shaocaholica
Well-known member
I think the term "variable prime" is a bit confusing. Its practically an oxymoron:happy:. Why not just say don't zoom while shooting?
Having issues with 7D.
- Thread starter bobafet1
- Start date
I think the term "variable prime" is a bit confusing. Its practically an oxymoron:happy:. Why not just say don't zoom while shooting?
shaocaholica
Well-known member
Its the camera being "too" smart for its own good. They could totally "fix" the flickering with a firmware update that tells the camera not to mess with the aperture while shooting. Of course the image will still darken but it will happen smoothly.
Actually, an old manual focus lens with variable aperture adapted to a Canon HDSLR will not have the flicker problem since the camera has no control over the lens' aperture. Its only EOS mount lenses with variable aperture that will have this problem.
J Davis
Veteran
Who you callin' a moron?!?!
just kiddin'IMO its a great term because it describes exactly the intended purpose without hinting at other uses that the word 'zoom' implies. Also I'm not the only one to use the phrase, I've seen around here and there.
for example: wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_lens
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Ian-T
Veteran
Ok thanks. It seems the AF version is a little softer, has some CA and introduces that colored moire that we've been seeing. Funny thing is the IS version looks sharper, more contrasty and has none of that moire.
J Davis
Veteran
I bought my 7d and my t2i as body only but last week I searched craigslist and went out and bought the 18-55 IS. It was like-new for $90, the dude only had it for 4 days and got it unwanted with his XS kit.
I will use the 18-55 IS variable aperture on time sensitive shoots where I don't have time to change between my AIS primes, also for family stuff, holidays etc.
So on the topic of old lenses I bought my treasured 50-135/3.5 AIS this morning! I spent months looking for this.
The pictures below were taken with the 18-55 f3.5-5.6 IS that I bought off craigslist last week
and check this, someone loved this so much its been chipped for nikon AF confirm
(this pic also taken with 18-55 IS at 55mm f5.0, a little soft because its hand held at s1/60 and I forgot to turn IS on)
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Wait a minute...if you're shooting at 24, 35, and 50 on an 18-55 using a 7D/T2i, your field of view crop factor (1.6x) is giving you 38.4, 56, and 80. Are those the focal lengths you were referring to as often used in film making?
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Canon EF-S 18-55mm 1:3.5-5.6 IS review
http://www.dpreview.com/lensreviews/canon_18-55_3p5-5p6_is_c16/
"Headline features
http://www.dpreview.com/lensreviews/canon_18-55_3p5-5p6_is_c16/
"Headline features
- 29-88mm equivalent focal length range
- Optical image stabilisation – 4 stops
- EF-S mount for Canon APS-C dSLRS only"
Ian-T
Veteran
I warned you about being wrong.
But to get to what J Davis' meant one would need approximately:
15mm - 22mm - 32mm sized lens. The kit lens would cover the last two.
shaocaholica
Well-known member
Its just semantics. 18mm is still 18mm, it just looks like 29mm compared to FF.
That what I was thinking. Canon's EF-S 15-85mm IS would cover all three. My knowledge of common film making lenses and their lengths is rather limited.
PerroneFord
Deals in Lead
Arri Master Primes (T1.4):
http://www.arri.de/fileadmin/media/..._Primes/2008_04-07_Master_Primes_Brochure.pdf
Arri Ultra Primes (T1.7 mostly):
http://www.arri.de/fileadmin/media/arri.com/downloads/Camera/Lenses/Ultra_Primes/ult_e.pdf
Cooke S4 (T2.0):
http://www.cookeoptics.com/cooke.nsf/products/s4i.html
Cooke Panchro (T2.8)
http://www.cookeoptics.com/cooke.nsf/products/panchro_specs.html
Panavision:
http://www.panavision.com/lenses.php
Ben_B
Veteran
It's 18mm cropped 1.6x to 29mm full frame equivelant view, IE your 18mm on the 7D will have the field of view of a 29mm on the 5D, but the other properties of an 18mm (distortion, DOF, etc.)
If the lens is designed for cropped sensors it simply means the image circle isn't large enough to fill the 5D's sensor...but if you put it on the 5D the parts that you did see would be the same as if you put a full frame 18mm lens there.
Ian-T
Veteran
Thanks Ben...I understand this. But the term crop is throwing me off.
When using a 7D/T2i we are actually shooting on a “standard Hollywood 35mm” sized (roughly) movie camera sensor (not full frame for stills), so, based on the sizes given by Mr. Davis, we are not going for the full frame 24mm, 35mm, 50mm equivalent…
I guess an example would be this: Someone wants to approximate the size of a typical Hollywood 24mm camera with their 7D/T2 using the kit 18-55mm kit lens. Well, since the sensor of the 7D/T2i is almost exactly the size of those standard 35mm movie cameras…then to get its 18mm equivalent (with this lens) just shoot at….18mm. This was the reason for my first response about the kit lens. 18mm…is 18mm. 24mm is 24…etc. for filmmaking we are not talking about Full Frame equivalents. This is why I don’t like the term “crop factor.” In what we are all doing here (film making)…that doesn’t make any sense. If we are strictly talking photography….then it would be correct to use “crop factor.” IMO
Ben_B
Veteran
Actually 35mm motion picture film has a 1.3x crop factor vs 35mm full frame photography. The 7D has a 1.6x crop factor.
If you read in American Cinematographer that they used a 50mm lens to shoot some shot, you'd need to use 38.4mm lens on your 7D to get the same FOV.
If a photographer said they used a 50mm lens on their Nikon FM2 (full frame 35mm film SLR) you'd need to use a 31.2mm lens on your 7D to get the same FOV.
steventimothy
Well-known member
Zooming sucks anyway, unless you're thinking of remaking a '70s era chop-socky or blaxploitation movie.
(Although now that I think about it, it must have taken some mofo camera ops (and glass) to do some of those superquick wide to extreme closeup zooms they used to do back in the day.)
(Although now that I think about it, it must have taken some mofo camera ops (and glass) to do some of those superquick wide to extreme closeup zooms they used to do back in the day.)
Ian-T
Veteran
Ok I get it. So Canon’s latest offering, 1D Mark lV would be the camera that fits my scenario better (I believe it’s a 1.3 crop vs. FF)?
Well it seems this answers Koui’s question of whether the kit lens would cover standard 35’s 24mm, 35mm, and 50mm sizes. On the 7D you would need 18mm, 27mm and 38mm.
Edit: Now I know what lens size to look for. My 50mm seems too....narrow sometimes.
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J Davis
Veteran
Its important to try and stop thinking like a still photographer and stop comparing to Full Frame.
There is no point saying 'use a 15mm to get the equivalent of 24mm' as this makes no sense at all.
When I said 24mm, 35mm and 50mm were common focal lengths used in film making I was referring to the field of view that
you would get when using these focal lengths on super 35 film (ie most hollywood blockbusters !!!)
Now super 35 film is almost identical in size to the aps-c sensor in the 7d and the t2i. So if you put the t2i kit lens on a t2i and shoot at 24mm, 35mm and 50mm
you will be getting approx the same field of view that a hollywood movie would be shooting as if they were using those focal lengths on super 35 film.
So please stop comparing to full frame. Its pointless. No hollywood film is shot full frame.
You are only confusing yourselves.
Use these focal lengths on an aps-c sensor and familiarize yourself with the field of view.
Then you will then be spot on.
edit:
for reference look at these rental PL mount Zeiss Super Speeds and look at their focal lengths
http://www.fletch.com/rentalzeisssuperspeed.html
and here is another one but this time with rental rates
http://www.abelcine.com/store/35mm-Prime-Lenses/?page=2
as you can see the zeiss super speeds are 18mm, 25mm, 35mm, 50mm, 65mm, 85mm
Now when using still lenses I use 24mm, 35mm, 50mm primes and a zoom 50-135/3.5 to cover 65mm, 85mm and 100+
There is no point saying 'use a 15mm to get the equivalent of 24mm' as this makes no sense at all.
When I said 24mm, 35mm and 50mm were common focal lengths used in film making I was referring to the field of view that
you would get when using these focal lengths on super 35 film (ie most hollywood blockbusters !!!)
Now super 35 film is almost identical in size to the aps-c sensor in the 7d and the t2i. So if you put the t2i kit lens on a t2i and shoot at 24mm, 35mm and 50mm
you will be getting approx the same field of view that a hollywood movie would be shooting as if they were using those focal lengths on super 35 film.
So please stop comparing to full frame. Its pointless. No hollywood film is shot full frame.
You are only confusing yourselves.
Use these focal lengths on an aps-c sensor and familiarize yourself with the field of view.
Then you will then be spot on.
edit:
for reference look at these rental PL mount Zeiss Super Speeds and look at their focal lengths
http://www.fletch.com/rentalzeisssuperspeed.html
and here is another one but this time with rental rates
http://www.abelcine.com/store/35mm-Prime-Lenses/?page=2
as you can see the zeiss super speeds are 18mm, 25mm, 35mm, 50mm, 65mm, 85mm
Now when using still lenses I use 24mm, 35mm, 50mm primes and a zoom 50-135/3.5 to cover 65mm, 85mm and 100+
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J Davis
Veteran
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_35
super 35 four perf film is 24.89mm × 18.66mm
t2i
aps-c sensor 22.3mm x 14.9mm
7d
aps-c sensor 22.3mm × 14.9mm
so why on earth would you want to compare to full frame?
1.6 crop factor is for still photography, are we not filmmakers? :thumbsup: :beer:
super 35 four perf film is 24.89mm × 18.66mm
t2i
aps-c sensor 22.3mm x 14.9mm
7d
aps-c sensor 22.3mm × 14.9mm
so why on earth would you want to compare to full frame?
1.6 crop factor is for still photography, are we not filmmakers? :thumbsup: :beer:
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