FS7: FS7 successor (rumours/expectations)

LennyLevy said:
When Juan Martinez was still at Sony he was very active in soliciting the input of users on what improvements they would like on the FS7. Likewise Sony still had their user forum. However even back then Juan implied to me that the design group was in their own world and that insularity might have increased even more. Sure seems apparent in this "big update" when there are plenty of small inexpensive changes that would improve the functionality of the camera a great deal. Admittedly though I don't have any inside info. Doubt they'll sell a lot of these - but perhaps they make more sense in Japan?
Click to expand...

juan martinez at sony was a great guy.

a true advocate, plus he was more than willing to engage in conversation about gear and the business.

is he no longer with sony?

that would be a shame.

i wish him well. he was a good one.

thumbs up.

rob
smalltalk productions/nyc
 
2 or 3 years ago ( sorry i can't remember anymore ) I went to the Sony booth at NAB looking to say hi to Juan and discovered that both he and Mel Medina (who was cut from the same cloth) had both been dropped and the impression I got was that their roles had not been replaced along with some kind of change in management policy. I don't know if the latter info was accurate, but I definitely got the impression that the days of their outreach to customers was over. Hopefully I'm wrong about that , but it was what I read between the lines from talking to people as I couldn't get a name for who was replacing either of them.

I first encountered Juan when he noticed a post from me on DVX User about an odd problem I had with Sony Content Browser and the EX-1. He contacted me personally and asked me to send him my files . Then a month later got back to me to say that the problem was fixed in the new version. I was impressed!. After that I found him incredibly helpful whenever I had an issue. He directed me to Mel Medina when the F3 came out and Mel was very similar.

When the FS7 came out I got a phone call out of the blue from Juan saying he was on his way to Japan to meet with the designers and wanted feedback from users on what changes they would like to see. Spent over a half hour on the phone just talking tech. Now I'm just an average user - no Alister Chapman. I suspect that Sony has abandoned that kind of customer service these days, but hopefully I'm mistaken.
 
bengiles said:
.... Baffling design decision made by Sony, 5 years into the product life. Even more so that you have to buy the whole bloated kit...
Click to expand...
IMO, it's just a way for them squeeze the last ounce of life of the product before it's put to pasture. There's got to be something else on the way, from Sony or someone else, in this market niche.
 
Quote from Sony 2019:
From the ultra compact RX0 II to the top-of-the-line full-frame #SonyVENICE cinema camera, Sony's got it all.

So if they got it all there's no need to do more.
 
LennyLevy said:
I suspect that Sony has abandoned that kind of customer service these days, but hopefully I'm mistaken.
Click to expand...

I think it's pretty obvious Sony have taken the 5 year road map approach, rolling out features in accordance to the schedule. It's a core concept of Lean, to eliminate waste and add value. What's not Lean is losing customer centric focus, foregoing social media opportunities as they have done. Ironic because Lean and Kaizen are concepts invented by the Japanese.
 
J.Brown said:
Quote from Sony 2019:
From the ultra compact RX0 II to the top-of-the-line full-frame #SonyVENICE cinema camera, Sony's got it all.

So if they got it all there's no need to do more.
Click to expand...

Venice is top of the line cinema cam, but I bet their new 8K network broadcast cam is more costly.
 
Tom Roper said:
Venice is top of the line cinema cam, but I bet their new 8K network broadcast cam is more costly.
Click to expand...

Broadcast studio/OB cams have always been in the six figure realm with high ratio(90x-100x+) zoom box lenses costing another six($100K-$250k+).
 
Howdy! I thought I'd comment on my preferences for a Sony FS7 Mark III Camera.
I've been shooting camera for thirty years and have no interest in a Full Frame sensor.
I purchased my FS7 for a lot of great reasons and VistaVision was not one of them.


Personally, the four main features that would drive me to upgrade are (in order of importance)
1. Global Shutter
2. Dual ISO Recording
3. Improved Auto-Focus with Face & Eye Detection.
4. Adding the latest Codec such as XCDA, XEVC, 480MBPS etc.

A 6K sensor that down samples to 4K would be mighty fine, but NOT if it prevents the possibility of a Global Shutter.
I don't actually want 8K files to deal with, lol!

While you're at it Sony, the Power ON/Off Switch on the camera does not inspire confidence, (feels like a cheap Radio Shack part).

Many of you have made some great suggestions, such as the ability to control audio channels 3 & 4 which would be awesome.
Loved the ideas about adding a second intelligent Hotshoe in back. (TWO dual-channel wireless receivers possible for 4 channels, yum).

While I have no problem with the viewfinder/monitor itself, I always keep it plugged-in in order to minimize stress on its unique and delicate connector.
Yes, the cable could also be a little bit longer too. it would be great to sell a Sony OLED Viewfinder with the same plug for a reasonable price.
Please add the LUT name somewhere in the viewfinder.

ProRes Raw seems like a good option too.

I'm not really using timecode inputs & outputs at all lately. I'm happy with the present S&Q motion. (audio on slow-mo, really?)

Anyway, I Love my FS7 Mark I and mainly use it for dramatic narrative, (TV, Pilots, Features, Web Series) and the occasional music video.
As a fulltime professional DP I guess I'm supposed to eschew Auto-Focus, but I actually do use it quite a lot these days and would really like Face & Eye Detection,
especially for gimbal work. (the less motors and gizmos the better, I like to keep the camera as stripped down as possible and keep things simple).

Anyway, thanks for this great thread, (Hope You're Listening Sony) and Best Wishes!


Cynthia Webster
Director of Photography
CynthiaCinema@gmail.com


Did I Mention GLOBAL SHUTTER?
 
Cynthia Webster said:
(audio on slow-mo, really?)
Click to expand...

For sure. Something like this 80% of the shots are slomo, and the audio is basically reconstructed.
https://vimeo.com/273347902

Precedure.. Redarrows show.. 2 mins.
1 min shoot red arrows
10seconds, disengage slo mo
50s record audio
edit - patch together some audio that kind of fits.

The plane geeks would probably turn in thier graves knowing that the Spitfire is not seen to the noise of a Merlin engine.

Same with running races, or much other sport.. the good noise (cheers, starting gun, whatever) at the exact moment you want to be doing hero slo mo.

Even if you have (and I do) a sound recorder, synching it all in post is a drag.. having audio on slomo would be awesome.
I mean ramping or basically filming 50p and drop framing to 25 is pretty much standard on 'adrenaline' event work.

On a side note doing this, especially the opening line from the commentator, without functional cache record is a nightmare. Cache record is lost upon disengagement of slomo.. another minor but annoying failing of the FS7.
 
Last edited:
Lack of TC in has to be the main draw back these days .. personally I wouldn't worry about global shutter unless I did a lot of weddings and red carpet .. these days there is not a decent sound recordist on the planet that isn't using some form of Sound Devices .. its no longer a high end only production thing.. being freed from a cable or worrying /having to monitor a wireless hop is the best thing since Aatons /Nagra,s .. its how it should be .. better for post, iso track etc ,better in the field, more back up .. I would never want to go back.. presumably Sony know this too but want to sell the ugly box on the back and keep it one step away from the f5.. ditto the crap EVF.. wonder if they will sell the new kit one (same as f5/55) separately .. I,ll bet Zacuto is hoping they dont
 
I agree, audio on slo-mo would be HUGE and fairly trivial for all manufacturers to implement. Not for some drawn-out iPhone like sound, but to be able to take the slo-mo and convert to real-time in post and have useable audio of something that may have been said or a sound that is needed.
 
Never thought about the need for a Global Shutter on weddings, I have no experience shooting them but respect the discipline of "having only one shot at getting things right".

Shooting action films is the main reason that I long for a global shutter: Martial Arts, Whip Pans, Car Chases, Stunts, Helicopters, Planes, Trains, and Race Cars.
A Global Shutter would also be helpful for filming fast moving machinery in a factory for example, filming from a zip line, and probably ideal for shooting sports.
I believe that having it would be a further reason for clients to request someone with an FS7 over other cameras...
 
One thing I have done, Sam, and it was probably almost 3 years ago now - so might need to confirm - but I believe I was able to record audio from HDMI out to PIX recorder to record both audio & video while over cranking on my FS7. So internally shooting, say 100fps - while outputting 24fps signal from HDMI to the PIXE5 - allowed me have "real-time" audio & video on the ProRes files being recorded on the monitor while simultaneously getting slo-mo XAVC files.
 
"I'm guessing he mentioned that because of stills guys/girls using flash at the same time. "

Ah... Makes perfect sense. Thank you for that tidbit.

Hear that Sony, how can we shoot proper weddings and red carpet events, and action films, and motorized products, and machinery without a Global Shutter?!
(Besides, Blackmagic has it, gotta' keep up with the Joneses!)
 
Cynthia Webster said:
Never thought about the need for a Global Shutter on weddings, I have no experience shooting them but respect the discipline of "having only one shot at getting things right".

Shooting action films is the main reason that I long for a global shutter: Martial Arts, Whip Pans, Car Chases, Stunts, Helicopters, Planes, Trains, and Race Cars.
A Global Shutter would also be helpful for filming fast moving machinery in a factory for example, filming from a zip line, and probably ideal for shooting sports.
I believe that having it would be a further reason for clients to request someone with an FS7 over other cameras...
Click to expand...

Sony has the global shutter technology for use in machine vision for high speed factory automation equipment so I don't think it will be too long before we see in in general video imaging:

http://sonyaddict.com/2019/03/18/sony-develops-a-stacked-cmos-image-sensor-technology/

Chris Young
 
Cynthia Webster said:
"I'm guessing he mentioned that because of stills guys/girls using flash at the same time. "

Ah... Makes perfect sense. Thank you for that tidbit.

Hear that Sony, how can we shoot proper weddings and red carpet events, and action films, and motorized products, and machinery without a Global Shutter?!
(Besides, Blackmagic has it, gotta' keep up with the Joneses!)
Click to expand...

Sony F55 is Global.

One of the many reasons I didnt buy the F5 was that I would not be able to attend my local music show (Glastonbury) without embarrasing stripes in my images from the light show. I didnt fancy spending £15g on a camera that I couldnt take to the local show. For £7g I rode the compromise.

Cynthia - you really are describing the F55.
 
markfpv said:
One thing I have done, Sam, and it was probably almost 3 years ago now - so might need to confirm - but I believe I was able to record audio from HDMI out to PIX recorder to record both audio & video while over cranking on my FS7. So internally shooting, say 100fps - while outputting 24fps signal from HDMI to the PIXE5 - allowed me have "real-time" audio & video on the ProRes files being recorded on the monitor while simultaneously getting slo-mo XAVC files.
Click to expand...

Thats interesting and could be very handy information!

I dont think Id use it - until I do. Actually in that flying film I had my EX1 doing audio and a static wide - once I added a second box like the PIX I might as well add a lens to that box.. ex1 :)
 
Cynthia Webster said:
(Besides, Blackmagic has it, gotta' keep up with the Joneses!)
Click to expand...

They only made/used one (but three cameras have the same one; BMPC, URSA, URSA Mini 4K) and its DR suffered tremendously while also having a max ISO of 400.

The Micro Cinema was supposed to have it too, but Grant mentioned at the time (2-3 years ago) that they just couldn't get it functioning to their standards (paraphrasing).

What Sony has offered for years is pretty remarkable.
 
...and of course in the meantime viewers have gotten so used to seeing flash banding on TMZ and rolling shutter effects in action movies and fast pans that most of the producers I work for don't think that it's an issue anymore - or that spending extra $$$ for a global shutter camera is worth it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top