Keto diet

ahalpert said:
A lot of celebrities (for example) after starting to gain weight then seem to lose weight via semi-starvation diets paired with excessive exercise
Click to expand...
Which makes me ask the semi off topic question- how do actors gain and lose so much weight for roles? And what are the consequences?
And could anybody (DLD=> Hugh Jackman?) quickly put on the major muscle actors do, given working with the same trainer and diet?

And is it true NorBro shoots yachts and parties on his R5 in the Hamptons? Shirtless?!? :shocked:
("That's what I hear")
 
People with money have teams around them who assist them with all of this stuff...personal trainers, chefs, doctors, anabolics/other drugs.

So many of us would be able to put on the same amount of muscle if our lives were dedicated to doing it. A major incentive for them is millions of dollars (or even hundreds of thousands), and they have the time to do it.

Normal people don't get the money or have the time, so the majority of the world's results speak for themselves.

However, with that said --> genes are still #1 and you can only go so far based on your own makeup. Obviously, a skinny 5'6" man weighing 145lbs will never look like a prime 6"7 300lb Hulk Hogan.
 
NorBro said:
ha...yeah, there's also the 0.1% of really thick guys with bellies (not all of them) who are incredibly strong on another level. They do very low reps 1-2-3 with extreme weight (plus all of the carrying and pulling, etc).
Click to expand...

Maxing out at 1-3 reps is where you start tearing ligaments and the muscles. The way I felt was that I'd move up in weights if I can get to 18 reps and I tried to never go below 10. I quit lifting when I got to the 50 lbs single hand and I couldn't lift it more than thrice. But, hey, I walked for about 2 1/2 hours today/tonight. That's somefeenk.

groveChuck said:
Which makes me ask the semi off topic question- how do actors gain and lose so much weight for roles? And what are the consequences? And could anybody (DLD=> Hugh Jackman?) quickly put on the major muscle actors do, given working with the same trainer and diet? ...
Click to expand...

Not discounting andro or creatine, it helps to be in a good shape to begin with. Most star performers are in a reasonable shape. Then they get private trainers/gyms and work to get into a shape that a project might require. When the cameras start rolling, they'll likely to take the same stuff that bodybuilders take before competitions to get that chiseled look (adding Hydroxycut or something similar).

It ought to be noted that, unless you're Russell Crow, a top shape body can last years with only minor maintenance.

PS. Of course, one can get bigger faster with steroids, much like the East European athletes did for about forty years. Those muscles usually come off after the cycle is over.
 
DLD said:
Maxing out at 1-3 reps is where you start tearing ligaments and the muscles. The way I felt was that I'd move up in weights if I can get to 18 reps and I tried to never go below 10. I quit lifting when I got to the 50 lbs single hand and I couldn't lift it more than thrice. But, hey, I walked for about 2 1/2 hours today/tonight. That's somefeenk.
Click to expand...

The 1-3 is for the strongman/woman competitors, not regular people.

The magic number for building muscle is between 6-12, depending on the body part. Variety is best per usual...but 18 reps is more on the side of conditioning than muscle building.

It's great because you're exercising, but just too light to do anything at that point after you get your initial gains.
 
In general, 5x5 regimens are universally loved in BB.

IMO, they are best to begin at an intermediate level, but you can always start light with them though.

Consistent lifters will do it once a year for a few months among their other programs...so important to switch it up.
 
I have a friend who is on it and has lost weight. He also runs about 10 miles a day ;)... Personally, I feel like most trendy or extreme diets are not long term sustainable. My personal philosophy is eat (mostly) plant based foods, in moderation, and limit your sugar and salt intake. And of course exercise...
 
Did about 100 private and small group reformer Pilates sessions about twelve years ago. For me it was really fun and worked well. Lots of ways to stay in shape with money , time and desire. Was ready to start back just as craziness hit. I still use my ladder barrel fairly regularly to stretch.
 
scorsesefan said:
I have a friend who is on it and has lost weight. He also runs about 10 miles a day ;)... Personally, I feel like most trendy or extreme diets are not long term sustainable. My personal philosophy is eat (mostly) plant based foods, in moderation, and limit your sugar and salt intake. And of course exercise...
Click to expand...


This isn't "trendy," this is stuff backed-up by science and advised by physicians.
 
ahalpert said:
Brings me to another point- I don't think your weight quantity matters at all. All that matters is a holistic assessment of your health and how attractive your wife finds you. I dont even use a scale. I can tell when I'm gaining weight and I can see how my skin looks, etc. A lot of celebrities (for example) after starting to gain weight then seem to lose weight via semi-starvation diets paired with excessive exercise. And it just makes them look older because all the attractive fat and muscle in their face and smiles disappears and generally they take on a beleaguered appearance because they're running themselves into the ground
Click to expand...
That and plastic surgery. I was on cameo the other day. I saw musician Mark McGrath, and his face looked weird. Sure enough google his name + plastic surgery...
 
NorBro said:
... The magic number for building muscle is between 6-12, depending on the body part. Variety is best per usual...but 18 reps is more on the side of conditioning than muscle building...
Click to expand...
That's what it was - condition it before you can up the weights and down the reps. Obviously, there's a diminishing effect along the way. When you start from nothing or when you reach an "intermediate" and go from 13 lbs to 18 (or something in that ballpark), you really notice the difference after a couple of months. I recall meeting a friend, whom I hadn't seen in about two years, and his jaw was about a foot from completely dropping onto the floor. I was never known for my physique. But my biceps went from 12" to 14" around that time (yes, I measured ... just for kicks) and visually it was a big difference too. I think I ended up with around 16". Going higher would have required a lot more reps and greater weights and, in my opinion, I was approaching my frame limits.

I have a friend in his mid-40's, who spent his 20's and 30's bulking up. Then he almost completely reversed his regimen and is now running half marathons daily. He's still huge but his weight is closer to 230 than to 250.
 
I’m a proponent of functional fitness. You work out so that you can comfortably engage in Activities of Daily Living. Working out to have a chiseled body, more muscular physique and so on are all legit goals, but for me, it’s all about health and function.

A lot of cardio. For resistance training it’s useful to be familiar with a few concepts and the trajectory of aging for this tissue. You can have bigger muscles and you can have strength, but that’s not the same thing as power. Power is dynamic, often trained for with plyo routines, and it’s absolutely possible to have strength but no power. As we age, the danger is sarcopenia. Muscle tissue diminishes in size and you grow weaker and your ADL score drops. How do we prevent sarcopenia? The traditional answer is resistance exericise, but there are many paradoxes and limitations. For example, it’s been shown that for a lot of old muscle, you can retain size (and so not have classic sarcopenia), but lose strength - in other words, your muscle of the same size has much less strength. And as I mentioned above, in addition to strength you should have power - for example, if you’re rising from a chair, power is useful, if you’re throwing a suitcase into an overhead compartment, power is useful.

You want to exercise to retain muscosceletal integrity. Bones, joints, tendons. Random “exercises” are not all created equal. You can sustain injuries, yes, but it’s beyond that. There is quite a lot of overuse long term damage to joints and tendons. If you keep stressing your joints with poor form repetitive exercises, you could be setting yourself up for long term damage - and I’ve seen a lot of bad exercising over the years in various gyms. Rest and recovery is also important - another underappreciated factor.

You can absolutely overdo it with weightlifting and damage your joints. You can overdo cardio too - some excessive runners have poor CV health, with extensive calcification of arteries, afib and enlarged heart. Running is good for the knees, but some people have poor form and the results are not good. Meanwhile, I’ve seen a lot cases of destroyed knees from excessively heavy squats. Interesting sidenote - the famous neurologist Oliver Sachs was a huge workout fanatic on the Venice Muscle Beach outdoor gym back in the 60’s. He was a heavy lifter and epic squatter, who worked out with Muscle Beach legends and held his own. He related in an essay, how decades later he was lying in the hospital due to damage to his knees from all those workouts back in the 60’s and how he was visited by another heavy squat workout legend from that time, who came in from an adjoining room, where he too was getting ready for knee replacement surgery, and they were talking and recalling their workouts and he said “what fools we were”... all that excessive weight destroyed their bodies instead of setting them up for a healthy old age. Beware. Not any and all exercise is “good” for you in the long run.

And of course, we are all individuals and respond differently to exercise. So, just like with diet, the best exercise is the one tailored to your particular physiology. And random recommendations are not going to be optimal - as with diet, there’s a lot of bad advice out there in additon to advice that may not be applicable to the individual you (or your goals, for that matter). So whatever routine you read about here, take it all with a grain of salt and keep in mind, that the subject of exercise is also complicated, just as is diet. There’s no “one fits all” and there’s a ton of wrongheaded advice and unsupported assertions.
 
Well, maybe a bit off-topics, and maybe on topics:
I've tried and followed various diets and alternative health regimes for the past 50 years, or so. On the past few years my digestion condition worsened gradually and consistently, plus other health issues. No treatment or diet showed any improvement. Until about 6 months ago I came across 2 books and started following their recommendations.

Now, at over 77 years old, I'm healthier than ever.

Both books were published on 2020, and both books are based on both comprehensive scientific studies and research and practical results. Most of the scientific studies and research on which those books are based were done on the last 20 years, some were done as far back as middle 20th century.

Both books deal with the way our diet impacts our health condition; where 'diet' means what we eat and what we don't eat, including our lifestyle. It's amazing to see that most disease are either caused, or are being greatly influenced by out diet.

The first book is 'Total Gut Balance' by Dr. Mahmoud Ghannoum:
https://smile.amazon.com/Total-Gut-...33&sprefix=Total+Gut+Balance'+,aps,944&sr=8-1
Or (with free shipping worldwide, may cost less, especially for people outside the US):
https://www.bookdepository.com/Tota...683682?ref=grid-view&qid=1607865541160&sr=1-1

The second book is 'Fiber Fueled' by Dr. Will Bulsiewicz, MD, MSCI:
https://smile.amazon.com/Fiber-Fuel...07864993&sprefix='Fiber+Fueled,aps,292&sr=8-1
Or (with free shipping worldwide, may cost less, especially for people outside the US):
https://www.bookdepository.com/Fiber-Fueled/9780593084564

Both books contain recipes.
The basic findings and the overall conclusions in the two books are either similar, close, or identical. Some of the recommendations are close, or similar, while others are different. I find that the two books are complementary, I follow a mixture of the recommendations of both.
 
I haven't read those books but I'll echo the significance of gut health in terms of gut bacteria. Your bacterial balance is massively important. And I think that basically you want to have a diverse array of bacteria. If one species has an overgrowth and dominates, it can cause major problems for you.

Apparently, there are more protein-coding genes in bacterial DNA than human DNA in the human body because there are so many bacteria in the gut. For this reason, scientists have classified humans as "macro-organisms" for a decade or so because we couldn't survive without our gut flora.

A lot of fermented foods help nourish a varied gut biome. But also just raw organic apples and carrots.

100m bacteria a day keep the doctor away, apple research suggests
Study finds organic apples have more diverse and balanced bacterial community
Click to expand...
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th...-keep-the-doctor-away-apple-research-suggests
 
In case anyone was wondering why I brought up aging as relevant to exercise, I offer this: YLD - Years Lived with Disability - a measure of the burden of disease.

Here is an interesting graph of the prevalence of disease categories by age, the number of years lived with disability (YLD) - which disease categories you are likely to suffer the longest with:

Leading Category of Disease/Disorders

Note which categories are most burdensome the longest - at #1 are Neuropsychiatric Disorders at 33.2% (broken into Mental and Behavioral Disorders & Neurological Disorders), and then right at #2 are Musculosceletal Disorders at 25.4% - both categories by far the biggest, because the next category at #3 is Other Non-communicable Diseases at only 9% and then #4 you get Diabetes, Urogenital, Blood and Endocrine Diseases at 8.4%. As you can see, #1 and right behind it #2 are runaway the lengthiest time lost to lliving with the burden of disease.

This is why it makes sense to start exercising even if you are only in your 20’s because musculosceletal disorders can be with you for a very, very long time, making your life miserable - bad backs, knees, hips, various muscles and so on - all that can be addressed with a proper exercise regimen. And don’t neglect the health and functional aspect - it’s OK to exercise for whatever reason, appearance and so on, as long as it’s not done at the cost of your health (which is why avoiding steroids is probably a good idea).

Anyhow you can also see how musculosceletal diseases are right behind mental health challenges since an earlier age than all other categories of disease - another handy graph:

U.S. Leading Disease/Disorder Categories by Age

So as you can see, talking about age in the context of exercise is relevant at ANY age you may find yourself at.
 
ahalpert said:
I haven't read those books but I'll echo the significance of gut health in terms of gut bacteria. Your bacterial balance is massively important. And I think that basically you want to have a diverse array of bacteria. If one species has an overgrowth and dominates, it can cause major problems for you.
Click to expand...
That is correct, though it isn't the whole picture.
Even after about 50 years of following various alternative medicine regimes, reading those 2 books I was surprised to learn how many diseases are either caused or being greatly influenced by the digestion process, which is greatly influenced by microbiome (the gut flora, including the mycobiome - the gut bacteria and fungi population). That includes also proper weigh. It turns out that proper and balanced diet has greater effect on ones' weigh than workouts, even heavy ones.

Again, on top of proper diet, the recommendations on those books are concerned with lifestyle (physical exercises and environment considerations, though not necessarily heavy workouts).

Over the years I encountered and exercised many theories, including diet theories, like the Keto, Mediterranean, and others. It took me age and health issues to realize on myself what really works efficiently. Not all theories and recommendations concerning gut flora balance are working effectively, or working at all.

ahalpert said:
Apparently, there are more protein-coding genes in bacterial DNA than human DNA in the human body because there are so many bacteria in the gut. For this reason, scientists have classified humans as "macro-organisms" for a decade or so because we couldn't survive without our gut flora.
Click to expand...
There are more bacteria and fungi in the guts than cells in the human body. The gut flora is responsible for most of the digestion process.

ahalpert said:
A lot of fermented foods help nourish a varied gut biome. But also just raw organic apples and carrots.
Click to expand...
Those are but few of the recommendations shared by both books.
As for fermented foods, like sauerkraut and other pickles, mostly home-made ones are recommended. Most of the canned ones are sterilized, which kills the beneficial bacteria and fungi in them.
As for vegetables and fruits, apples and carrots are far from filling the entire recommended list.

ahalpert said:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th...-keep-the-doctor-away-apple-research-suggests
Click to expand...
This article may serve as an appetizer for reading the books I mentioned.
It is far, far away from a complete, balanced and healthy diet, including lifestyle changes.

BTW, the diets recommended on those two books can be adopted to vegans, vegetarians and all-eaters.
 
OldCorpse said:
So as you can see, talking about age in the context of exercise is relevant at ANY age you may find yourself at.
Click to expand...
Not all exercises are the same and no exercise can serve as viable and effective substitute to proper and balanced diet (and some other lifestyle recommendations).

It's described and detailed in the books I mentioned.
 
Joshua Cadmium said:
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/10/health/obesity-weight-loss-drug-semaglutide.html

This looks like a game-changer - a drug that is a synthetic version of the hormone that makes you feel full. It's not going to be cheap, though, but one can imagine something like this being easily and cheaply available in the coming years.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a recipe for malnutrition. I'm generally opposed to monkeying with the body's natural signaling

I think what you eat matters more than how much and the entire goal of feeling full is rooted in misconception.

For example, I've been having large vegetable omelettes lately, about every 3 days. About 6 eggs per serving, plus whatever vegetables I fancy at the time. And the next day, I feel very little hunger and at a low intensity. (And I've been losing weight and shrinking my waistline since I started with them)

But yesterday I had sourdough, and I don't regularly eat bread these days. I just kept eating and eating it. and later in the day, I felt an intense hunger.

Aside from protein/calories, your body is like a chemistry set and will guide you to nutritional balance. But there are some foods that have drug-like properties and can make you hungrier than if you had eaten nothing
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top