GH5 How interested are you in a GH6 anymore?

Updated sensors and image processing pipelines can help with that, but it's still Panasonic's corporate decision if they will allow it.

It's one of the reasons cinema cameras (or higher priced cameras, in general) have the higher price tags, basically to look different than their mirrorless counterparts.

After the initial LOG offerings, DR has barely improved in these kind of cameras so I wouldn't expect much, unless you're saying you'd like to see maybe half a stop more from the 12 or so stops it has, which is always good - but the larger sensors out there are moving onto a pretty solid 13-14 stops and beyond (future).

I actually just said yesterday that I would only pay more than $1K for a camera if it had 8K/6K and RAW - along with FF and AF - but I'd probably personally consider a small chip 4K/60p camera at this point for even less.
 
Dual gain-dual readout can help with the DR.

But, with GH-6, Panasonic is running into the same problem Nikon was facing with Z9 - if you want to make inroads against the industry leaders, you got to beat them on specs/performance. Being "as good" ain't good enough. So, let's take a look at an alleged $2,500 price point. Sony has a full frame camera with an oversampled 4K, 33 MPX stills and a top notch auto focus. Panasonic was supposed to bring out Micro Four Thirds, 6K, 20-22 MPX and shabby auto focus. That is unlikely to fly out of the box.

Furthermore, there have been plenty of rumors about an 8K APS-C model from Fuji for around $2,000. And an 8K video means stills at around 42-45 MPX. (AF is uncertain, as past Fuji efforts in the area left an underwhelming impression).

The above models - one already announced, the other quite possibly coming out early 2022 - leave Panasonic in a precarious position. It either has to drastically lower its projected pricing or drastically up the specs.

Meanwhile Sony has a $700, 24 MPX APS-C (Z10) camera already. It may have a slow rolling shutter but it's a more than a decent hybrid cam. With a flippy screen. An MFT model should be able to underbid it. Except Panasonic doesn't seem to be interested.
 
For me the competition at $2500 is the BMPocket 6K Pro. I do not need IBIS or autofocus for what I do. So the GH6 has to be better than the BM. So at least 6K, RAW ( maybe ProRes RAW and BRAW like the GH5S) nice to have internal recording at the same time as external RAW too. I hardly think it would have less than the GH5S. By the time GH6 comes out maybe BM will have an 8K version of the Pocket .
 
FWIW, camera sales are still tanking. The overall projection now - my informal number crunching off the most recent CIPA data - is somewhere around 5,000,000 units for 2021. Could this have played a role in the GH-6 release delay? Possibly. The total interchangeable lens camera sales were about 20,000,000 units a decade ago and have been sliding down ever since. 5 million would represent a 75% slide. Fewer models sold means fewer models released. GH-4 was once selling about 60,000 units annually. These numbers seem like a dreamland these days.
 
This thread is kind of a depressing look at the demise of a market leader. Every day Panasonic waits the harder it will be to sell the GH6. I think they did not have the sensor a year or two ago that would impress, so they were forced to wait. The only shot they have is to make the GH6 heavy video centric with internal RAW recording and phase detect AF. If they show up with another DFD camera in 2022 there will be chuckles from the community no matter how nice the image is. Now that the A7IV has been shown, the baseline is established.
 
IMO, Panasonic had to go along with the crowd when the switch to the mirrorless happened a couple of years ago, even though MFT is - duh - is also mirrorless. But when Nikon and Canon dropped their DSLR lines and went full frame, Panasonic was given an opportunity to tag along with a move into a more upscale market. And then S1 and S5 came out instead of GH-6 and now the company has to up the spec game on GH-6 beyond what was previously expected.

As a side note, I'll speculate that the pure video market is quite saturated with the most recent 4K and 6K models. 8K is rapidly becoming a trend that will see sub-$2,000 cameras with that technology in 2022. That's why looking at it long term, Panasonic realizes that GH-6 has to be ahead of the curve to sell in the neighborhood of $2,500.

And so maybe it has to rename it GH-8. With 8K. Or something. Or say sayonara to the whole biz.
 
I don't need shallow dof, quite the opposite . Shooting from the back of the hall I want everything in focus on the stage. Different people want different features so not likely one camera will fit everyone. I consequently have no interest in a full frame camera. But I would like high resolution as I want to crop into the image which is what I do now with the GH5 and GH5S. I also shoot at 60P so for instance the A71V will crop to super 35 so may as well get the Pocket 6K Pro in the first place.
 
Ron Evans said:
I don't need shallow dof, quite the opposite . Shooting from the back of the hall I want everything in focus on the stage. Different people want different features so not likely one camera will fit everyone. I consequently have no interest in a full frame camera. But I would like high resolution as I want to crop into the image which is what I do now with the GH5 and GH5S. I also shoot at 60P so for instance the A71V will crop to super 35 so may as well get the Pocket 6K Pro in the first place.
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Camera companies design their cameras to attract the largest target audience. We all have our personal preferences but most people want shallow dof, low light performance, and advance auto focus. All of these features the GH5 gets low marks. GH has suffered by the advancement of all it's competitors while it has stagnated. You said it yourself about getting a Black Magic. Nikon is suffering a similar fate. When companies fall behind, users are forced to move on. Once they've invested in new glass they aren't coming back.
 
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Yes I do understand but you too need to understand that the choice for me as others will be on their specific needs. Not a generic list of everything that is possible. I understand that Panasonic will have to have a list that embraces as many people as possible. So for me a new camera has to have at least internal AND simultaneous external recording UHD 60P 4:2:2 10 bit or RAW with no time limit as a must. Preferably 6K or 8K. Low light is also important but IBIS, auto focus etc of no interest as for me they are always manual and on a tripod. I have no interest in stills either purely video. I have had both the GH5 and the GH5S since they came out and neither has taken a still. I have only used the GH5 once hand held in the almost 4 years I have owned it for a short time before going back to the AX53 that has much longer zoom and better image stabilization than the GH5. I bought the GH5 initially for only one reason. in 2017 it was the lowest cost way of recording UHD60P with no time limit. Lots of the other features of the GH5 were and are of little interest. I bought the GH5S for the low light capability and as you can imagine the lack of IBIS did not figure in my decision at all. It means I can use the 14-140 with the GH5S in the theatre with much the same response as the 12-60 on the GH5. Continuous auto focus does not work in the theatre so of no importance to me.

My present GH5 and GH5S do a good job now and the reason to upgrade would be to make crop/pan/zoom into the image easier and so would have to be 6 or 8K, preferably RAW to also give me more flexibility in edit.
 
It's like automatic vs. the manual. Which is why better models have DCT. It's both.

By the way, a few years ago, a Canon exec opined that the market will subside down to five mil and then stabilize at that level. His logic - and a poor attempt at one, IMO - was that the old film camera sold about that many. But there are two problems with that analysis. The old film cameras did not compete with smartphones. On the other hand, one could hold onto the film camera for a long time because the technological advancement wasn't as rapid. Well, the negative outweighs the positive. Smartphones have the amateur photo market for lunch.

PS. There's something weird going on at the DxO. For a long time, they had the Chinese brands Huawei and Xiaomi at the top of the smartphone camera rankings. In fact, Huawei led. Which led many to question DxO's testing procedures and wonder outright if those high rankings had been bought. The last time I looked at the site, the Chinese brands disappeared off DxO like the old NKVD heads in Stalin's 1930's. Gone.
 
Dusting off my GH5 tomorrow to get extra reach from my 70-200 w/2x extender. Guess I'm glad I haven't sold it yet
 
They could easily improve on the GH5 and if they would keep it under $2,000 they would sell a ton of them. It's not they have to come up with a bunch of new tech.
 
They would sell a few for $2000, but it's still way too high for what it currently seems to be with R6s and a7IVs around the same price.

If the camera's IQ doesn't have a true visual improvement that's easily seen on YouTube on multiple channels - whether through processing or increased dynamic range or whatever - and also very confirmed improvements to AF, it needs to be around $500 to move any units.

Hate to talk like this but I'm just tired of lackluster Panasonic.

2 cinema cameras in 12 years...come on already (and I'm not counting the recycled boxes or anything over $10,000).
 
A7IV is getting great reviews (in usual places) - full frame, great 4K, great auto focus, excellent ISO performance, digital image stabilization (crop), (relatively) high res stills, focus breathing compensation for video (Sony glass only), excellent lens selection.
 
When does anyone actually say anything bad about Sony cameras? lol

If they did, no more trips to Hawaii, you know that, DLD. :crybaby:
 
Zim said:
They missed the mark
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The GH5mII was a stop gap to bring over some easy improvements from their newer cameras without a redesign, but these improvements could not be done without updating the processor. One being auto focus. From the company's internal engineering perspective it made sense but to most customers it wasn't well received.

Does anyone know if they have set a date for the GH6? In a May review they said it would be released this year but it's already November.
 
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NorBro said:
When does anyone actually say anything bad about Sony cameras? lol

If they did, no more trips to Hawaii, you know that, DLD. :crybaby:
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If Tony Northrup had said, "Sony didn't pay me for this review but I did get a free trip to the Chicken Ranch" and Chelsea replied, "And you didn't even take me with you!", then it would have been akin to a 2-star Yelp review of the Bates Motel by Marion Crane. (The bed was comfy enough but the service was terrible)
 
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