GH5 How interested are you in a GH6 anymore?

NorBro said:
This camera is such a pain to use but I cannot let go of this color science.
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I’d be curious how CineMatch works with converting to red color science. Can you try using it to convert one of your canon cameras to red color science and share?

im sure there’s other factors involved with the look beyond just the color but I haven’t been able to do a comparison like that myself.
 
ahalpert said:
Strong words! There are many different segments of the market. To be sure, FF AF users are not 100%, but it's not 0% either. No single segment fully constitutes "the buyers".

Ultimately we're each working around different use cases. I'm happy that the GH6 is such a good fit for you! It is an extremely worthy upgrade to my GH5
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There is no one product that fits everyone. That was my point. Each application has its own set of important parameters. I was just pointing out that to down a product because it does not meet a particular set of features is not valid. The GH6 is not the product for a Vlogger. So---- But the moment it is used wide angle or at higher frame rates it will likely do the job as well as any other camera. If you are making a film with lots of prime lenses etc you don't have autofocus anyway. The user needs to know the tools they are using , the strengths and limitations.
 
NorBro said:
I missed this post and I love it!

This camera is such a pain to use but I cannot let go of this color science. I have completely stopped grading footage and that's quite unbelievable to me.

For me, there was never anything in a camera that made it worth keeping as much as this besides maybe AF, but AF was on different models.

Color science and DR I love has not come often to me.
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How can you stop grading footage?
 
filmguy123 said:
I’d be curious how CineMatch works with converting to red color science. Can you try using it to convert one of your canon cameras to red color science and share?

im sure there’s other factors involved with the look beyond just the color but I haven’t been able to do a comparison like that myself.
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They support it and I think it would do a great job, but I also think people don't use it and mix cameras in edits and viewers don't even notice, especially in fast-paced products (unless the quality/compression/color is so poor that it's clearly obvious like with an old GoPro or drone or something). And especially with comparable high-quality formats like REDCODE and ProRes 444 and CRL.

But, to me, I see subtle and attractive differences compared to other cameras I've had in the past, and I can't tell you enough how thrilled I am without having to grade the footage. I'll make corrections if and when I mess up (and depending on the scene/mood), but with other formats - like the Canon H.265s and XF-AVCs and CRLs and Sony XAVCs, etc. - applying the official transformation LUTs were never good enough for me. (Blackmagic's options were pretty good.)

The official LUTs all transformed the image but it looked dull and boring. And spending a lot of money on professional color companies'/YouTubers' LUTs was okay, but I still had to either put in more work or dial it down because some looks were too specialized, if you will.

Obviously I know putting in more grading work is SOP, but I don't do that much with the RED! And I don't want to!

P.S. I only have a Canon RP as a stills/webcam so it's not worth comparing.

I actually desperately need a gimbal camera for March (more working and less forum talking...I know I'm surprised, too) - and I even started thinking about the Sony a7IV because the auto-focus is just godly (it's better than Canon's - sorry, Canon) - but the color science just does not work for me.

And I say that to see if CineMatch might be able to help with that. lol
 
^^^ *cheaper gimbal camera

There's the R6 but I don't want that one and Sony has a much better lens lineup for faster, wider primes (actually probably better for the entire range).
 
NorBro said:
.

I actually desperately need a gimbal camera for March (more working and less forum talking...I know I'm surprised, too) - and I even started thinking about the Sony a7IV because the auto-focus is just godly (it's better than Canon's - sorry, Canon) - but the color science just does not work for me.

And I say that to see if CineMatch might be able to help with that. lol
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Why not use the komodo? The AF isn't good enough?

When i had a Scarlet, I felt like it was the best color i had ever worked with. Both mixed lighting conditions but also just saturated colors jn bright daylight. The camera never did good business,, though

And I've come to accept that my producers and clients are less attuned to these facets of IQ than I am. hence the wild popularity the fs7 enjoyed...
 
ahalpert said:
Why not use the komodo? The AF isn't good enough?

When i had a Scarlet, I felt like it was the best color i had ever worked with. Both mixed lighting conditions but also just saturated colors jn bright daylight. The camera never did good business,, though

And I've come to accept that my producers and clients are less attuned to these facets of IQ than I am. hence the wild popularity the fs7 enjoyed...
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I'm struggling with figuring out what to do.

I wouldn't trust the AF but it can be passable for the b-roll I need it to be passable for.

The bigger issue I am facing is lens choice and if I want to deal with the Komodo tied up to a gimbal. I'd rather have this camera on standby for everything and have a dedicated gimbal camera.

I really want the 15-35mm and have added and removed it from my cart about 100x, but it is the same price as another camera that I could have which could ultimately prove to be a better investment. Plus, no in-camera corrections worry me a bit although it appears to look okay.

And, yeah...there have been improvements from the Scarlet-X to IPP2 and Log 3G10.
 
ahalpert said:
come to accept that... clients... are less attuned to these facets of IQ than I am. hence the wild popularity the fs7 enjoyed...
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Hence why I'm not too fussed about any IQ differences between a GH6 and [fill in the blank] anymore, for most viewers they've roughly reached parity and they are far more likely to notice things like composition and content.
 
ahalpert said:
better? or actually reliable? not the latter, from what I've heard... I think that AF has to get really, really good before it's even worth considering
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I've seen "best AF every from Panasonic", "definitely usable", "they finally fix it", etc. I've seen some good examples. Not perfect but even Sony's are not. Maybe if you do weddings you might want something else. The Gh6 is more of a filmmakers camera.
 
Did you see a person's mouth saying those words or did you see samples of the focusing?

From what I have seen, nothing is fixed or usable unless pulsing at any given time is okay.

If pulsing at any given time is okay - or one has the luxury of editing around pulsing like with some music videos where shots could be 20 frames (not even a full second) and there's no specific direction - then that can be usable for that individual.

But, Zim; you want to make films. You sound like you care about making films.

This camera is the complete opposite of a filmmaker's camera when it comes to AF. I highly recommend you turn it off when using it during precious takes if you are serious about making a movie and care about your movie. (If you have a complicated camera movement then that's a different conversation.)

And the difference between Sony and Canon AF and Panasonic AF was explained in this thread. It's how they stay patient and react; not if they lose focus.
 
Every reviewer is there to do business. And the nature of the beast is that they're not in the reviewing business as much as in a selling business. Their 2%-5% commissions from B&H, Amazon, Adorama and alike add up. So, it's not that the reviews are blatantly dishonest, it's that they're blatantly positive.

"The best Panasonic ever". Well, it actually may be so. But it may not be the best camera under $2,500 ever. Regardless, they're silent about that. Which means that, if you don't read between the lines and infer the unsaid, you may end up DFD'd. Which is always a personal matter.
 
The regular Joes and Janes who post like one video every 3 months are different.

Or the ones who either get right to it or who don't talk much but just show the results.

I like all kinds of content including the wacky entertainers/vloggers, but I gravitate towards the hands-on people who explain well, even over-explain, how to do things and are doing them while on camera. Those are my kind of videos to really learn screen-to-screen without having access to the hardware (or having access and following along).
 
DFD / contrast - if there’s a way to fix the pulsing issue without further hardware I don’t know how. I don’t think so. The system by design has to pulse to find focus, that is how it verifies. So in fact as the mechanism goes quicker it just pulses more. The only solution I can think of would be to do digital trickery where the camera composites comparisons frames on the fly and masks them but it seems that could just create more problems and require serious hardware.

in any case it is my guess on this iteration you will have to live with pulsing. As far as speed and holding focus, I’m not sure. I think that can continue to improve via machine learning and software update, it has so far.

as far as long term, I think it will all get solved, but will almost certainly need a new iteration with new hardware. Panasonic may never get PDAF but they can perhaps invent something new. Like a time of flight sensor, or a second micro lens on the body that performs DFD and distance calculation so the camera doesn’t pulse. Or a new tech not yet invented. It’s just a matter of when IMO.

But from my understanding of the tech, I would expect further speed and stability improvements throughout the GH6 life cycle since that has been par for the course for years now with Panasonic. But I would not expect the pulsing issue to go away, because I can’t think of a way it can be solved in software - at least as far as I underwent how it works. I’d be happy to be wrong.

But for me personally I’ve always used MF and so when I’d use AF it would be in dynamic shots and sparingly so I think it might give me a new little tool to mess with, harder to notice the pulsing when the camera is moving around. And I didn’t think the pulsing is too bad if you aren’t looking for it. But then I also wouldn’t use AF to hold a long static shot like an interview in focus (even though NorBro brings up a good use case for such).
 
Panasonic should have been researching and developing something like below.

It wouldn't affect Sony and Canon too much since it's a different solution. And people would have to use cinema lenses with real gears (fake gears slip off most of the time).

DJI's system needs work and you don't have the face/eye/object/animal tracking, but perhaps you could start off with different zones and then eventually a touchscreen interface.

MFT is also the perfect mount for it because of the adaptable cinema lens catalogue.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...us_system.html


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Ironically, in the photo below, they have the system working on a Canon camera that doesn't need it (but they are using a cinema lens so that's why).

Click image for larger version Name: DJI 3D Focus.jpg Views: 0 Size: 33.4 KB ID: 5687510
 
So when is someone going to create a new thread titled "How interested are you in a GH7 anymore?"
Then we can start debating whether they will fix the AF in another 6 years from now.
 
Or maybe a GH6S in about 8 months... :shocked:

Now ya'll didn't think your GH6 wouldn't have company, did you!? :happy:
 
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