Jeff Anderson
Custom Title!
And that hood looks alot nicer than my foam core and gaffer tape...
Hpx170 News!
- Thread starter Spec-Comm
- Start date
Derrick_SA
Veteran
at this point I'll be so grateful that the camera can be upgrade to pal/ntsc, even though it's not the best thought out policy for updates, I would pay the $500 with a smile for "ifetime" cover.
- Derrick
- Derrick
CW-35
Well-known member
I guess I really don't understand the situation Panasonic is in. The EX1 is PAL/NTSC switchable out of the box.
If the path of the 170 to have this ability for the end user is to have to box up your camera and send it back to Panasonic with each firmware upgrade, that certainly puts a huge time & cost burden on the owner of the 170 in terms of downtime and shipping costs & the time involved in shipping the camera.
I just don't understand why it simply isn't an "out of the box" feature as well.
If the path of the 170 to have this ability for the end user is to have to box up your camera and send it back to Panasonic with each firmware upgrade, that certainly puts a huge time & cost burden on the owner of the 170 in terms of downtime and shipping costs & the time involved in shipping the camera.
I just don't understand why it simply isn't an "out of the box" feature as well.
I'll take a stab at it...
Panasonic sells cameras in markets all over the world at varying prices. I don't know about Panasonic's situation specifically, but the usual reasons for the varying prices are: varying warranty coverages; varying accessories; because they can get away with charging more some places and less others; relative strengths of currencies; tariffs and duties; etc.
If some clever person buys cameras cheaply in one area and moves them to another area where they can make more money, they throw Panasonic and all their dealers into a tizzy. This is the so-called "grey market." It's not necessarily illegal in terms of real laws, but it breaks all kinds of arrangements the manufacturers have with their authorized dealers. And in some cases, if people get away with it, they cost the manufacturer real money (like if they buy a camera in a little-warranty area of the world, and then use it and try to get it fixed in a generous-warranty area of the world.)
So Panasonic (and all manufacturers) have a real incentive to try to stop this kind of stuff, while the people doing it have a real financial incentive to find ways around the safeguards Panasonic puts in place. An unending cat and mouse game.
The NTSC and PAL differences provide a natural barrier to some of this grey market movement. A cheap PAL camera shipped to the US isn't going to command the high US prices it ought to, because it's the wrong format. On the other hand, a switchable camera is very "dangerous" - it can be moved and sold anywhere in the world!
So Panasonic wants to make sure a camera was distrubuted and sold in the proper area before modding it, and then charge a not-insignificant amount of money for the mod. Now the camera is theoretically sellable anywhere in the world, but they've also removed all of the paths to make it lucrative to do so.
As long as that has such little impact on a customer (send it back once, pay $300 extra), I'm totally OK with Panasonic going down that twisted path to help fight their distribution chain problems. But to then turn it into an ongoing revenue stream because they didn't think through all the long-term ramifications? In other words, all their completely honest customers with legitimate cameras pay a serious financial price to help Panasonic fight a problem that's not of the legitimate customers' doing. Seems wrong to me. They should figure out a better way to do that. Or figure out a completely different way to control their distribution. Or even find some way to just sell the same camera everywhere for the same price (call me crazy...) It's their problem, not ours, we just want to buy a useful camera and use it.
Duncan
Panasonic sells cameras in markets all over the world at varying prices. I don't know about Panasonic's situation specifically, but the usual reasons for the varying prices are: varying warranty coverages; varying accessories; because they can get away with charging more some places and less others; relative strengths of currencies; tariffs and duties; etc.
If some clever person buys cameras cheaply in one area and moves them to another area where they can make more money, they throw Panasonic and all their dealers into a tizzy. This is the so-called "grey market." It's not necessarily illegal in terms of real laws, but it breaks all kinds of arrangements the manufacturers have with their authorized dealers. And in some cases, if people get away with it, they cost the manufacturer real money (like if they buy a camera in a little-warranty area of the world, and then use it and try to get it fixed in a generous-warranty area of the world.)
So Panasonic (and all manufacturers) have a real incentive to try to stop this kind of stuff, while the people doing it have a real financial incentive to find ways around the safeguards Panasonic puts in place. An unending cat and mouse game.
The NTSC and PAL differences provide a natural barrier to some of this grey market movement. A cheap PAL camera shipped to the US isn't going to command the high US prices it ought to, because it's the wrong format. On the other hand, a switchable camera is very "dangerous" - it can be moved and sold anywhere in the world!
So Panasonic wants to make sure a camera was distrubuted and sold in the proper area before modding it, and then charge a not-insignificant amount of money for the mod. Now the camera is theoretically sellable anywhere in the world, but they've also removed all of the paths to make it lucrative to do so.
As long as that has such little impact on a customer (send it back once, pay $300 extra), I'm totally OK with Panasonic going down that twisted path to help fight their distribution chain problems. But to then turn it into an ongoing revenue stream because they didn't think through all the long-term ramifications? In other words, all their completely honest customers with legitimate cameras pay a serious financial price to help Panasonic fight a problem that's not of the legitimate customers' doing. Seems wrong to me. They should figure out a better way to do that. Or figure out a completely different way to control their distribution. Or even find some way to just sell the same camera everywhere for the same price (call me crazy...) It's their problem, not ours, we just want to buy a useful camera and use it.
Duncan
Spec-Comm
DVXuser Sponsor
Thank you Duncan.
That is a great observation!
I have said it before and I'll keep saying it. Gray marketers are a MAJOR problem in this market and it's actually causing some authorized dealers to go out of business because they can't compete with the $3000 HVX deals out there. Panasonic is looking for ways to regulate this which will NEVER be the perfect fix. However, at least they are going in the right direction.
We also need to remember our roots. Most of the DVCPRO tape cameras have firmware chips that need to be replaced by a Panasonic Authorized Service Center. Panasonic charged about $150 per chip. There are three chips in the camera. That's $450 in parts, plus labor and shipping. So sending your camera in for upgrades like the PAL upgrade isn't something new for Panasonic, people have been doing it since the inception of DVCPRO in 1996.
$0.02
I try not to rant and rave so thanks in advance for not beating me up over this.
Andrew Hoffman
That is a great observation!
I have said it before and I'll keep saying it. Gray marketers are a MAJOR problem in this market and it's actually causing some authorized dealers to go out of business because they can't compete with the $3000 HVX deals out there. Panasonic is looking for ways to regulate this which will NEVER be the perfect fix. However, at least they are going in the right direction.
We also need to remember our roots. Most of the DVCPRO tape cameras have firmware chips that need to be replaced by a Panasonic Authorized Service Center. Panasonic charged about $150 per chip. There are three chips in the camera. That's $450 in parts, plus labor and shipping. So sending your camera in for upgrades like the PAL upgrade isn't something new for Panasonic, people have been doing it since the inception of DVCPRO in 1996.
$0.02
I try not to rant and rave so thanks in advance for not beating me up over this.
Andrew Hoffman
Ah, I wasn't aware of the history of firmware upgrades on older cameras. That makes more sense, then. The Panasonic engineers brought the technology into this decade, with Flash upgradeable firmware... while the business guys are stuck in the last decade, where you could get away with using the existing mail-in firmware upgrades as part of an anti-grey-market strategy, and not ruffle any feathers.
Just so it's clear, I've got nothing against Panasonic trying to run their distribution however they see fit, and they can't just ignore it because then their authorized dealers feel the pain... but really that's all their problem, not ours. Making legitimate customers suffer in the name of fixing it should be the last resort, not part of the main strategy.
Duncan
Just so it's clear, I've got nothing against Panasonic trying to run their distribution however they see fit, and they can't just ignore it because then their authorized dealers feel the pain... but really that's all their problem, not ours. Making legitimate customers suffer in the name of fixing it should be the last resort, not part of the main strategy.
Duncan
Spec-Comm
DVXuser Sponsor
Alright!
We have reached the quota on reservations for the camera so we have removed the registration form from our website.
I would like to thank everyone for all of the support and the many reservations. We will keep everyone up-to-date with the latest news on the reservations, ship dates etc...
For those who would still like to order, you are able to order on our online store. We will be handling all reservation clients before web store orders so there is a chance that you will have to wait until our second shipment.
Thank you all so much for your patience and support!
Andrew Hoffman
Vice President
Specialized Communications Corp.
20940 Twin Springs Dr.
Smithsburg, MD 21783-1510 USA
800-359-1858 (US)
301-790-0103
Fax: 301-790-0173
andrewh@spec-comm.com
www.spec-comm.com
Please visit our new online store at ( http://www.spec-comm.com/store ). New products being added daily!
We have reached the quota on reservations for the camera so we have removed the registration form from our website.
I would like to thank everyone for all of the support and the many reservations. We will keep everyone up-to-date with the latest news on the reservations, ship dates etc...
For those who would still like to order, you are able to order on our online store. We will be handling all reservation clients before web store orders so there is a chance that you will have to wait until our second shipment.
Thank you all so much for your patience and support!
Andrew Hoffman
Vice President
Specialized Communications Corp.
20940 Twin Springs Dr.
Smithsburg, MD 21783-1510 USA
800-359-1858 (US)
301-790-0103
Fax: 301-790-0173
andrewh@spec-comm.com
www.spec-comm.com
Please visit our new online store at ( http://www.spec-comm.com/store ). New products being added daily!
Spec-Comm
DVXuser Sponsor
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Spec-Comm
DVXuser Sponsor
Honestly, I'm not sure. The monitor has the screw holes on the side and I know that I have seen those hoods but I never took notice as to how they attach.
Andrew Hoffman
Jeff Anderson
Custom Title!
That's cool, I may just have to buy one and find out My diy one doesnt do much for me outside...
My diy one doesnt do much for me outside...Dafilman21
Carbonite Member
Hey Andrew How far away is Spec-Comm away from NW DC? I would love to come see you guys store.
Spec-Comm
DVXuser Sponsor
Hello Dafilman,
We are about 1 hour and 45 minutes away with traffic. We don't have a show room, our show room is mainly our web store and we always welcome visitors to our facility. Please let me know when you would like to come by and I will give you a tour.
We will be putting on a really nice P2 HD workflow workshop with Panasonic at the end of September in your area. Barry Green is our speaker and we should have a show booth there and everything. It's free too!
Andrew Hoffman
Vice President
Specialized Communications Corp.
20940 Twin Springs Dr.
Smithsburg, MD 21783-1510 USA
800-359-1858 (US)
301-790-0103
Fax: 301-790-0173
andrewh@spec-comm.com
www.spec-comm.com
Please visit our new online store at ( http://www.spec-comm.com/store ). New products being added daily!
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Andrew:
Who's this "Barry Green" guy?
Does he know anything about p2 workflow and Panasonic products?
Who's this "Barry Green" guy?
Does he know anything about p2 workflow and Panasonic products?
Spec-Comm
DVXuser Sponsor
Jan_Crittenden
Veteran
Hi Andrew, thanks for stepping in on this and getting the information out. On the Grey market issue, I have tried to buy the "deals" out there on the HVX205s, and you know, it seems that when I don't order any of the rest of the useless, or inferior quality filters, tripods or stuff they want to sell, my order is cancelled within a day wit the note that the camera i wanted is badly backordered and since they have no method of holding back-orders I can try again in a few months. So then I was skeptical that they knew who I was so I had one of our consultants try and order, he got the same treatment.
There really is no deal, these unscupulous folks will say anything to get you to buy the camera from them including that it is a US authorized product, which it is not.
The AG-HPX170 is called different things in different countries. In Japan it will be the AG-HPX175, in the US the full number on the outside of the box is AG-HPX170PUJ. This model number indicates that it has the P2 Card in the box. This is the model on the outside of the box, so you don't even have to open it to see if it is a US model.
Best regards,
Jan
Jan_Crittenden
Veteran
While essentially it is our problem, it is not one of our making. The Federal Government legalized Gray Market sometime in the late 70's. We have tried many strategies to try to get customers to look for US product, like including the P2 Card and Barry's book. But the problem is that it is a world market. We have on record a number of HPX500 customers that live in Europe, they flew to NYC, could have stayed in posh hotel and had dinner at one of the finest restaurants in Manhatten with the money they saved. And then went back to Panasonic Europe to ask for the $2000 rebate.
I am sure you can imagine how well that went over. So yes it is our problem and our solution is the best we can figure out at this time. We will see how this goes and if it works it works. And if it doesn't, well we will try again.
I hope this helps,
Jan
Jan_Crittenden
Veteran
Hi Duncan,
Sorry I started at the end of the thread so I I am really resonding twice to you, I think. Anyhow your post is pretty spot on, but it is not a souce os ongoing revenue stream. We are not trying to milk people out of their money, it is if you are going to maintain always the top level of firmware in your camera, please look at the $500 option. This means you could send it in 20 times in the next five years to have it reset. That is an exaggeration in that in 2 1/2 years we have only had 1 significant firmware upgrade. There was a minor one, that most did not down load and implement.
Point here is that there is a cost for bench time, and the $300 is for a little bit of harware and a firmware change from what I hear. So the hardware is cheap but the bench time is not. I totally recommend the $500 version.
We are not trying to gouge, we are trying to manage a Global Market and there really are not any lesson books out there for such little problems. Overall, I think the camera is going to be a fabulous camera, I really just love all of the features they have packed into it, it really feels like one of the big cameras functionally.
All the best,
jan