C300: Help me spend $15,000

Jaime Valles

Jaime Valles

Veteran
Hello all. Long post incoming.

I've recently come into some money ($15,000 USD) that I need to spend on my business. Ideally I'd spend it on stuff that would make me more money in the long run and advance my career, and I could use some advice.

I already have pretty much everything I need with regards to audio recording, lighting gear, and editing workstation, so I'm concentrating now on upgrading my camera gear.

Some background: I mostly shoot theatrical events (concerts, musical theater productions, cabarets, etc.) with some documentary shoots and corporate interviews as well (and the occasional wedding). Some narrative independent films on the side for fun, but that's not the main income source.

My current camera gear:
Two Canon C100 Mark I cameras
A Canon 1DX Mark II
Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8L II
Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II
Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L II
Canon EF 28-300mm f/3.5-5.6
Canon EFs 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6
Canon EF 50mm f/1.8

So, how would I best spend $15K? I'd like to stay in the Canon camp, as I like the look of their cameras and am familiar with how they work. Their Dual Pixel Auto Focus is top notch. And changing camera systems is a hassle I'd rather not undertake.

My first impulse is to go for a C300 Mark III plus related accessories. It would move me into the world of 4K without compromise, with the best auto focus on the market, high frame rates, RAW and 10-bit 4:2:2, and could conceivably bring me clients that require that level of camera. The C300 III is brand new and seems to have a lot of hype around it, so it may generate more business for me. Moving to higher level production is the main goal for my company, so this seems like a good fit.

Alternatively, I could go for a couple of C200 cameras. They would still offer a big improvement in image quality, but I'd be stuck with either massive RAW to CFast or ho-hum 8-bit 4:2:0 MP4 to SD cards. Also, I'm not sure that I'd get higher-paying clients with C200 cameras. But the DPAF would make my life easier, and having two matching cameras would be great.

That said, for the type of jobs I currently get, are cinema cameras really the way to go? Would I be better off with a couple of Canon XF705 cameras instead? Built-in all-purpose zoom lens, 4K 10-bit 4:2:2 H265 to cheap SD cards... A true run-and-gun camera. My 1DX II already gives me cinematic 4K footage for when I shoot interviews. But, like the C200, I doubt that the XF705 would open up doors to higher paying gigs.

Sooo... Whaddaya think? Am I missing anything obvious? Let me know your thoughts.

Also, I won't purchase anything just yet. With the pandemic having shut down all production here in NYC, I have time to do research and wait for the right moment to buy new stuff. Plus, I'll first rent whatever I have my eye on to make sure it works for my needs. Fifteen grand is a lot of money, so I'm going to be very careful about how I proceed.
 
The XF705 wouldn't open up any doors, but it sounds like the perfect tool for a lot of your work if low-light isn't always a concern. (Zoom rocking sounds essential for a lot of that work.)

C500 Mark III...I would download some footage each day, each week - and look at it again and again and again (in post).

Here's some to start you off: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k511nR5vhSw (in the description)

Grade it, upload it, watch it on a TV...only a few clips, but can you feel anything from it? Worth $11K?

IMO, the best bang-for-back in Canon's history is currently the C200B if you don't need the touchscreen. It's $3999 for most likely 90% of the C300's and C500's image quality after the final product is mastered to YouTube. I do think both new cameras are/will be sharper, but by how much?

In reality, $11K plus tax (and new media, etc) mostly buys a bit more dynamic range and higher quality slow-motion (120p) and 10-bit. Worth it? Maybe. Especially if you can sell the camera to people. But you won't really know that, will you?

If you're looking for a shockingly major improvement in image quality, you're not going to find it, IMO.

With $15K, you could buy a new C200B (or C200) and a new 1DX Mark III...and an external recorder that would take care of recording times and codecs (limited 4K output on the C200 but would still look good, especially the HD).

Or even a XF705 and a 1DX Mark III (stretching it there).
 
What about:

- jimmy jib etc. which you could add onto your theatrical shoots - some type of larger crane seems like a no brainer for performances/events
- high end workshop e.g. specific cinematography masterclass
- vehicle
- storage unit
- camera cart
- monitoring - 7 inch and/or larger monitor with wireless system
- DJI ronin 2 for the jib/crane
 
If you want to buy new camera gear, I think your first instinct is correct. The C300III looks set to be an amazing all-rounder and remain relevant for 5+ years. It works with all your lenses. It could be your new flagship. I would wait for more reviews and tests, but if I needed to spend $15k on a camera, I would buy that one.

And with a little money left over (maybe? After taxes/batts/media) consider an EVF, an 18-80 if it's not too slow, another prime lens maybe CN-E or L, or a gimbal (but obviously not all of that)

Keep us in the loop! I love shopping for other people
 
Jaime, I must admit, I am a little confused about the idea of the C300 MKIII "bringing you levels of clients". From the type of work you describe, it would seem nobody would dictate or know what type of camera you are using. Can you explain this as it is key imho.

If you really shoot live theatre and are tasked with representing the entire show, not a compellation edit, then tell us about your workflow as I would not want to use cinema cameras for this type of work. But we are all different. So in order to give a useful response, please give more info about how you are using your current gear. Is everything a POV camera while you are filming or do you adjust focal length manually etc...
 
Bassman2003 said:
Jaime, I must admit, I am a little confused about the idea of the C300 MKIII "bringing you levels of clients". From the type of work you describe, it would seem nobody would dictate or know what type of camera you are using. Can you explain this as it is key imho.
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I assume he means he wants new and more clients? In the corporate/doc space, they certainly care about what camera you use. And for narrative/commercial stuff RAW could be a selling point. 120fps could be useful to sports and fitness
 
need to spend on my business

your business could buy some shares, or put it in a savings account?

To be fair I think the C300iii is a keeper apart from still being just like all the cams with 2010 electronics (no built in lavs or images transmitter for example)

If I were looking at the (mainly theater) business.. could you learn abut live streaming, image transmission, some sort of images mixing/switching and webcasting, maybe a third C100, that seems an actual upgrade that might make you business more profitable.

--
Its actually a really interesting question 'my business' you are lucky to even know the answer to this! Thinking about my businessI'd probably be looking a better monitoring to make directors lives nicer, or even stools (seats) as my business is probably making directors lives better!
 
I've owned many cameras and true cine lenses over the years. I will say having a camera hasn't gotten me now clients- it has provided extra income from kit rentals, and perhaps a couple of last minute jobs (which may have contributed to longer term business relationships), But owning a particular camera is not a magic bullet. There are TONS of cameras in the NYC market- just check Sharegrid, Adorama, and the traditional rental houses. Clients who want you to use a C300M3 or equivalent are equally comfortable simply renting the right equipment for the job. Also, in the NYC market, corporate clients (at least my clients) are heavy into FS7M2- it all has to do with their workflow. With their custom LUTS they are set to shoot Sony. Also many corporate clients own multiple cameras and glass. Mostly FS7 again- for whatever reason. But this is NYC, other regions likely have different preferences.

I recently received an SBA small biz loan. What did I buy so far? A couple of Walkies (I'll buy more). A couple of new bi-color LED fresnel lights (I"ll get more too). Basically keeping it all in the bank until work comes back and the production landscape reforms- because there have been a ton of changes this year. I should mention on Feb 28, 2020 I SOLD my C300M2. Planning on replacing it, but haven't decided just yet. Waiting it out- what are we coming back to work wise? Again, I sold it because so many clients now own mid range cameras, and I felt the C300M3 was just about to drop- and the market value of my C300M2 was about to drop further.

From what you describe, will more camera bodies, live switching/ live streaming fit your business better than a single, more expensive S35 or full frame camera? Do you have a wired or wireless intercom system? A control station to monitor multiple cameras on live shoots? Wireless video, wireless focus? I still do not trust autofocus, except for specific, controlled shots. Have you used a traditional 20x EFP/ENG zoom lens with doubler? For live performance shoots I've always felt these are much better suited for that line of work than still lenses.

I want to say again owning a camera is not a magic bullet for business. Now when the Alexa first came out, and when the Red 1 first came out- YES- those cameras were magic bullets and I saw people build businesses and build careers specifically by being early adapters and owning those cameras was the foundation for their growth. Those days are long gone. There is a ton of hardware in NYC. A few years ago I shot a feature- we used a pair of Sony F55 cameras, Cooke S4 lenses, O'Connor 2575 heads/tripods, Sony monitors- the full basic filmmaking set. The producer got all that for $4,000 for the show. Total. Not per camera. That's when I realized it's only worth it to me to have a basic package for small, low budget shoots that pop up. Because it is a hassle to rent gear for every single shoot. But it's a bigger hassle to own expensive gear that doesn't work enough.
 
Also, people who bought the Alexa Mini just before the Alexa Mini LF dropped are in financial agony, if not worse. If you have the work to support a purchase- it usually works out. If you buy something as an entry ticket- it's usually a long road. Clients with experience hire you for your skill and the results you generate. Clients who hire for what gear you own usually just want a low rate. Getting paid by these clients is another discussion, so...
 
klk said:
But owning a particular camera is not a magic bullet. There are TONS of cameras in the NYC market- just check Sharegrid, Adorama, and the traditional rental houses. Clients who want you to use a C300M3 or equivalent are equally comfortable simply renting the right equipment for the job.
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It's funny to me how many dvxusers disparage the owner/op business model when so many are practicing it. (Just like truckers do.)

If you're on a larger shoot that's renting gear already, sure, rent a camera.

But for a single-day one-man band shoot? There are costs involved with renting a camera beyond the kit fee itself. Such as pick up/drop off, waiting for the package to arrive, or having something not work. Now you're being paid for a 10-hour shoot and doing 3-4 hours of pick-up/drop-off and equipment check? Owning the camera equates to making a kit fee or being able to charge a lower rate.

As for getting new clients, aside from referrals (the biggest source of new work), the only way I generate new clients is thru cold-emailing gigs postings. In which case the first filter they apply is my gear and rate. They won't click thru to look at my work if those terms are unacceptable.

Lastly, if you're going to use a camera a lot and it's not ridiculous overkill for what you do (like an Alexa LF in this case), it's worth it just to improve your footage.
 
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Honestly, one would have to be a fool to risk $10,000 - $15,000 (let alone more) on a camera thinking it may bring more work without having guaranteed connections and contracts in place.

Like if you're rich, who cares - do whatever you want with your money - but if not then understand this is a different production world, pre-COVID and now even more so post-COVID.

Smart people collect non-refundable down payments for their big projects - $5K here, $10K here, whatever - and then buy the equipment.
 
ahalpert said:
It's funny to me how many dvxusers disparage the owner/op business model when so many are practicing it. (Just like truckers do.)

If you're on a larger shoot that's renting gear already, sure, rent a camera.

But for a single-day one-man band shoot? There are costs involved with renting a camera beyond the kit fee itself. Such as pick up/drop off, waiting for the package to arrive, or having something not work. Now you're being paid for a 10-hour shoot and doing 3-4 hours of pick-up/drop-off and equipment check? Owning the camera equates to making a kit fee or being able to charge a lower rate.

As for getting new clients, aside from referrals (the biggest source of new work), the only way I generate new clients is thru cold-emailing gigs postings. In which case the first filter they apply is my gear and rate. They won't click thru to look at my work if those terms are unacceptable.

Lastly, if you're going to use a camera a lot and it's not ridiculous overkill for what you do (like an Alexa LF in this case), it's worth it just to improve your footage.
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Totally agree. I have absolutely won jobs or at least gotten interest from producers of projects I never otherwise would have had any contact with...because I owned the camera they needed (in my case an FS7mkI). Did my reel and modest resume help? No doubt, but it was my ownership of the camera that even put me in consideration -- not just having exceeded whatever those producers deemed a minimum level of competence.

And in general those haven't been among the (many) clients/producers/production cos. I've had to chase down to be paid!

I'd also add that, for myself, owning a more "serious" camera has made working on worthwhile, more elaborate passion projects MUCH more financially feasible than if I had to rent every time I wanted to shoot something for myself.
 
ahalpert said:
It's funny to me how many dvxusers disparage the owner/op business model when so many are practicing it. (Just like truckers do.)

If you're on a larger shoot that's renting gear already, sure, rent a camera.

But for a single-day one-man band shoot? There are costs involved with renting a camera beyond the kit fee itself. Such as pick up/drop off, waiting for the package to arrive, or having something not work. Now you're being paid for a 10-hour shoot and doing 3-4 hours of pick-up/drop-off and equipment check? Owning the camera equates to making a kit fee or being able to charge a lower rate.

As for getting new clients, aside from referrals (the biggest source of new work), the only way I generate new clients is thru cold-emailing gigs postings. In which case the first filter they apply is my gear and rate. They won't click thru to look at my work if those terms are unacceptable.

Lastly, if you're going to use a camera a lot and it's not ridiculous overkill for what you do (like an Alexa LF in this case), it's worth it just to improve your footage.
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mattmealer said:
Totally agree. I have absolutely won jobs or at least gotten interest from producers of projects I never otherwise would have had any contact with...because I owned the camera they needed (in my case an FS7mkI). Did my reel and modest resume help? No doubt, but it was my ownership of the camera that even put me in consideration -- not just having exceeded whatever those producers deemed a minimum level of competence.

And in general those haven't been among the (many) clients/producers/production cos. I've had to chase down to be paid!

I'd also add that, for myself, owning a more "serious" camera has made working on worthwhile, more elaborate passion projects MUCH more financially feasible than if I had to rent every time I wanted to shoot something for myself.
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I think it all depends on the market segment people serve and actual market they live/work in. I've said it before, that I have gotten calls just because of gear that I own. For better or worse, it's a fact of life in this business. It does happen. The first year that I had my F55, I got calls and jobs because I had that camera. One of them was just for a rental and it turned into, "Are you available to shoot tomorrow, too?".
 
What David W. Jones said. Don't spend money if you don't have to.
I would strongly recommend to look at it from a different angle.
Try to find out what brings you forward and spend the money for that.
If it's the C300iii - fine!
 
David W. Jones said:
Thought about starting a retirement account?
Trust me, it comes sooner than you think.
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+1

A difficult thing to commit to when the idea of "getting higher paying work" means buying new gear. But 9 times out of 10, new gear doesn't mean we we get higher paying clients, it just means that we aren't prevented from higher paying clients.

This is where the business plan and trajectory or ambition all comes into play.

But I don't know much about Valles, so I don't want to make any assessment of what they should or shouldn't do. But for the would be hypothetical lurkers and readers, it is a good reminder to set savings aside and not touch it as early as possible. There are always deals and sales and things you think you need but don't need that trickle and bleed you financially. But after 3 years, which goes fast, and Canon C3003 is just another camera, and you now have a $10K lens, and a $7K tripod, and $3K in batteries, and $1K in media, and $5K in hard drives, and $4K in monitors because a brighter one kept coming out each year.....

The nice thing about Valles scenario is: no rush, due to Covid, and it is one lump sum amount. Not the typical trickle. So they can be pretty intentional about the purchase.

The only thing I find somewhat unbelievable, is the idea that a $15K budget can absorb a $11K camera like the C3003. So many auxiliary costs push well past the round numbers in the end. So if the budget limit really is $15K, I'd consider potential other options. In particular if Multicam is something clients are using. That isn't to say what Valles should do, but just in this hypothetical scenario, those are my thoughts.
 
James0b57 said:
The only thing I find somewhat unbelievable, is the idea that a $15K budget can absorb a $11K camera like the C3003. So many auxiliary costs push well past the round numbers in the end. So if the budget limit really is $15K, I'd consider potential other options. In particular if Multicam is something clients are using. That isn't to say what Valles should do, but just in this hypothetical scenario, those are my thoughts.
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Well if he already has C100s, he can use the same rigging as he uses with those. He has the lenses. He can go multicam with his HD cams as the additional angles (potentially - I've had clients be ok with the A cam at 4K and the additional cameras at HD, it all depends). So, cam + batts + media <= $15k

The initial stipulation was that he needs to spend this money on his business. I'll agree that if he can hold the funds, it would be wise. Don't shoot until you see the whites of their eyes. (Or yes, put it in your retirement fund.)

What I do is when I'm considering buying a camera, I tell leads that I already own it (or can "provide" it) and offer the rate I would offer if I actually owned it (and not marking up for the cost to me of rental fee/time). If it works out and I rent the camera repeatedly, I buy it. If not, I don't. That routine led me to buy the C300mk1 and later the FS7, and saved me from buying the EVA1, which I was interested in but apparently none of my leads in NY were.
 
ahalpert said:
Well if he already has C100s, he can use the same rigging as he uses with those. He has the lenses. He can go multicam with his HD cams as the additional angles (potentially - I've had clients be ok with the A cam at 4K and the additional cameras at HD, it all depends). So, cam + batts + media <= $15k

The initial stipulation was that he needs to spend this money on his business. I'll agree that if he can hold the funds, it would be wise. Don't shoot until you see the whites of their eyes. (Or yes, put it in your retirement fund.)

What I do is when I'm considering buying a camera, I tell leads that I already own it (or can "provide" it) and offer the rate I would offer if I actually owned it (and not marking up for the cost to me of rental fee/time). If it works out and I rent the camera repeatedly, I buy it. If not, I don't. That routine led me to buy the C300mk1 and later the FS7, and saved me from buying the EVA1, which I was interested in but apparently none of my leads in NY were.
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Jaime Valles will have to answer all your questions. They are here, and I won't speak on their behalf.

As to the math. Cameras have a trickle effect to their expense or cost. A lot of people say a C3003 is a $10K camera. But if you look at it as a first year of ownership, that kind of changes.

Current list price online: $10,999. Which is really just USA term for $12,000, because you have to add the taxes and what ever else little auxiliary gotchas at the time of purchase. I suppose NYC may have some tax incentive option?

Going from the 24Mbps of the C100 to a Raw 120fps camera is a a couple grand difference in media and storage.

4K and raw may require a computer upgrade.

Ok, now you get used to the better image, and need a C200B as a bcam.

Sure with a $15K cash infusion a business can afford a $14,000 camera setup, but can the business absorb the other thousands of dollars that are required for that camera to shine?

 
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