Hi, I'm brand new to this website and any forums in general, I'm actually still not sure if I am asking this question in the right place or not haha. Well I am going to college next year and am not focusing on film but am taking classes and wanting to MAYBE pursue a film career. I am heavily into filming snowboard/ski/skateboard videos and action sports in general, so that's a main focus but i also aspire to make some short film, maybe some sort of documentary and maybe music videos etc. I was previously using a t3i with a Rokinon 8mm fisheye but I'm looking to move into prosumer/professional camcorder. My budget would be $2500 max and I'm not sure if I should do the camcorder or the dslr. The 3ccd sensor is a tradition for skating and snowboarding but I don't want and DV tapes, and I know p2's are expensive and I don't think there are any p2 models that run 1080/60p which is kind of a deal breaker for me (should it be?). I've been mainly looking at the ag ac130a and 90a (160a if even possible) but I've also considered the ag hmc150, hvx200a, ag hpx170, JVC hm100 or 600, hcx-1000 (if possible), hxr nx3, pxwx70, and finally hxr nx70u. I need something that I can fit my rode stereo mic on (with or without Xlr adapter), and something that looks really good with a fisheye. PLEASEEE help, I need some serious professional opinions here! Thanks so much to who ever helps!!
ALL: HELP! Prosumer camcorders vs dslr? And what models best fit my style
- Thread starter Cal5221
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rzr219
Well-known member
Well my 2 cents, no one camera will do what you want well. For what you are doing (fast actions) I would stay away from DSLR, just a focus thing (unless you have more time to compose your shots). The 90 will do what you want (You need to see the reviews in this forum so you know the limits). The camera will only be half your costs, the rest will be a good audio (wireless or wired). Correct media, don't buy cheap, you will get what you pay for. Bag and etc, so hope this help.
Michael Carter
Veteran
My .02: I own both DSLRs and pro "video cameras" and use them both in my work.
The video camera is great for unplanned events; one of my clients is a large real estate developer that throws big community parties and does big veteran's events all over the state, all times of year. The video camera is great for that - power zoom, a great EVF with peaking, XLRs when needed (interview a homeowner or employee). I shoulder mount it in a way it can snap onto a tripod or crane. I use manual focus, WB and exposure, it has levels of gain, I can color balance quickly, change ND with a switch, and never, ever need to change a lens.
Sometimes local media is there (one of their partners was a CNN Hero last year) and in small markets, you'll often see a guy with a DSLR. That guy misses a lot of shots. He (or she) is always in front of the podium for speakers because his lens and mic won't reach (I stick a G3 on the podium for that stuff so I'm not glued to one spot) and I have to get a manager to get his ass out of the way.
I can image documentary situations that would require that same tool set - everything you need in one small package.
BUT… I would never use it for a music video or a short film. I avoid it for interviews if I have the slightest chance to plan and setup. It's just not as beautiful/pretty/evocative as a good DSLR.
I imagine a "video camera" with a larger sensor (I prefer APS-C over FF or Micro 4/3) and a great, fast zoom could replace both systems for me (but yet to see something with a power zoom that would mean no lens changes, all day long at an event). I also need focus controls on the shoulder mount handle for events.
So, there's two extremes of shooting, that you may not encounter - unplanned chaotic events that need a beautiful edit that makes the viewer say "man, I want to live there!" and cause the client to pay for me to travel to markets where they could just as well hire a local, but they're really happy with my stuff… to well-planned, well-scheduled, and storyboarded projects that needs sort of "hollywood beauty" (and potentially green screen work). There may be a system out there that can do both perfectly well - if I sold all my gear, would I still need five grand to buy it? I don't know.
I see the "video" camera - at the level I'm describing - as events, weddings, news gathering. If I was shooting skateboarders, I wouldn't consider it, I'd take the DSLR and work my ass off. Same for docs. YMMV, just my experiences since the T2i came out and changed the game (and some truly gorgeous stuff was done on the T2i.) (I shoot Nikon, likely switch to samsung this summer).
BTW, if you're thinking short films or more evocative documentaries - you don't need a camera your mic can attach to. You need an external recorder and a way to get the mic in close.
The video camera is great for unplanned events; one of my clients is a large real estate developer that throws big community parties and does big veteran's events all over the state, all times of year. The video camera is great for that - power zoom, a great EVF with peaking, XLRs when needed (interview a homeowner or employee). I shoulder mount it in a way it can snap onto a tripod or crane. I use manual focus, WB and exposure, it has levels of gain, I can color balance quickly, change ND with a switch, and never, ever need to change a lens.
Sometimes local media is there (one of their partners was a CNN Hero last year) and in small markets, you'll often see a guy with a DSLR. That guy misses a lot of shots. He (or she) is always in front of the podium for speakers because his lens and mic won't reach (I stick a G3 on the podium for that stuff so I'm not glued to one spot) and I have to get a manager to get his ass out of the way.
I can image documentary situations that would require that same tool set - everything you need in one small package.
BUT… I would never use it for a music video or a short film. I avoid it for interviews if I have the slightest chance to plan and setup. It's just not as beautiful/pretty/evocative as a good DSLR.
I imagine a "video camera" with a larger sensor (I prefer APS-C over FF or Micro 4/3) and a great, fast zoom could replace both systems for me (but yet to see something with a power zoom that would mean no lens changes, all day long at an event). I also need focus controls on the shoulder mount handle for events.
So, there's two extremes of shooting, that you may not encounter - unplanned chaotic events that need a beautiful edit that makes the viewer say "man, I want to live there!" and cause the client to pay for me to travel to markets where they could just as well hire a local, but they're really happy with my stuff… to well-planned, well-scheduled, and storyboarded projects that needs sort of "hollywood beauty" (and potentially green screen work). There may be a system out there that can do both perfectly well - if I sold all my gear, would I still need five grand to buy it? I don't know.
I see the "video" camera - at the level I'm describing - as events, weddings, news gathering. If I was shooting skateboarders, I wouldn't consider it, I'd take the DSLR and work my ass off. Same for docs. YMMV, just my experiences since the T2i came out and changed the game (and some truly gorgeous stuff was done on the T2i.) (I shoot Nikon, likely switch to samsung this summer).
BTW, if you're thinking short films or more evocative documentaries - you don't need a camera your mic can attach to. You need an external recorder and a way to get the mic in close.
Thanks a bunch for the help. Let's act as if money is no issue here. I'm really leaning towards the 3mos/3ccd cameras, but the ag ac90a/130a are also on the top of my list. I'm mainly considering the 90/130, hpx170, hvx200a, or ag hmc150. It comes down to being able to fit a good sized fisheye, work well/sturdy in rugged conditions (snowboarding/skateboarding)but will still but welcome to other sorts of filming styles. Any sort of help or advice is appreciated. I kinda need someone to make the decision for me haha
rogar-BigGrin(DBG)
rogar-BigGrin(DBG)Can you please explain what exactly correct media is? Anymore advice is also helpful thanks
(Thanks a bunch for the help. Let's act as if money is no issue here. I'm really leaning towards the 3mos/3ccd cameras, but the ag ac90a/130a are also on the top of my list. I'm mainly considering the 90/130, hpx170, hvx200a, or ag hmc150. It comes down to being able to fit a good sized fisheye, work well/sturdy in rugged conditions (snowboarding/skateboarding)but will still but welcome to other sorts of filming styles. Any sort of help or advice is appreciated. I kinda need someone to make the decision for me haha)
(Thanks a bunch for the help. Let's act as if money is no issue here. I'm really leaning towards the 3mos/3ccd cameras, but the ag ac90a/130a are also on the top of my list. I'm mainly considering the 90/130, hpx170, hvx200a, or ag hmc150. It comes down to being able to fit a good sized fisheye, work well/sturdy in rugged conditions (snowboarding/skateboarding)but will still but welcome to other sorts of filming styles. Any sort of help or advice is appreciated. I kinda need someone to make the decision for me haha)
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Spartacus
Veteran
Higher-end action sport shooters seem to like the Epic and the FS700 for their slomo capabilities.
I guess for shooting while moving, like on a skateboard, many still like to use "handle cams" like the HVX, because
the big body and its weight acts like a counterweight to jerky movements of the wrist
and pans and other movements following the actionyou're filming become smoother...
I´m really no big fan of the GH4, but considering your budget I guess it's a valid contender.
You get 4K, slomo, high bitrate codecs and you'll find tons of info about the camera, because of the GH4's popularity.
I would ad a cage with a top handle and maybe the new BlackMagic monitor/recorder and you should be good to go.
I guess for shooting while moving, like on a skateboard, many still like to use "handle cams" like the HVX, because
the big body and its weight acts like a counterweight to jerky movements of the wrist
and pans and other movements following the actionyou're filming become smoother...
I´m really no big fan of the GH4, but considering your budget I guess it's a valid contender.
You get 4K, slomo, high bitrate codecs and you'll find tons of info about the camera, because of the GH4's popularity.
I would ad a cage with a top handle and maybe the new BlackMagic monitor/recorder and you should be good to go.
kwkeirstead
Well-known member
For the fast moving sports recordings, I assume you would need/want a good auto-focus?
Some cams like the 130/160 with built-in 22x lens are slow to settle down on auto-focus and you need to press a Push Auto button on the cam if you cannot tolerate waiting.
I would expect the AG-AC90 with its 12x lens to have a faster auto-focus time.
I have an AG-AC160A and did somewhat extensive testing on the contrast path you have to follow to get a fast focus, going from a source to a distant target about 1 mile away (if you cannot/don't want to press Push Auto). The timing can vary from 1/2 a second to more than 5 seconds.
https://youtu.be/5r_QPIA4tsY
As someone pointed out, it's difficult to find one cam that can do everything you might want it to do.
Some cams like the 130/160 with built-in 22x lens are slow to settle down on auto-focus and you need to press a Push Auto button on the cam if you cannot tolerate waiting.
I would expect the AG-AC90 with its 12x lens to have a faster auto-focus time.
I have an AG-AC160A and did somewhat extensive testing on the contrast path you have to follow to get a fast focus, going from a source to a distant target about 1 mile away (if you cannot/don't want to press Push Auto). The timing can vary from 1/2 a second to more than 5 seconds.
https://youtu.be/5r_QPIA4tsY
As someone pointed out, it's difficult to find one cam that can do everything you might want it to do.
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actually with with skateboarding and snowboarding you don't want auto focus because you don't want the camera to jump around a lot while following someone. UPDATE: I need final opinions, I really wish I could get either a hpx250 or an ag ac160a but I don't have the money. With that being said my list is 1. Hpx170/ag ac130a 2. Hvx200a 3. Ag hmc150
i have also looked at the ag af100, looked cool but didn't know much about it. Please give your opinions!
kwkeirstead
Well-known member
OK, since auto-focus is not a critical function, I would encourage you to rent an AG AC130A for 2 days and try it out. You probably don't need the NTSC/PAL feature that is part of the AC160A. Not sure what other differences there are.
I have been extremely happy with my AC160A. I would have preferred a unit that could convert from hand-held to shoulder mount and you can see why from my picture (I have a Gliders Gray rig that makes manoeuvers very difficult in crowded spaces).
I took a year to pick this cam and came to realize that no one cam can do everything. I would love to have two but the logistics of finding a 2nd person to operate the other cam get too complicated for a solo operator.
I do a mix of interviews close up as well as stage events where I am usually 65-10 feet back. The AG-AC160A is ideal for this. The Studio 1 Productions Remote works very well on (start/end, iris, focus and zoom) and only costs around $100. I would never leave the house for a recording on tripod without this Remote.
The not surprising thing about the 160/130 is that whereas these products are 3 years old in my case (probably means they have been on the market for 4 years), the pricing has held so this must mean there still is a good demand,
Some people who have 130/160 are moving to 4K, so why not go for a used one? Most of the folks I know who have 130/a60's take very good care of their units, so for all paractical intents and purposes, a unit you might get from them would almost be as it was out-of-the-box.
One caveat... if you want to do a lot of hand held, then I would test try 5-azis stabilization. I say this without having ever tried it, but it's next to impossible to hand hold for long periods of time without things starting to shake. Maybe it gives a noticable difference, maybe not.
I have been extremely happy with my AC160A. I would have preferred a unit that could convert from hand-held to shoulder mount and you can see why from my picture (I have a Gliders Gray rig that makes manoeuvers very difficult in crowded spaces).
I took a year to pick this cam and came to realize that no one cam can do everything. I would love to have two but the logistics of finding a 2nd person to operate the other cam get too complicated for a solo operator.
I do a mix of interviews close up as well as stage events where I am usually 65-10 feet back. The AG-AC160A is ideal for this. The Studio 1 Productions Remote works very well on (start/end, iris, focus and zoom) and only costs around $100. I would never leave the house for a recording on tripod without this Remote.
The not surprising thing about the 160/130 is that whereas these products are 3 years old in my case (probably means they have been on the market for 4 years), the pricing has held so this must mean there still is a good demand,
Some people who have 130/160 are moving to 4K, so why not go for a used one? Most of the folks I know who have 130/a60's take very good care of their units, so for all paractical intents and purposes, a unit you might get from them would almost be as it was out-of-the-box.
One caveat... if you want to do a lot of hand held, then I would test try 5-azis stabilization. I say this without having ever tried it, but it's next to impossible to hand hold for long periods of time without things starting to shake. Maybe it gives a noticable difference, maybe not.
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