tech by a country mile right now.

As a former FS7 owner for the last 2 years who was a jobbing video producer for high end corporates (and low end ones too) I couldn't recommend the FS7 more, it's simply the best value large sensor camera available and will be so until it's replaced by Sony.

I look at the C200 and I think it's a camera of two halves, neither of which would've been suitable for the type of production we were shooting. An 8bit camera is so last year and shooting 'RAW' with 15 mins per 128GB card would be an inconvenience that would be too great to be worthwhile. We created a ton of data per project and more than doubling (if not quadrupling it) for marginal gains simply would not have been worth it to us nor the client. 4k 10 bit XAVC-I edits like a hot knife through butter on laptops and I could edit 4 streams with LUTs and CC without dropping frames from a cheap SSD so post production just runs smoothly and no need to transcode or work with proxies or optimised codecs. Just import, edit, export, job done.

In 2-3 years when Moore's law has worked its magic on CFast size and price, SSD sizes and a couple more processor revisions when shooting RAW Light will be as inconsequential as shooting XAVC-I is today. Personally I would wait those 2-3 years and wait for Canon to at least add a second card slot for RAW Light recording unless you have any real desires to feed CFast cards all day.
 
mproust14 said:
One of the big features of this camera is the touch screen autofocus capabilities, so making a LCD screen that isnt bright enough to be viewed in direct sunlight is really ridiculous. Sure I can use the evf with face detection but then why give me a touchscreen. As an event shooter this is really, really annoying. These are the kind of practical things that are more important than 10bit codecs to some of us.
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LCD Setup -> Backlight -> Bright
 
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