If Nikon fails...
- Thread starter Uwe Lansing
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Uwe Lansing
Veteran
Now it´s clear that nikon isn´t fit to hold a candle to canon + panasonic. I assume that this won´t change the next 1 or 2 years - maybe even way longer. So until now i hadn´t considered a complete change of system - only a stop-gap measure with the gh1 at the most until next year.
Everything has changed now. Canon + pana will be the winner in this promising market, no doubt anymore. The way things look nikon has accepted it and will focus their business almost exclusively on the photo department.
So the question for me is: canon or pana? The canon 60d is expected to be announced maybe in august or september:
http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/Canon_60D.html
Everything has changed now. Canon + pana will be the winner in this promising market, no doubt anymore. The way things look nikon has accepted it and will focus their business almost exclusively on the photo department.
So the question for me is: canon or pana? The canon 60d is expected to be announced maybe in august or september:
http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/Canon_60D.html
manual control? Or rather panasonic? Some stuff to ponder about...
slimjimmed
Well-known member
The Nikon roadmap that was leaked has been accurate thus far to a tee.
It says that the d700x will have 1080p h264 and Quicktime MOV, amongst other major improvements, and that is being unveiled on October 15th.
It also says that all of these same video specs are coming to the d400 in the 2nd quarter.
Patience, people. It'll happen and you will wet yourself when it does.
It seems like all people do is sit around and wait for unannounced equipment and get excited over rumours. I bet you it'll end up being 30fps just like 5dmk
slimjimmed
Well-known member
Waiting patiently is a good thing. It's not like I am sitting on my hands and not working, lol. That's what using the equipment I own, and renting, is about.
I think the time to strike for Nikon will be the d400 (or d700x if you can afford it).
I would be afraid to buy a d300s because of its poor resale value once the d400 comes along. They will be miles apart in quality.
I think the time to strike for Nikon will be the d400 (or d700x if you can afford it).
I would be afraid to buy a d300s because of its poor resale value once the d400 comes along. They will be miles apart in quality.
John Caballero
Veteran
Haven't you noticed that Nikon doesn't do 30p?
I missed up a little, I was referencing the Canon 60D
John Caballero
Veteran
I am perplexed as to why Canon can't release 24p in their cams. It is weird to say the least.
Uwe Lansing
Veteran
Patience? For what? Another year of frustration with the d90 video mode? And after 1 year nikon offers the same shi*, or only slightly improved? No. I was waiting for something better since the end of last year (first rumors of an upcoming d400 in spring). And what have we got now? What did they do for us regarding the video mode?
Patience can be a good thing, but not until the "judgement day". Now, for me personally, its time to make a decision. Others might have a different opinion - that´s ok. I´m not afraid of making a wrong choice. It´s only money and everything can be resold pretty quick......
James H.
Active member
A few bucks for a video chip on the mainboard pays huge dividends in pushing mainstream DSLRs to consumers. But it makes little sense for a matured optics company with a global tribe of loyal photographers to try to compete with the likes of Panasonic and Sony in the video sector.
The most I can hope Nikon will do is pioneer just enough functionality to provoke the mighty camcorder giants to reach a little further in fear of being pwn'd by a lowly dSLR.
I'm a huge Nikon fan, but I'm rooting for their influence, not their products.
Then if I'm wrong - hell yeah, baby, give me Varicam function & quality in a $900 dSLR!
:grin:
The most I can hope Nikon will do is pioneer just enough functionality to provoke the mighty camcorder giants to reach a little further in fear of being pwn'd by a lowly dSLR.
I'm a huge Nikon fan, but I'm rooting for their influence, not their products.
Then if I'm wrong - hell yeah, baby, give me Varicam function & quality in a $900 dSLR!
:grin:
Jester2138
Well-known member
Well I see what you're saying, James, but then again...
They already put video mode in. They had to tell it what codec, compression, framerate, etc. to use. It shouldn't be that hard just to alter those things slightly for less compression and such. The only real hard bit I see would be adding manual control and sound. And they've already done sound.
These cameras are sooo close... But so far...
They already put video mode in. They had to tell it what codec, compression, framerate, etc. to use. It shouldn't be that hard just to alter those things slightly for less compression and such. The only real hard bit I see would be adding manual control and sound. And they've already done sound.
These cameras are sooo close... But so far...
surely you mean the other way around?!? haven't done much software development yourself, have you?
i'm sure this is the legacy of the live view function the video mode is based on. canon use 30 fps live view, nikon 24. they can quite easily add video recording to any camera that has live view, but to change the frame rate they have to change the live view function itself. i suspect this is why manual control isn't common either, they would have to at least communicate with the live view system, if not even change it, not just tap into whatever stream it happens to output.
/matt
RyanBellaCine
Well-known member
Nikon hasn't yet adopted the open standard DNG format for RAW yet either. ( Neither has Canon ). But to their credit, I believe it's because cam maker's software settings like D-lighting couldn't yet make use of the DNG standards. So there might be more behind the scenes than people realize. Nikon does outsource their sensors from Sony at least most of the time. Perhaps the holdup lies in what they can buy for chips while keeping costs down. None of us here really know the whole story.
I still don't understand why folks are so surprised that a still camera company with no previous "pro video" R&D department of the likes that Canon has is slow at jumping head first into this stuff. It's certainly not the end of the world as some here seem to believe it is. It's not as if you couldn't just buy or rent a video cam and complete the same projects successfully. You do have other options.
In the end the people watching it care very little about what it was shot on. Worry about your skills more then the tools. If it's good, It's good. I mean if you must go the "shot by Gadget X" route to market your stuff ( then you might not be as talented as you think ) you can shoot the thing on a iPhone 3GS and people will be more impressed to hear that then from a DSLR. As a camera, the 3Gs is cheap!
I still don't understand why folks are so surprised that a still camera company with no previous "pro video" R&D department of the likes that Canon has is slow at jumping head first into this stuff. It's certainly not the end of the world as some here seem to believe it is. It's not as if you couldn't just buy or rent a video cam and complete the same projects successfully. You do have other options.
In the end the people watching it care very little about what it was shot on. Worry about your skills more then the tools. If it's good, It's good. I mean if you must go the "shot by Gadget X" route to market your stuff ( then you might not be as talented as you think ) you can shoot the thing on a iPhone 3GS and people will be more impressed to hear that then from a DSLR. As a camera, the 3Gs is cheap!
You can't slam artists and/or craftsmen for wanting better tools. And while it is certainly true that it is the Indian and not the arrow, better arrows make for more lethal Indians. Don't you develop skills concurrently with tools acquisition?
And have you looked at the d300s marketing? The words "consumer" or "toy" or "amateur" are not there. They describe a D.Movie for "professionals".
I know where you can get some clean stone tablets...just how talented are you? And you sure won't need a steel chisel...a real artist would cut them with his talented forehead.
:grin:
Nathan Troutman
Active member
This is valid point about Nikon except that all the rumors I had read reveal that over at Canon the 5D was developed completely independent of the video department and that in fact the two departments don't really get along too well. So Canon's still guys managed to create a pretty amazing video mode. I find it hard to believe Nikon doesn't have the brain talent to make this happen. And figuring all of this out could make Nikon a whole TON of money just because they don't have a video department and hence have no camcorder sales to protect.
Maybe, in the end, Nikon couldn't interrupt it's normal release cycle with a major update to a product that was originally intended to be an stop-gap release (hence the S instead of D400). And in fact all of the techno-wizardry for a true killer video mode is being done with the FF D700. Whatever the intentions Nikon now really really has to deliver the good with the D700 because the D300s "YAWN" didn't do anything .
RyanBellaCine
Well-known member
I do agree that there is a thing as the right tool for the job. No question about that. But that's not what you are arguing. Your argument is that Nikon isn't a good company because they won't cater to the requirements of video pros. And now it's the end of the world because Nikon won't give you what you think you're entitled to get. How dare they make you suffer with Photography Camera that shoots amazing photos, but their video is just kinda ok. That's so insulting isn't it? How can Nikon possibly live with themselves? Boo hoo indeed. :crybaby:
I read through the brochure, and it seems to me their video features target Pro Photographers who want to jump into video multimedia projects. You know like online streaming footage they could add to there web site. Stuff of "home video" or "behind the scenes" quality. That's the impression I get from it.
I don't see anywhere where they claim the D300s is a Professional Video Capture device targeted towards "Video Pros". It's a professional photography tool that happens to have video capabilities. They quote a photo journalist, not a video production pro. And the whole brochure is clearly targeted towards Photography, with the video thing a secondary feature stuffed among all the other features which photographers can make use of.
I wouldn't jump to the D300s for anything "broadcast" worthy. To say it would be great if Nikon did make a super tool for video capture in DSLR form is a perfectly fair thing to want and wish for. Tons of people would make use of it. It really would create a whole new market for Nikon. And it seems to me that's what you really mean.
But you seem tied to the idea that because their goals don't equal yours right now, Nikon is complete rubbish. Go another route until they do. You are perfectly capable of doing so. There are plenty of other options. Let Nikon know they would have a real viable market for video production cameras in DSLR form "with these requested features and improvements". let them know what kind of a market place is waiting in the woods. It might help persuade them to adopt Video Pro goals for future products with the more positive feedback they get.
Just don't let them know by insulting them and branding them as failures. That won't get you anywhere but angry. Nikon certainly won't be so willing to cater to you if all you do is ***** and moan because you don't get what you want. Show them a business proposal they can't pass up and persuade them to provide what you request because there is something that's in it for them. Demanding entitlement just pisses people off. You're entitled to life, death, and taxes. And that's basically about it. Everything else is earned.
:beer: Cheers. It's been a fun debate. I know I can really get into these things and duke it out. But now it's Friday afternoon. Time for the weekend. Hope you have a good one too. :beer:
I read through the brochure, and it seems to me their video features target Pro Photographers who want to jump into video multimedia projects. You know like online streaming footage they could add to there web site. Stuff of "home video" or "behind the scenes" quality. That's the impression I get from it.
I don't see anywhere where they claim the D300s is a Professional Video Capture device targeted towards "Video Pros". It's a professional photography tool that happens to have video capabilities. They quote a photo journalist, not a video production pro. And the whole brochure is clearly targeted towards Photography, with the video thing a secondary feature stuffed among all the other features which photographers can make use of.
I wouldn't jump to the D300s for anything "broadcast" worthy. To say it would be great if Nikon did make a super tool for video capture in DSLR form is a perfectly fair thing to want and wish for. Tons of people would make use of it. It really would create a whole new market for Nikon. And it seems to me that's what you really mean.
But you seem tied to the idea that because their goals don't equal yours right now, Nikon is complete rubbish. Go another route until they do. You are perfectly capable of doing so. There are plenty of other options. Let Nikon know they would have a real viable market for video production cameras in DSLR form "with these requested features and improvements". let them know what kind of a market place is waiting in the woods. It might help persuade them to adopt Video Pro goals for future products with the more positive feedback they get.
Just don't let them know by insulting them and branding them as failures. That won't get you anywhere but angry. Nikon certainly won't be so willing to cater to you if all you do is ***** and moan because you don't get what you want. Show them a business proposal they can't pass up and persuade them to provide what you request because there is something that's in it for them. Demanding entitlement just pisses people off. You're entitled to life, death, and taxes. And that's basically about it. Everything else is earned.
:beer: Cheers. It's been a fun debate. I know I can really get into these things and duke it out. But now it's Friday afternoon. Time for the weekend. Hope you have a good one too. :beer:
well, they were perfectly entitled to not release an almost great *video camera* in the first place. now they did and it has its problems, problems pros and amateurs alike are able to point out, and have more or less directly to nikon for a year, then the next version has the same problem. how is this not a problem for you?