Eric Coughlin
Veteran
Anyone tried keto? Thoughts on it?
Keto diet
- Thread starter Eric Coughlin
- Start date
NorBro
Major Contributor
Have to be wired a certain way to keep it up...usually inspired by something (job, person, jealousy).
Most people fail, feel sick doing it. Should get medical advice before attempting it.
A 20-30g banana could be almost your entire carb limit for the day so borderline impossible to sustain for 99%.
Some try something less extreme like just limiting carbs to 150-200 grams per day, which could be a serving or two of a side at lunch or dinner.
Most people fail, feel sick doing it. Should get medical advice before attempting it.
A 20-30g banana could be almost your entire carb limit for the day so borderline impossible to sustain for 99%.
Some try something less extreme like just limiting carbs to 150-200 grams per day, which could be a serving or two of a side at lunch or dinner.
filmguy123
Veteran
I know people who have done it and had success. It can be efficient like many forms of dieting. I still personally think the best way to do diet and exercise is sticking to an intentional but well rounded diet that provides nutrients the body needs in all metrics.
Understanding all calories are not created equal is key. Focusing on lean proteins 40% of calorie make up, slow carbs as 40% of make up, and healthy (monounsaturated fats) as 20% of makeup is a good starting point. Massively reducing sugar intake is very helpful. Weight and resistance training is a good baseline foundation to focus on over cardio/running, because building muscle increases metabolism and passive calories burned. HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training) is very effective in combination with weight training, i.e., 7 minute workout. If performed correctly, HIIT can be more effective for metabolism than much longer runs.
Something like a diet focusing more on Chicken breast, wild salmon, eggs, whole grains, legumes, low sugar low fat greek yogurt (definitely an acquired taste), vegetables/spinach, olive oil, etc. + HIIT 5-6x/week + Weight Training 2-3x/week -- Personally before trying a less natural diet like Keto, I would start with more traditional/natural things like this.
Understanding all calories are not created equal is key. Focusing on lean proteins 40% of calorie make up, slow carbs as 40% of make up, and healthy (monounsaturated fats) as 20% of makeup is a good starting point. Massively reducing sugar intake is very helpful. Weight and resistance training is a good baseline foundation to focus on over cardio/running, because building muscle increases metabolism and passive calories burned. HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training) is very effective in combination with weight training, i.e., 7 minute workout. If performed correctly, HIIT can be more effective for metabolism than much longer runs.
Something like a diet focusing more on Chicken breast, wild salmon, eggs, whole grains, legumes, low sugar low fat greek yogurt (definitely an acquired taste), vegetables/spinach, olive oil, etc. + HIIT 5-6x/week + Weight Training 2-3x/week -- Personally before trying a less natural diet like Keto, I would start with more traditional/natural things like this.
Within the last few months I’ve found spot on bread with one net carb that tastes like bread ( aunt millies). Lupin pasta is starting to show up and is very good (5 net carbs) but pricey. A lot of foods that drive folks crazy on keto are now available with effort and money ( some of it is dirty keto).
No. But do limit carbs, not counting fruits and vegetables, such a breads, cakes and so on. Rice and beans are OK in proper doses. Fats are no good for a weight loss, so consume proper cuts of beef, chicken, fish and so on.
And establish an exercise regimen. Swimming is great. For men, light-to-medium weightlifting is good too. At the very least, walk.
PS And cut out sugar and salt. If you can. Ditto for alcohol.
And establish an exercise regimen. Swimming is great. For men, light-to-medium weightlifting is good too. At the very least, walk.
PS And cut out sugar and salt. If you can. Ditto for alcohol.
Liam Hall
Veteran
Keto is natural or do you think humans have always consumed vast amounts of sugar, carbohydrates and processed foods?
Eric Coughlin
Veteran
Hasn't bread been around since practically forever? I know it wasn't sliced until someone invented that.
filmguy123
Veteran
If you read my post that 1 dimensional I don't know what to tell you.
Liam Hall
Veteran
Today's American diet is pretty much 70 years old.
Liam Hall
Veteran
It was primarily this bit:
A low carb high fat diet is natural and there are plenty of studies that support its effectiveness.
To answer Eric, aiming for 30-50 carbs a day, avoiding sugar (including most fruits) and avoiding starchy foods and processed foods is quite easy if you're cooking for yourself - not so easy to do if you are out-and-about. Going full Keto (lesss than 20 carbs a day) is tough.
Eric Coughlin
Veteran
You'd a asked if humans have always been eating lots of carbs and considering bread which has carbs in it has been in the human diet for thousands of years I think the answer would be yes, humans have been eating carbs for a long time. Sugar and processed foods, maybe not. Not sure when sugar became a diet regular, and processed foods it seems over just the past century. As to whether carbs are good for people or not, is more up for debate, but it seems to me that it has been around for thousands of years.
BrianMurphy
Veteran
I lost 37 pounds on a Keto diet in 2019-2020. Made a huge difference in the stress on my body as I age doing what most of us do here. Running around with a rig and and extra weight was not only dangerous but affected the outcome.
That being said, it is not easy. If you travel, and are with clients and colleagues it is downright tough. Especially in to be honest in some areas of the USA, where carbs are the majority of what is available in restos and hotels. Working in Georgia and Tennessee was especially difficult, because I LOVE everything on the menu and green salad and a protein was all I would order and eat. Not to mention going for beers with the crew after a days shoot, where Pasta would out of the question, the steak without the fries just didn't seem right....well you get the point.
But, once you get things under control and manage your diet like you manage a good shoot or post production you will be fine. But be prepared for the kidding from the crew, weird looks from the servers (if they ever open restaurants at least up here again) and above all before you do it, do the research and consult your physician.
Just my two cents...
That being said, it is not easy. If you travel, and are with clients and colleagues it is downright tough. Especially in to be honest in some areas of the USA, where carbs are the majority of what is available in restos and hotels. Working in Georgia and Tennessee was especially difficult, because I LOVE everything on the menu and green salad and a protein was all I would order and eat. Not to mention going for beers with the crew after a days shoot, where Pasta would out of the question, the steak without the fries just didn't seem right....well you get the point.
But, once you get things under control and manage your diet like you manage a good shoot or post production you will be fine. But be prepared for the kidding from the crew, weird looks from the servers (if they ever open restaurants at least up here again) and above all before you do it, do the research and consult your physician.
Just my two cents...
Liam Hall
Veteran
Bread has been around for 10,000 years, humans 200,000 years and our ancestors over six million years. But yeah, I take your point
The problem today is people eat way too many carbs and consume way too much sugar. They are the cause of so many diseases. Fat and salt have long been blamed but they are actually good for you on a low carb diet (except trans fat, which is pretty much banned anyway).
Batutta
Major Contributor
I did hard core Keto one summer and combined with jogging lost 35 pounds in six weeks. Keep in mind I'm 6'5" and started at 245lbs so thirty five pounds for me is different than for a normal sized person. I've gained about half of that back along with some muscle. I do lazy keto to maintain my weight, avoiding sugary and starchy foods (bread, pasta, rice, potatoes). I feel much better when I'm on it. More energy and focus. Also improved my asthma. It's hard at first but after a week or so food cravings go away completely. When on the hardcore keto I did a lot of beef stews and tuna salad. Also hamburger patties and roasted chicken along with veggies likes broccoli, cauliflower and asparagus topped with melted cheese. Most supermarkets sell roasted chickens for cheap so you can pick one up and it will last you a couple days. Instant Pots are amazing and idiot proof pressure cookers. A lot keto meals can be made easy with them. Just throw all the ingredients in a pot, set it and forget it.
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combatentropy
Veteran
DISCLAIMER: I have never tried the keto diet.
Let us back up a bit, shall we? On any given day, you have 4 choices:
For many of us, simply not doing choice 1 is a moral triumph. And so doing choice 2 is not effortless. And if you are not constantly getting worse and worse, I think that is worthy of some praise, especially if you have any reason at all to salve emotional pain (which, if you're living on this planet, has a probability of 99.99999999999999999%).
Okay, so all I'm saying is, before you proceed to choice 4, have you at least tried choice 3 for more than a few days? Have you gone for some of the low-hanging fruit (no pun intended):
1.
Cut out all soft drinks. Period. Forever. 7 days a week. 30 days a month (okay maybe one cheat day a month). That stuff is sky-high in sugar. One little 12-ounce can has 40 grams of sugar. Imagine stirring 10 teaspoons of sugar into a glass of water and drinking it. That is one little can. I'm not even talking about those little bottles at the convenience store. What are they, 20 ounces? You do the math.
I have found that a lot of what I miss about soda was the carbonation. The outsize craving for sweetness went away fairly effortlessly for me. So I then became addicted to carbonated water with essence of lemon or whatever (Perrier, Topo Chico, and then the bargain-basement stuff at my grocery store was fine). Then I realized I was spending $100 a month on carbonated water, and I recently cut that mostly out too.
Then I realized what I most loved about carbonated water was that it was chilled. So now, ice water, after it has been sitting for a couple minutes, is almost as satisfying as my sparkling-water habit, which was almost as satisfying as my soft-drink habit.
Anyway, if you drank two cans of Coke a day, that's like 300 calories. To lose weight you want to aim for 1-2 pounds a week (unless you want to gain it all back) which is a calorie deficit of 3,500-7,000 calories a week, which is 500-1,000 calories a day, and by cutting out soft drinks you may be halfway there to losing 1 pound a week. (Hey, that's pretty good considering that most Americans who think they are staying the same weight are, in fact, insidiously gaining 10 pounds a year. It's not effortless!)
2.
Cut out useless carbs (donuts, cake, etc.). This is harder and makes less of a difference than cutting out soft drinks. But it is, I think, still a prerequisite before you consider something more drastic, like Keto.
It could also involve cutting down even on what you think are "normal" carbs, like two slices of bread per sandwich. You might try eating just half a sandwich, made from one slice of bread. Then check how you feel, after 20 minutes.
3.
Observe the 20-minute rule. It takes something like 20 minutes for your body to tell your brain that you have had enough to eat for now. This delay has some advantage when food is scarce and you need to fill up for a few days. It is decidedly less advantageous when food is cheap and ubiquitious and often of low nutritional density.
After cutting down even on what your grandmother thought was just fine (like a slice of bread) you probably are still around 100-200 carbs a day. You are nowhere near the threshold for Keto. And already you will feel like some kind of health nut.
Keep going.
4.
Exchange high-carb ingredients for low-carb ingredients, like a snack of a handful of pecans instead of a bowl of chips, or even a bowl of popcorn is better than a bowl of chips.
There are websites for these so-called "food swaps", full of ideas, many of which feel not too bad.
5.
Cut out anything but natural ingredients. If it has MSG, corn syrup, or just lots of ingredients that the average child does not recognize, don't eat it.
This might involve going to hippie stores like Whole Foods where all the weirdos hang out and spend too much on food. At any rate, it probably requires making more food at home.
6.
Eat out less (like it is a special occasion, not even every week). In another thread, you said you already do this, Eric. Most of my tips are for anyone who's listening.
You can't control the ingredients at restaurants. You won't even know what they all are. American restaurants famously have ballooned their portion sizes, so that you are literally served a plate that is enough for 2 or even 3 people. Restaurants are continuously tempted by their own customers to put too much sugar and salt in their food and to make larger-than-necessary portions.
At home you have full control over the ingredients and portion sizes (to the degree that you have control over yourself).
At this point you are at the limit of the willpower of many average citizens, and if you have reached this point for the first time, then you are probably exhausted and are vulnerable to throw it all away in a freak-out visit to Cinnabon. So I would encourage you to hang out at this point for a while (a year?) to see how it fits you.
You might check out:
Let us back up a bit, shall we? On any given day, you have 4 choices:
- Eat worse than you are (more cake, more donuts, more soda, etc.)
- Eat the same as you are (and you know where that has gotten you)
- Do something "moderate" and "reasonable"
- Do one of the "extreme" diets (I would lump Keto into this category)
For many of us, simply not doing choice 1 is a moral triumph. And so doing choice 2 is not effortless. And if you are not constantly getting worse and worse, I think that is worthy of some praise, especially if you have any reason at all to salve emotional pain (which, if you're living on this planet, has a probability of 99.99999999999999999%).
Okay, so all I'm saying is, before you proceed to choice 4, have you at least tried choice 3 for more than a few days? Have you gone for some of the low-hanging fruit (no pun intended):
1.
Cut out all soft drinks. Period. Forever. 7 days a week. 30 days a month (okay maybe one cheat day a month). That stuff is sky-high in sugar. One little 12-ounce can has 40 grams of sugar. Imagine stirring 10 teaspoons of sugar into a glass of water and drinking it. That is one little can. I'm not even talking about those little bottles at the convenience store. What are they, 20 ounces? You do the math.
I have found that a lot of what I miss about soda was the carbonation. The outsize craving for sweetness went away fairly effortlessly for me. So I then became addicted to carbonated water with essence of lemon or whatever (Perrier, Topo Chico, and then the bargain-basement stuff at my grocery store was fine). Then I realized I was spending $100 a month on carbonated water, and I recently cut that mostly out too.
Then I realized what I most loved about carbonated water was that it was chilled. So now, ice water, after it has been sitting for a couple minutes, is almost as satisfying as my sparkling-water habit, which was almost as satisfying as my soft-drink habit.
Anyway, if you drank two cans of Coke a day, that's like 300 calories. To lose weight you want to aim for 1-2 pounds a week (unless you want to gain it all back) which is a calorie deficit of 3,500-7,000 calories a week, which is 500-1,000 calories a day, and by cutting out soft drinks you may be halfway there to losing 1 pound a week. (Hey, that's pretty good considering that most Americans who think they are staying the same weight are, in fact, insidiously gaining 10 pounds a year. It's not effortless!)
2.
Cut out useless carbs (donuts, cake, etc.). This is harder and makes less of a difference than cutting out soft drinks. But it is, I think, still a prerequisite before you consider something more drastic, like Keto.
It could also involve cutting down even on what you think are "normal" carbs, like two slices of bread per sandwich. You might try eating just half a sandwich, made from one slice of bread. Then check how you feel, after 20 minutes.
3.
Observe the 20-minute rule. It takes something like 20 minutes for your body to tell your brain that you have had enough to eat for now. This delay has some advantage when food is scarce and you need to fill up for a few days. It is decidedly less advantageous when food is cheap and ubiquitious and often of low nutritional density.
After cutting down even on what your grandmother thought was just fine (like a slice of bread) you probably are still around 100-200 carbs a day. You are nowhere near the threshold for Keto. And already you will feel like some kind of health nut.
Keep going.
4.
Exchange high-carb ingredients for low-carb ingredients, like a snack of a handful of pecans instead of a bowl of chips, or even a bowl of popcorn is better than a bowl of chips.
There are websites for these so-called "food swaps", full of ideas, many of which feel not too bad.
5.
Cut out anything but natural ingredients. If it has MSG, corn syrup, or just lots of ingredients that the average child does not recognize, don't eat it.
This might involve going to hippie stores like Whole Foods where all the weirdos hang out and spend too much on food. At any rate, it probably requires making more food at home.
6.
Eat out less (like it is a special occasion, not even every week). In another thread, you said you already do this, Eric. Most of my tips are for anyone who's listening.
You can't control the ingredients at restaurants. You won't even know what they all are. American restaurants famously have ballooned their portion sizes, so that you are literally served a plate that is enough for 2 or even 3 people. Restaurants are continuously tempted by their own customers to put too much sugar and salt in their food and to make larger-than-necessary portions.
At home you have full control over the ingredients and portion sizes (to the degree that you have control over yourself).
At this point you are at the limit of the willpower of many average citizens, and if you have reached this point for the first time, then you are probably exhausted and are vulnerable to throw it all away in a freak-out visit to Cinnabon. So I would encourage you to hang out at this point for a while (a year?) to see how it fits you.
You might check out:
- The Mediterranean Diet, which is an actual diet that you can sustain for a lifetime
- The Chipotle Diet, which is a temporary diet that I at least could imagine doing for a few days, and which some people have reported weight loss
- walking a couple miles a day (work up to it, though)
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As a physician ... I initially considered Keto to be a scam ... really it forces your body into a "ketotic state" ... similar to
starvation ... as we are not able to generate calories easily from protein and fat ... so the body begins to auto-digest ...
going catabolic to sustain energy ...
But many of my Cardiologist colleagues found that a good subset of their patients with high lipid and cholesterol numbers
actually improved .... not all but mainly those at risk for CV disease.
However ... not a great long-term strategy ...
As has been suggested ... low sugar, complex carbs, balanced diet ... really limiting overall calories from fat ( Fat - 8kcal Carb/Protein - 4Kcal )
is more sustainable. Mediterranean diet with high Olive oil content is doable over the long term with increased good HDLs and decreased bad LDLs.
The ratio between Good/Bad HDL defines cardiovascular risk and long term health.
Best practice is one of moderation ... pick a day of the week to hang loose but overall keep to a moderate balance ... it is not the big things that
in the end kill us ... it is all the small things that accumulate to our detriment.
And while moderate exercise is protective ... it pales in the face of the metabolic challenges of diet, genetics and stress.
I have always maintained that you should choose your parents carefully ... those from stellar cardiovascular profiles do well,
those from marginal cardiovascular profiles less well. Rigorous maintenance of decent lifestyle choices can surmount much of
the risk.
Bottom line ... BP control, Statins, and avoidance of high blood sugar are the keys.
Take all the above with a grain of salt ... life is short ... no one gets out of here alive ... and living into your late 90 - 100's
may be an exercise of isolation, pain and regression. Not my choice ... take me early while I still have a bit of autonomy and
self awareness.
Just sayin' ... but I am in Texas ... not a place for sissies ...
starvation ... as we are not able to generate calories easily from protein and fat ... so the body begins to auto-digest ...
going catabolic to sustain energy ...
But many of my Cardiologist colleagues found that a good subset of their patients with high lipid and cholesterol numbers
actually improved .... not all but mainly those at risk for CV disease.
However ... not a great long-term strategy ...
As has been suggested ... low sugar, complex carbs, balanced diet ... really limiting overall calories from fat ( Fat - 8kcal Carb/Protein - 4Kcal )
is more sustainable. Mediterranean diet with high Olive oil content is doable over the long term with increased good HDLs and decreased bad LDLs.
The ratio between Good/Bad HDL defines cardiovascular risk and long term health.
Best practice is one of moderation ... pick a day of the week to hang loose but overall keep to a moderate balance ... it is not the big things that
in the end kill us ... it is all the small things that accumulate to our detriment.
And while moderate exercise is protective ... it pales in the face of the metabolic challenges of diet, genetics and stress.
I have always maintained that you should choose your parents carefully ... those from stellar cardiovascular profiles do well,
those from marginal cardiovascular profiles less well. Rigorous maintenance of decent lifestyle choices can surmount much of
the risk.
Bottom line ... BP control, Statins, and avoidance of high blood sugar are the keys.
Take all the above with a grain of salt ... life is short ... no one gets out of here alive ... and living into your late 90 - 100's
may be an exercise of isolation, pain and regression. Not my choice ... take me early while I still have a bit of autonomy and
self awareness.
Just sayin' ... but I am in Texas ... not a place for sissies ...
filmguy123
Veteran
Sure Liam, probably not the most precise use of the word natural. I am not at all suggesting processed foods are natural or fat is unnatural. I only mean it is natural for the body to crave a well balanced diet between carbs, proteins, and fat.
A generally recommended macronutrient breakdown might be 50/25/25 (that is, 50% carbs, 25% protein, 25% fat). Moderate shifts to this, say 40/40/20 as I had gave as an example, maintain a normal (natural?) range that allows for a well rounded diet.
Keto is more of a 5/20/75 macronutrient split (carbs/protein/fat). Some people do up to 90% fat as far as I know. That's a much more extreme change (unnatural?) that causes the body to go into a natural state of ketosis (natural as in, it is the bodies natural response to a lack of carbs). It's not a moderate approach. I understand how effective it can be. Sometimes people seek out diets such as keto/atkins which push the envelope before simply taking a more centrist approach that is usually highly effective: 40/40/20, cutting way back on sugars, focusing on whole grains, legumes, lean cuts of protein, vegetables, etc. etc. to reach that 40/40/20 ratio. Higher protein also helps with targeting muscle growth, which boosts passive metabolism and changes body composition - both highly desirable.
YMMV, everyone's body/goals/lifestyles are different.
A generally recommended macronutrient breakdown might be 50/25/25 (that is, 50% carbs, 25% protein, 25% fat). Moderate shifts to this, say 40/40/20 as I had gave as an example, maintain a normal (natural?) range that allows for a well rounded diet.
Keto is more of a 5/20/75 macronutrient split (carbs/protein/fat). Some people do up to 90% fat as far as I know. That's a much more extreme change (unnatural?) that causes the body to go into a natural state of ketosis (natural as in, it is the bodies natural response to a lack of carbs). It's not a moderate approach. I understand how effective it can be. Sometimes people seek out diets such as keto/atkins which push the envelope before simply taking a more centrist approach that is usually highly effective: 40/40/20, cutting way back on sugars, focusing on whole grains, legumes, lean cuts of protein, vegetables, etc. etc. to reach that 40/40/20 ratio. Higher protein also helps with targeting muscle growth, which boosts passive metabolism and changes body composition - both highly desirable.
YMMV, everyone's body/goals/lifestyles are different.
NorBro
Major Contributor
Yeah, I think it's beneficial to separate the body goals from the health/heart goals.
As far as weight-loss is concerned (or weight-gain for sports which can be as difficult but is less common), intake restrictions vary vastly from one to the next. A 300-pounder who barely moves and a 175-pounder looking to lose a few around the waist will undoubtedly have adverse outlines in their journeys.
I've read so much about the major focus on foods and diets for weight-loss, but after about 20 years of experience at this point, I don't think there is anything better than the tried-and-true combination of exercise and a caloric deficit.
Genetics are what they are and some will just never be able to look like they want to, unfortunately - but IMO it was always very difficult for me to gain weight if I was constantly lifting heavy items and running while simply not eating a lot (some consider this intermittent fasting).
I eat salt and sugar every day and I don't gain weight, but that's just me and that doesn't mean the damage isn't being done elsewhere [which hopefully I hope is being offset a little with cardiovascular training].
As far as weight-loss is concerned (or weight-gain for sports which can be as difficult but is less common), intake restrictions vary vastly from one to the next. A 300-pounder who barely moves and a 175-pounder looking to lose a few around the waist will undoubtedly have adverse outlines in their journeys.
I've read so much about the major focus on foods and diets for weight-loss, but after about 20 years of experience at this point, I don't think there is anything better than the tried-and-true combination of exercise and a caloric deficit.
Genetics are what they are and some will just never be able to look like they want to, unfortunately - but IMO it was always very difficult for me to gain weight if I was constantly lifting heavy items and running while simply not eating a lot (some consider this intermittent fasting).
I eat salt and sugar every day and I don't gain weight, but that's just me and that doesn't mean the damage isn't being done elsewhere [which hopefully I hope is being offset a little with cardiovascular training].
Batutta
Major Contributor
While this is true, Keto works for a lot of people, and me, because it's easy to get into caloric defecit and still eat food that makes you feel full. Nobody wants to eat salads all day. On Keto you can eat a 12 ounce steak and veggies and feel pretty satiated.
NorBro
Major Contributor
For sure as far as the deficit...and just to be clear I think Keto is probably #1 as far as weight-loss results if you can do it, but I would be in the observation group that would feel very, very unsatiated eating a steak with only vegetables.
I required the mashed potatoes or there was no desire to have the meal which led me to skipping it and discovering I'm more wired for intermittent fasting.
I required the mashed potatoes or there was no desire to have the meal which led me to skipping it and discovering I'm more wired for intermittent fasting.