+1 on this.
I find it very important to lower the sharpness and contras and sat say to -4
GH1 firmware research volunteers required
- Thread starter Vitaliy Kiselev
- Start date
+1 on this.
I find it very important to lower the sharpness and contras and sat say to -4
Bitrates
Bitrates
To give a proper answer... I think tester13 means that due to each camera being a different codec (closest being both Sony's since HDV is flavor of mpeg2), it's hard to extrapolate how certain specs pertain to actual shooting quality... and thus being of limited relativity. There's alot of factors that go into the nuances of encoder settings.. particularly if there's any variable bitrate or variations in framerate involved. For instance, H.264 at 42mbps at 1080_30p should by all accounts blow away our best 70mbps MJPEG results in all situations except maybe when there's crazy motion... but even then that may not always be the case depending on how well or how crappy that H.264 realtime encoding process is. Panasonics TM700 has 28mbps 1080p -60P!- footage that looks amazing in terms of compression... motion seems pretty good from what I've seen too.
I believe, if I'm not mistaken, Tester13 has infered the GH1s AVCHD issues go a bit beyond a lack of bitrate (although more bitrate certainly helps).. there's GOP factors amongst other things. For instance, if the TM700 gets great 1080p_60p footage at 28mbps... it's reasonable to think that if the GH1 had the exact same encoding implementation that it should have decent 1080p_24p since it uses more then half that bitrate and less then half the framerate... but apparently the implementation is different and this is not that case. Then again you also have to factor in that 24p should have more changes frame to frame then 60p and when your dealing with interframe compression that's also a big factor.
Also, theoretically things like banding and noise level differences could have an impact on the overall quality of encodes on different cameras, since cleaner footage has less uneccesary detail thus it should compress/encode better. I've found alot (though perhaps not all) of recent Panasonic models to be consistently cleaner then many Canons in terms of video noise... particularly at low lux.
It's reasonable to believe the GH2, even if it doesn't have higher bitrates (which it probably will), will still have better encoding algorithms for AVCHD... similar to other Panasonic cameras like the TM700 (which is a consumer camcorder btw).
Bitrates
To give a proper answer... I think tester13 means that due to each camera being a different codec (closest being both Sony's since HDV is flavor of mpeg2), it's hard to extrapolate how certain specs pertain to actual shooting quality... and thus being of limited relativity. There's alot of factors that go into the nuances of encoder settings.. particularly if there's any variable bitrate or variations in framerate involved. For instance, H.264 at 42mbps at 1080_30p should by all accounts blow away our best 70mbps MJPEG results in all situations except maybe when there's crazy motion... but even then that may not always be the case depending on how well or how crappy that H.264 realtime encoding process is. Panasonics TM700 has 28mbps 1080p -60P!- footage that looks amazing in terms of compression... motion seems pretty good from what I've seen too.
I believe, if I'm not mistaken, Tester13 has infered the GH1s AVCHD issues go a bit beyond a lack of bitrate (although more bitrate certainly helps).. there's GOP factors amongst other things. For instance, if the TM700 gets great 1080p_60p footage at 28mbps... it's reasonable to think that if the GH1 had the exact same encoding implementation that it should have decent 1080p_24p since it uses more then half that bitrate and less then half the framerate... but apparently the implementation is different and this is not that case. Then again you also have to factor in that 24p should have more changes frame to frame then 60p and when your dealing with interframe compression that's also a big factor.
Also, theoretically things like banding and noise level differences could have an impact on the overall quality of encodes on different cameras, since cleaner footage has less uneccesary detail thus it should compress/encode better. I've found alot (though perhaps not all) of recent Panasonic models to be consistently cleaner then many Canons in terms of video noise... particularly at low lux.
It's reasonable to believe the GH2, even if it doesn't have higher bitrates (which it probably will), will still have better encoding algorithms for AVCHD... similar to other Panasonic cameras like the TM700 (which is a consumer camcorder btw).
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I was processing footage in AE in a higher colorspace. I didn't try it with mjpeg, but I did do it with avchd files and it helped to counteract some of the banding in gradients. I haven't tried it with mjpeg yet.
Not entirely true... though maybe half true. The overall FAT32 file limitation on the GH1 is 4GB. Someone mentioned the GH1 spanning 2GB ACVHD clips and this is not the case.. it spans 4GB (3.99 GB to be exact) clips.. at least according to all the footage I have taken.
But you may be half right... as you mentioned there being alot of old code... perhaps the MJPEG limitation is there due to old FAT16 code they never bothered updating... though then again, it could be some entirely other reason we have not thought about.
Oh, I just remembered that while we call this mjpeg, it's really photojpeg which is much more efficient.
This is worth reading to see just how efficient. Click on 4:2:2C (4:2:2 Compressed Codec Formats) to read about the difference between mjpeg and photojpeg.
http://codecs.onerivermedia.com/
And does anyone know what colorspace the GH1 shoots in? Is there an option for Adobe RGB within camera? Or are there no settings in the menus?
This is worth reading to see just how efficient. Click on 4:2:2C (4:2:2 Compressed Codec Formats) to read about the difference between mjpeg and photojpeg.
http://codecs.onerivermedia.com/
And does anyone know what colorspace the GH1 shoots in? Is there an option for Adobe RGB within camera? Or are there no settings in the menus?
http://codecs.onerivermedia.com/
And does anyone know what colorspace the GH1 shoots in? Is there an option for Adobe RGB within camera? Or are there no settings in the menus?
[/quote]
Adobe color space option is available on the menu. Page 122.
And does anyone know what colorspace the GH1 shoots in? Is there an option for Adobe RGB within camera? Or are there no settings in the menus?
[/quote]
Adobe color space option is available on the menu. Page 122.
Thanks, is this what most people shoot in? Even just rerendering in after effects to Adobe RGB flattens that over contrasty image making it look more natural. I'd definitely like to see a shot with contrast dialed all the way down and set to Adobe RGB. Hopefully it's possible to flatten image more and overcome the baked in look.
alignment1
Well-known member
I always thought that this was for stills only, as you need to put the dial on 'M' to make adjustment to colorspace.
This is great! I just did a quick test- Adobe RGB gave me much more detail in what would have been blown out whites in sRGB---hence I think it's flatter!!:shocked:
We should take this conversation to the 'Baked In" thread
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=212460
Cheers thanks Isaac!
alignment1
Well-known member
Actually I did too- I think it was a rep from NAB or something- anyhow...
just did a couple more tests---difference for SURE!!! Adobe RGB is the way!!!!
I'm in a red room- (My office)- Huge difference- Mind you, I'm shooting 'Nostalgic' (supposed least contrasty setting) Cont. -2 / Sharp +1 / Sat. 0 / NR -2.
But now w/ Adobe RGB it's even flatter!! It makes my sRGB look like a canon:evil:
Yoohooo this cam gets better and better! Can't wait for these FW's to be concrete!
Essami
Well-known member
I can confirm that theres a difference too. Before getting too excited we should look into what actually happens and if there really is more info there or is it something that a simple color space change can do in post as well, ie. is there actually more info or is our computer or NLE showing it differently so it appears its flatter.
Sami
PS. good idea to start a new thread on this one!!! Maybe OP should do it?
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alignment1
Well-known member
We were discussing the usefulness of Tester13 taking time away from his busy schedule and continued GH1 work to look into changing the color space on the GH1. This includes the thought that simple changes in setup might circumvent his need to divert from his current work. How is that NOT on topic?
Excuse me for my English - it is terrible!
I tested many versions bitrate in AVCHD, but to me I not seemed that to a type of a difference. Some of pictures look superb, but some pictures awfully - like mobile phone camera. AVCHD patch is a dark horse. But patch for MJPEG it very well looks. Thanks for your work Tester13, do not surrender!
I tested many versions bitrate in AVCHD, but to me I not seemed that to a type of a difference. Some of pictures look superb, but some pictures awfully - like mobile phone camera. AVCHD patch is a dark horse. But patch for MJPEG it very well looks. Thanks for your work Tester13, do not surrender!
Hehe Thanks! :engel017:
yeah I just realised after posting!
Im a noob so forgive me! The points you guys made were actually not completely out of topic!
Have been reading through the thread and its hard to keep track how the progress is going sometimes.
I think what the tester is doing is great stuff...just hope that he can get around the main issues with AVCHD codec (or making Mjpeg even better as I use it most nowadays) and that things dont go too off track.
The "mud/breakup" issue is the only real negative on the gh1...fixing this would be perfect.
Can someone running the mjpeg/photojpeg hack do me a favor?
Since I don't have a camera I want to get a hold of mjpeg footage shot AdobeRGB and with contrast and sharpness dialed all the way down to zero or however far they go. I just need to see something well exposed, outside or inside at a higher bitrate. ( Whichever high bitrate is stable) I'm just doing some post tests and could use the neutral footage. You can PM me directly if you don't want to take this thread further off topic.
:dankk2:
/BACK ON TOPIC.
Since I don't have a camera I want to get a hold of mjpeg footage shot AdobeRGB and with contrast and sharpness dialed all the way down to zero or however far they go. I just need to see something well exposed, outside or inside at a higher bitrate. ( Whichever high bitrate is stable) I'm just doing some post tests and could use the neutral footage. You can PM me directly if you don't want to take this thread further off topic.
:dankk2:
/BACK ON TOPIC.
PappasArts
Veteran
Did some more testing with the high bit rate Nurbs posted. Got 107Mbits. However my Extreme class 10 just can't go beyond 5 secs on that. We need class 20....... Whenever that will be.. I notice that 90Mbits is to much as well. There just isn't enough head room with these cards for that. However clips that are 70ish Mbits seem to go with out data stop by camera. Good thing is cards get better, and there might be even higher end pro level ones with sustained data writes at 15+.
I need a setting that has a lower top end bit rate like 70ish. Any suggested ones?
Here is a frame from footage shot today in CDM Newport Beach with Anamorphic at 19mm; and the file was at a 70Mbits data rate.
Michael Pappas
http://www.pbase.com/Arrfilms
Anamorphic GH1 Frames with high bit codec
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=2006938&postcount=1956
I need a setting that has a lower top end bit rate like 70ish. Any suggested ones?
Here is a frame from footage shot today in CDM Newport Beach with Anamorphic at 19mm; and the file was at a 70Mbits data rate.
Michael Pappas
http://www.pbase.com/Arrfilms
Anamorphic GH1 Frames with high bit codec
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=2006938&postcount=1956
Attachments
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John Caballero
Veteran
That was mjpeg?
PappasArts
Veteran
Yes, that was 720 mjpeg.
These were from yesterday.
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=2006938&postcount=1956
.