editing 4K at home...

filmmaker1977 said:
and if you don't know to choose, one day you can't follow where the difference is..
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Yes, it is Prof! A great lesson. I know this man very well! He's a genius!

Sorry Prof but now that's my turn and it would be impossible to be :lipsrseal.
 
it wasn't necessary.. again.. i'd prefer to say:
'and if you cannot choose, one day blablabla..'

4k online at home is the red film art way.. thx jim, thx Mr.Newman and i hope to say one day thx to Graeme too.. :thumbsup:
 
don't be silly man!

let the thread breathes.. here is a good input:
Jason Rodriguez said:
The CineForm RAW approach is actually quite easy, no technical wizardry required. You just go from the camera, through REDCINE, to CineForm RAW codec (render to that codec). From there you can online with 4K on a decent modern machine (sounds like a Pentium D Extreme Edition or better from what David Newman said).



I understand that, and apologize if I was sending the discussion OT. The point I was trying to make was that a decent modern machine, including a Pentium D Extreme Edition, is fairly in-expensive, and will get you 4K real-time "online" editing with CineForm RAW. Some users were noting that they simply can't afford a new system after purchasing a RED, and I was just wondering why that might be the case when a computer system is a very small percentage of a functional RED package.

Again, I humbly apologize if I've offended anyone here . . . I realize that everyone is in a different boat.

BTW, I also wanted to point out real quickly though that if your computer system is too old, you might be spending quite a bit of time rendering out dailies, and an upgrade may still be a smart idea . . . I know this is an arbitrary number that may have no basis in reality, but theoretically if it takes one second to render 1 frame of 4K REDCODE RAW to whatever offline/online codec you're planning on using, it will take 24 hours to render 1-shot hour of REDCODE RAW.
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Mr. Newman posted 10x, now Mr Rodriguez you came with 24x.. it's quite different.. we'd like to have a better idea..

Mr Nattress, any guess?
 
Ok, so you'll read the Redcode RAW data directly in your future Cineform RAW conversion product?
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Just as a clarification . . . you will render in REDCINE *to* CineForm RAW as a codec choice . . . you could render to DVCProHD, Uncompressed, etc., but then you won't be getting the benefits of real-time 4K on a desktop machine without hard-drive arrays, etc. (and you won't be maintaining the RAW data).

But I'm assuming (and David Newman would have to clarifty this) you'd still just use REDCINE as-is, just render to a different codec. And in this case the "render" is just re-wrapping and re-compression of the RAW data, not a demosaic, recompression, and conversion to RGB or YUV which looses all the RAW data.
 
Well that depends on what you mean by 4k online.
If you want to end up with a final 4k uncompressed master, and wish to play that back at fullscreen...NO!
 
Mr. Newman posted 10x, now Mr Rodriguez you came with 24x.. it's quite different.. we'd like to have a better idea..
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Remember, it's just an arbitrary number . . . I'm sure on a *modern* machine that 10x or less would be the norm, but if you have a Pentium 3.0Ghz or some single Pentium 4 machine that you used for all your DV work and it's two or more years old, you may be looking at 1 second per frame to render . . . and why I was noting that machine upgrades may be in-line for some people on this list . . .
 
You right anders. I was meaning the 4k online wich needs a bitrate of 27MB. that external lacie claims it goes up to 300MB. i was wondering if the solution could be so simple

p.s. Your avatar is quite scary, it remembers me the girls in The devil's advocate
 
Peter Murphy said:
so basically you have to be a tech whiz if you want to edit with this kind of footage.
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You have to be a tech whiz to understand all the complex conjecture about how we'll edit RED. Clearly, these guys know their stuff on here, and I'll never understand half of it. But like you Peter Murphy, I suspect we'll all figure it out when the time comes. I'm betting it won't be all that technically challenging TO USE (but obviously technically challening to design and program!), and we end-users will figure it out like we figured out everything else we've had to learn to make digital films. I'm just extremely (EXTREMELY!) heartened to learn that 4K is something we'll be able to manage on a good home editing system!
 
Schmovies production said:
You right anders. I was meaning the 4k online wich needs a bitrate of 27MB. that external lacie claims it goes up to 300MB. i was wondering if the solution could be so simple
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In the drive within the Lacie case are only likely to sustain 40-50MBytes/s over the full capacity of the disk. So it will be sufficient for RT cuts and transitions but not sustained dual stream. Two SATA drives in RAID-O buys you with plenty of bandwidth for compressed real-time work (whatever the resolution.)
 
David, with the Cineform RAW workflow, what happens when you render something in your timeline, will you reder back to Cineform RAW or a RGB codec (Cineform)?.
 
Anders Holck said:
David, with the Cineform RAW workflow, what happens when you render something in your timeline, will you reder back to Cineform RAW or a RGB codec (Cineform)?.
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You almost never want to render back to a RAW format as it only samples one third of a 4:4:4 color space (fine for aquistion, not for rendered composites.) We render to 10-bit CineForm Intermediate (our existing visually lossless post-production format.) You can use CineForm RAW and CineForm Intermediate interchangably on the timeline. It all works seamlessly.
 
Mr. Newman -- any word on when the Quicktime versions will be ready. We're gearing up for a feature to be shot in March and would really love to use Cineform as our acquisition format.
 
Robert,

By March we will have Quicktime throughout -- so no issue with your feature. The question is how soon. Expect anouncements in about a month for QuickTime support from CineForm.
 
Anders Holck said:
Ok, I figured that would be the case. What's the bitrate for Cineform Intermediate at 10 bit 4 k?
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Very good question as it does impact the workflow/disk requirements. A 27MB/s CineForm RAW would bump to around 40-45MB/s as a 4k CineForm Intermediate. And for comparison for the many who will do a lot at 2k or 1080p work -- 2k CineForm RAW would average 12MB/s and as a 2K CineForm Intermediate average 20MB/s.
 
David Newman said:
Robert,

By March we will have Quicktime throughout -- so no issue with your feature. The question is how soon. Expect anouncements in about a month for QuickTime support from CineForm.
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Fantastic news. Thank you. One more question. If our capture stations are Kona or BM equipped PCs, will we be able to take the acquired footage and port them over to our FCP editing stations?
 
Robert Sanders said:
Fantastic news. Thank you. One more question. If our capture stations are Kona or BM equipped PCs, will we be able to take the acquired footage and port them over to our FCP editing stations?
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Yes, that is the idea. Completely interchange media between PC and Mac. Note: we currently only support AJA cards for real-time ingest.
 
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