JuicedLink is going to show off new "Little DARling" Distributed Audio Recorder

HVXguy said:
Yes I need to get one of those DR-60Dmkii - that looks ideal for what I do. I had a BlackMagic camera for awhile and entertained getting a pre-amp from JL but I sold the BM and went to something else.
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Tascam rates their unit at 120 EIN, which is ok, but not fantastic. It still won't have the low noise levels of an old Sony PCM D50, a Tascam DR-680 or a solid mixing unit from Sound Devices, but for $200 who can complain really? Just hope they gave the unit stepless mixing pots unlike their previous version of the unit. That was a deal breaker.
 
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They do claim stepless pots, we'll see when it comes out. I have the old 60D and the pots are - to my use scenario - a non-issue. I never find myself changing them on the fly and then using that recording. I mean I set them ahead of time and go with that, if I were to change levels in the middle of the recording, then you are changing the background noise at the same time and how useful is that going to be in a recording? Complete non-issue (to me, for others YMMV). As to noise levels - I already can't tell any noise, so I guess I don't care. Of course, I use it for recording dialogue, so maybe if someone is recording the sounds of a snail walking in a silent chamber, you might perceive noise. But for ordinary recording, I've never heard anyone complain about noise. Of course, YMMV. I have a different wish for the new 60Dmkii - I hope they beefed it up, because so many people had problems with their XLR cables getting stuck, and general fragility of the units with stuff randomly breaking and falling off.
 
Thanks for sharing the DR-10c.

I'm actually a little more excited about the DR-10x which is designed for dynamic handheld mics (although I'm thinking any shotgun mic with a AA battery will work too, like a Rode NTG-2 or AudioTechnica 835)
http://tascam.com/product/dr-10x/

The DR-10c is really going to give Robert a run for his money. I think a lot would come down to quality on which sounds better. And / or how well the buttons are designed to prevent accidental pressing.
 
zijital said:
The DR-10c is really going to give Robert a run for his money. I think a lot would come down to quality on which sounds better. And / or how well the buttons are designed to prevent accidental pressing.
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Note:

Frankly, I think the JL DARling is in trouble. What's the competitive advantage? Let's wait and see how it shakes out once all the units are out, but just pricing-wise it will be a challenge for JL - from what I understand the tascams will be priced $200 and below, while JL is planning on something above $200 (last it was discussed). Given the comparable functions I just don't see where JL's market segment is. Had JL come out at the beginning of the year at NAB, instead of only demoing prototypes, they'd have had the market to themselves for 6 months now, and be established. The delay was fatal - and it's still not out, and they've missed their own deadline. The tascams will be out in November. We'll see. Personally, I'm pulling for JL to do well, because as consumers we all benefit from more choices and competition, but JL dropped the ball a little bit here.
 
No hard facts, but from the Tascam DR-10c recorders now not being offered in the US, it seems like Zaxcom might have some legal differences with Juiced Link & Tascam.

Possible on why Juiced Link hasn't made any noise about this since NAB.
 
Did you guys get the email from juiced link?


He basically said that JL Darling is getting more put into it. Some welcome changes that may make it more appealing than the tascam.
 
James0b57 said:
Did you guys get the email from juiced link?


He basically said that JL Darling is getting more put into it. Some welcome changes that may make it more appealing than the tascam.
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I still might like the Tascam just for the Lectro connector.

Bottom line, if the rumors / speculation about Zaxcom / Tascom patent infringement lawsuit is true, I hope it doesn't apply to Juiced Link too.


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And for the people not on the e-mail, Juiced link just updated their blog (I had checked it earlier today).

http://www.juicedlink.com/blogs/news

Pretty much still making progress, no price or ship date, but the big news is there will be a version with wireless control.

You can't monitor the DARlings wirelessly, but you can start / stop recording, as well as send a slate / tone to any / all of your little DARlings in range.
 
zijital said:
I still might like the Tascam just for the Lectro connector.

Bottom line, if the rumors / speculation about Zaxcom / Tascom patent infringement lawsuit is true, I hope it doesn't apply to Juiced Link too.


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And for the people not on the e-mail, Juiced link just updated their blog (I had checked it earlier today).

http://www.juicedlink.com/blogs/news

Pretty much still making progress, no price or ship date, but the big news is there will be a version with wireless control.

You can't monitor the DARlings wirelessly, but you can start / stop recording, as well as send a slate / tone to any / all of your little DARlings in range.
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Yeah, the wireless monitoring would kind of defeat the design of a remote recorder for me. The wireless signal would waste precious battery and add expense that would make me just go the old wireless lab route.

These things should be kept cheap and have great battery life, as an alternate way collect audio. Like a GoPro (except GoPro has horrid battery life)

We would all like added features, but then we get back into expensive territory. The idea should be basic. Adding to that just takes it into a whole different direction.
 
zijital said:
[...]You can't monitor the DARlings wirelessly, but you can start / stop recording, as well as send a slate / tone to any / all of your little DARlings in range.
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That's not far off from what Tascam already offers in the DR-22WL and DR-44WL, although obviously those are considerably bigger - but there is also the intriguing possibility that's been floated that there may be a firmware update coming soon from Tascam, where you can monitor the recording through Wi-Fi... so far all you can do is listen to the playback of the recording through Wi-Fi. The size is a problem - or is it? Obviously, smaller is better, but perhaps in a pinch, actors/performers may be OK with concealing something this big on their body.

And I have the exact opposite view from James0b57 "Yeah, the wireless monitoring would kind of defeat the design of a remote recorder for me. The wireless signal would waste precious battery and add expense that would make me just go the old wireless lab route." I think it would be tremendous and actually make me NOT want to use wireless lavs... since I'd have all the advantages of wired (quality of recording, no interference etc.), and none of the disadvantages (lack of wireless monitoring and wireless control). Ideally I want to record from a wired lav, and monitor wirelessly in real time. Battery life is not an issue depending on the size of the unit. But again, this might come down to "what is too big". People have been using Zoom H1 for ages - and that's not exactly small. Sure, smaller is better, but c'mon, if you are shooting your no-budget whatever, the actors are gonna roll with a larger recorder just as well, it's not the end of the world, it's not like you are shooting with Robert Redford here. And while it may add expense to the JL, the Tascams (22WL and 44WL) are already way cheaper than probably whatever JL is gonna come up with. So I say, go Tascam - if they can swing wireless monitoring - which I believe is just a matter of time - then that will be a huge breakthrough for recording with lavs.
 
OldCorpse said:
And I have the exact opposite view from James0b57 "Yeah, the wireless monitoring would kind of defeat the design of a remote recorder for me. The wireless signal would waste precious battery and add expense that would make me just go the old wireless lab route." I think it would be tremendous and actually make me NOT want to use wireless lavs... since I'd have all the advantages of wired (quality of recording, no interference etc.), and none of the disadvantages (lack of wireless monitoring and wireless control). Ideally I want to record from a wired lav, and monitor wirelessly in real time. Battery life is not an issue depending on the size of the unit. But again, this might come down to "what is too big". People have been using Zoom H1 for ages - and that's not exactly small. Sure, smaller is better, but c'mon, if you are shooting your no-budget whatever, the actors are gonna roll with a larger recorder just as well, it's not the end of the world, it's not like you are shooting with Robert Redford here. And while it may add expense to the JL, the Tascams (22WL and 44WL) are already way cheaper than probably whatever JL is gonna come up with. So I say, go Tascam - if they can swing wireless monitoring - which I believe is just a matter of time - then that will be a huge breakthrough for recording with lavs.
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Then you misunderstand what i was saying.


I meant that there is a place for very small low cost remote recorders. What you are saying is cool too, but a different product and a different price and a different workflow. I'd love to have a small cheap recorder for those odd extra placements. Again, a sound guy is not something we should be trying to get rid of.
 
The Tascam DR-22WL has Wi-Fi for remote monitoring, isn't very large (of course if you took the mic out it would be smaller), and is only $149, so I don't see why adding wireless monitoring to a smaller unit would need to cost a lot more. Regarding size, the Tascam DR-07 is about the same size as the new Tascam DR-22WL so apparently adding Wi-Fi didn't affect the size of the unit (unless they shrunk other internal parts to make room for it).

For my work Plural Eyes works in most cases and I can manually sync without much trouble when I need to, so having a wireless slate feature doesn't have much interest to me. If I did more narrative film type work it might be more useful, but for live events and corporate run n gun work that I do it'd slow me down too much on set to be worrying about setting slates and takes such that I'd probably never use it. So I guess it really only would appeal to small budget scripted shoots. Remote monitoring (particularly with the ability to adjust gain remotely) and I'd probably be willing to spend an extra $100 or so for that.

What I'd really like is a small wireless unit that has internal recording in addition to being wireless. The Zaxcom is the only unit that has this but costs $4000 for a set. I understand Zaxcom, like Lectrosonics, is high end, but I don't really need high end. I don't understand why Sennheiser, Sony, Shure, Tascam, juicedLink, etc., can't simply do this at a $500-$1000 price point. Surely Zaxcomm can't patent the idea of putting an internal recorder in a wireless transmitter.
 
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If it is cheap, then yes, of course an option to wirelessly monitor would be great. But we are talking about $99 vs $150 vs $200 vs $250 vs $500 and whatever other hypothetical budgets we are will to pay for our dream tool, that may or may not be what someone else wants or is willing to pay for.


for the sake of argument, a wireless operating system is not only inherently more expensive, but also inherently more work for the already busy camera operator.


so, we add a few bucks for the wireless. Cool. Now how do we receive that signal? How do we isolate a track to monitor?


So, a cheap wireless option would be welcome, but having a cheaper smaller longer battery lasting alternative that i don't have to worry or think about???? Priceless.
 
The Tascam DR-22WL already answers these questions. With added Wi-Fi and other new features it only costs $30 more than the previous model, the DR-07, and weighs slightly less, is still cheaper than the DR-10CS which was priced at $200, and wireless is sent to your smart phone and controlled with an App so you don't need to buy a separate receiver/controller. Sure, monitoring and controlling audio as a one man band isn't always the best option, but just because you have the capability doesn't mean you have to use it. You can simply not use the Wi-Fi App when you don't have time to, but when you do, it could be quite a useful feature.

I own pocket recorders and don't own wireless (though I often use wireless while working with others). Most of my work is live events where I often don't have time to or wouldn't want to be bothered with monitoring the talent's mic, but sometimes I'll be doing a slower paced corporate gig where I find myself either constantly bothering the talent to check their recorder to make sure it's still going and/or hoping that it is still going. Of course it is up to each individual's situation as to whether it's worth the extra $30 or however much extra Wi-Fi would cost.

Seeing how Wi-FI made it into the upgrades of the DR-07 and DR-40 I find it likely that eventually it will make its way into the DR-10CS upgrade as well, and eventually the older models without Wi-Fi would be discontinued. Just consider how small some phones are and they have Wi-Fi, so while I'm not technologically knowledgeable of how much space it takes to add Wi-Fi to an electronic device my guess is that it is not much.

And again, a unit like the Zaxcom which has wireless and an internal recorder can be used the same exact way as the LittleDarling or DR-10CS, simply not using the wireless and only recording internally when you're a one man band with no time for monitoring and dealing with a receiver, and using wireless just when needed. For weddings I've often double miced a groom with both a wireless mic and a pocket recorder to get the best of both worlds, but the Zaxcom solution gives the best of both worlds in one box instead of two for the talent to wear. The other big advantage is being able to monitor and record sync sound to your camera while having a backup internal recording on the device which obviously won't get any interference; this to me seems to be the safest bet for ensuring you don't miss getting your audio. I'd rather pay $800 for such a device which has both wireless and internal than pay $600 + $200 for two separate devices. Of course there is still a market for cheaper non-wireless recorders since decent wireless systems tend to start at around $500 compared to pocket recorders at $100-$250 and a theoretical non-Zaxcom hybrid system would cost more.
 
Eric Coughlin said:
The Tascam DR-22WL already answers these questions. With added Wi-Fi and other new features it only costs $30 more than the previous model, the DR-07, and weighs slightly less, is still cheaper than the DR-10CS which was priced at $200, and wireless is sent to your smart phone and controlled with an App so you don't need to buy a separate receiver/controller. Sure, monitoring and controlling audio as a one man band isn't always the best option, but just because you have the capability doesn't mean you have to use it. You can simply not use the Wi-Fi App when you don't have time to, but when you do, it could be quite a useful feature.

I own pocket recorders and don't own wireless (though I often use wireless while working with others). Most of my work is live events where I often don't have time to or wouldn't want to be bothered with monitoring the talent's mic, but sometimes I'll be doing a slower paced corporate gig where I find myself either constantly bothering the talent to check their recorder to make sure it's still going and/or hoping that it is still going. Of course it is up to each individual's situation as to whether it's worth the extra $30 or however much extra Wi-Fi would cost.

Seeing how Wi-FI made it into the upgrades of the DR-07 and DR-40 I find it likely that eventually it will make its way into the DR-10CS upgrade as well, and eventually the older models without Wi-Fi would be discontinued. Just consider how small some phones are and they have Wi-Fi, so while I'm not technologically knowledgeable of how much space it takes to add Wi-Fi to an electronic device my guess is that it is not much.

And again, a unit like the Zaxcom which has wireless and an internal recorder can be used the same exact way as the LittleDarling or DR-10CS, simply not using the wireless and only recording internally when you're a one man band with no time for monitoring and dealing with a receiver, and using wireless just when needed. For weddings I've often double miced a groom with both a wireless mic and a pocket recorder to get the best of both worlds, but the Zaxcom solution gives the best of both worlds in one box instead of two for the talent to wear. The other big advantage is being able to monitor and record sync sound to your camera while having a backup internal recording on the device which obviously won't get any interference; this to me seems to be the safest bet for ensuring you don't miss getting your audio. I'd rather pay $800 for such a device which has both wireless and internal than pay $600 + $200 for two separate devices. Of course there is still a market for cheaper non-wireless recorders since decent wireless systems tend to start at around $500 compared to pocket recorders at $100-$250 and a theoretical non-Zaxcom hybrid system would cost more.
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I think what you need is a good thing. Definitely a place for it. But would be nice to also have something very cheap and basic too. These are all great tools. I am talking about a GoPro of the audio world, you are talking about an A7s with wireless video via wifi. They are different, not one over the other. Yes, the price/weight/size of wifi may not add much, in which case, options are nice. But in general, there is always a penalty to options.
 
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Cool thing is, we got two things we all wanted: 12hr battery life, and only one AA battery. Haha, now i want two AA battery power for 20+hr life.
 
Here is the link:
http://juicedlink.com/collections/audio-recorders

$200 / $265 - which is wonderfully priced.

I really wish it had a TA5 connector so I could use my Lectro mics, so I'm going to look into adapters to see if these units will still power the lav's I own already.

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I wonder how many reality shows will pick these up (or even wedding videographers). Each is a lot cheaper than a wireless beltpack & the 12 hr life is a lot longer than you'll get with a wireless mic, so while it isn't 20+hr, you're still covered for the entire day.
 
zijital said:
Here is the link:
http://juicedlink.com/collections/audio-recorders

$200 / $265 - which is wonderfully priced.

I really wish it had a TA5 connector so I could use my Lectro mics, so I'm going to look into adapters to see if these units will still power the lav's I own already.

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I wonder how many reality shows will pick these up (or even wedding videographers). Each is a lot cheaper than a wireless beltpack & the 12 hr life is a lot longer than you'll get with a wireless mic, so while it isn't 20+hr, you're still covered for the entire day.
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Yeah, I am really excited about the 12hrs. I was just joking about the 20hrs. It would be nice, but I was just kidding. It is awesome that he got 12hrs out of one AA. best of both worlds.

I think I will grab one of these. It is inline with the projects I have in mind this year. I will also let my wedding friends know.
 
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