I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. The Cion, if it ever materializes, is about frame rates, SDI, XLR, and, with its shoulder-mount form factor, run 'n' gun. It has the option of ProRes, which slots into production pipelines fairly readily, or raw, which is more fiddly. At about six pounds, it's not the Ursa, which is in Alexa territory weight-wise. I don't think anyone would prefer a 4K camera that was limited to XAVC-S. Long-GOP 10-bit 4:2:2 XAVC, maybe. But Sony could put that in a 4K version of the EA50, although that would be too similar to the FS700 (I think the EA50 might be a little longer).
E-mount FS700II 4K camcorder?
- Thread starter freiheit
- Start date
sunnyjimfilms
Well-known member
Yeah the Cion pretty much has it all going on for me, apart from the lack of built in ND's and the fact that it's PL mount only. This illustrates the point that there is no such thing as a perfect camera. Maybe Sony should combine the best elements of the FS700 with the F5 into one camera, perhaps that's what this is.
Maybe, but if Sony wants to sew up the 4K market, it needs a cheaper APS-c/s35 model. Maybe take the Z100's recording capability (both intra and long GOP) and the F55's global-shutter sensor. I still would like to see a raw option.
You're right that the Cion has a lot more going for it, but it still doesn't approach the frame rates like 1080p 240fps that the FS700 can capture internally to a cheap SD card. That's what I'm referring to. Not using external recorders, expensive media, etc. The Cion is definitely catering toward "film"-types. People who want ProRes as a bare minimum, RAW ideally (which the Cion can output). On the other hand, I would be willing to bet 75-80% of FS700 owner/shooters will only shoot to SD and will never use an external recorder or RAW.
cckid
Well-known member
Cion could be a winner if it had internal nd filters, and internal high frame recording options in 2k and 4k...I hope their delay in shipping is due to some last minute changes...however sony is going very strong lately...fs 700 despite beeing a brick - which I actually like still offers a great package...the upcoming camera will have enough to delight everyone...for everyone who will want the raw option I am sure that odyssey 7q will do the trick...
alaskacameradude
Veteran
The nice thing about the FS700 is that it offers both. With the 7Q it can be a 'film' type
camera. But like you say, for most corporate type stuff, just shooting to the SD card
is great. You can fit a 3 hours on a 32 gig card. It's light enough to go on most sliders
gives you all kinds of frame rates plus don't underestimate built in NDs for this type of
shooting (I don't think the Cion has these). I had an FS100 and loved the image....but
no so fond of all the ND filter changing that had to happen every time I changed a lens,
although the Xume system helped a little. My main reason for going to the FS700
was built in NDs. All the extra frame rates were just a really nice bonus. But when you
have 30 minutes in someone's business to shoot b-roll for a corporate film, not fiddling
with NDs can be a lifesaver. It's like the baby F55 in that it does the same stuff, at a lower
internal quality. For a lot of people it's the 'good enough' camera. I think it's especially
good for small one person 'owner op' businesses. If you have a client with a 3-5 k budget,
you can give them something nice for their website/social media.....without a Epic/F55
budget.
cuervo
Veteran
I took a look at Cion and Ursa, but, not for long. The URSA is a beast...way too heavy and unwieldly for my uses. Cion looks good except the exclusive PL mount is a show stopper for me. I have way too much invested in Canon EOS glass to forsake that hardware. And, it seems PL to EOS adapters are an engineering near-impossibility.
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
MTF have a nikkor adapter for the Coin?
Marino215
Well-known member
I will be shocked if this XDCAM shoots RAW 12/14 bit under 10 g's. Maybe with a recorder, but I don't think Sony will be that generous. (if it does i will consider it) Here's my guess, Sony has a bottom line, they're not worried about f55 sales because to the ones who are buying them for productions don't care about the price. Only owner/ops do, so that leaves the f5 in a precarious position in the Sony line up. The fs700/7q may be just as good and in some areas even better than the f5. BUT with the f5/r5 recorder attached then the fs700 looses. (in every which way) I feel Sonys position says "either buy this internal 4k XDCAM or if you want the better 4k image for your f5 then you must buy the r5 recorder for it". Hey why not? You will have a better more capable camera image wise. IMHO the selling point to the XDCAM is the features, good design, manageable 4k internal and perhaps the great A7s sensor. I highly doubt Sony will cannibalize the F/FS line with this camera. The f5 is an amazing camera. So is the fs700/7q combo and I think this new guy will sit in the middle very nicely. If you want the most pristine image off a sensor then the recorder option is the only way to go. If you want comfort, easy workflow, internal 4k then it's the XDCAM. Im thinking this is going to be a great documentary/reality camera, an area where you would never shoot RAW. For those of us who love RAW and now can't live without it (I'm sure not many of us) then we'll still need the fs700 combos and the f5's with the r5. Who really knows yet? Just my 2 cents 
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
I will be shocked if it has raw too.. but looking at stills cams raw was a top end option for some years and now is standard on cams from the Nex5 up and many other small cameras in the $700 range.
The big 'problem' of the F5 is the lack of 4k and a manag-able data rate. (with 'legal' all files)
The big 'problem' of the F5 is the lack of 4k and a manag-able data rate. (with 'legal' all files)
Marino215
Well-known member
If it follows that path and we can get what the f5 offers and then some for a cheaper price I would consider this camera. If my only option at 12 bit RAW is through the fs700/7q combo then I'll hold on to mine a little longer before making my next move. If Sonys coming out with this XDCAM now, imagine what a year will bring. Think about it like this too, maybe they know something we don't, maybe a competitor is coming out with the "holy grail" camera and they're trying to position themselves before its hits the market. My gut tells me to be patient, plus it's not like I'm stuck with 1080p. Should be good. Fun times a head.
SJX
Veteran
Best? Are you talking consumer cards? Axsm and srmaster are much better and no comparision for example. SxS probably too.
Not very hard to be more rugged than SD. Probably the worst card format.
Nick Royer
Well-known member
That's exactly my position - and you're spot on, my clients wouldn't tell the difference by me using the 7Q. The main reason I wanted the 7Q (and may still do) is to get compressed 4K for crop options in the edit. Now if I can get all the features of the FS700 as it currently stands, WITH ADDITIONAL COMPRESSED 4K INTERNAL RECORDING, then BOOM, i'm in. Much easier to handle for corporate shoots on my own (as most of my work is) than a FS700/7Q combo. However if the new camera has 4k but with less features than the FS700 (maybe no super slow mo) then that may be a dilemma, I'll just have to wait and see.
nyvz
Veteran
https://twitter.com/CineAltaNews/status/509076553314353153
Interesting that Sony says the announcement also brings news for the F5/F55. Seems like they expect all these cameras to still live together in the same ecosystem. I wonder what that means for the differentiation of these products. They already all seem so close together in functionality that another middle or lower product might be hard to introduce and differentiate. Perhaps they add 4k to the F5 officially, drop price of he F55 and the difference in this new camera will be a lack of RAW?
Given the FS700+7Q holds its own against F5/F55 especially with 4k prores coming, this new camera may not do much to displace a less expensive fs700. More likely it will give the ~$10k camera market another 4k option that is a bit more ready-to-shoot than the fs700+7q.
Interesting that Sony says the announcement also brings news for the F5/F55. Seems like they expect all these cameras to still live together in the same ecosystem. I wonder what that means for the differentiation of these products. They already all seem so close together in functionality that another middle or lower product might be hard to introduce and differentiate. Perhaps they add 4k to the F5 officially, drop price of he F55 and the difference in this new camera will be a lack of RAW?
Given the FS700+7Q holds its own against F5/F55 especially with 4k prores coming, this new camera may not do much to displace a less expensive fs700. More likely it will give the ~$10k camera market another 4k option that is a bit more ready-to-shoot than the fs700+7q.
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http://philipbloom.net/2014/09/08/ibc/
So did you guys read this? According to Philip Bloom, it's going to be called the F7. Really weird name as it's a cheap, plastic build; yet the name implies that it's going to sit above the F5 (which has a nice professional build quality).
PB says it's to be priced around $8K. So I wonder if the FS700 is now going to get a big price drop and take the spot of the FS100, and the F7 will be in the middle, then the F5? The names are just so confusing.
In any case, I can't get a new camera till 2015 since I'm buying some new glass in a few weeks. I guess that will last way longer than the F8 which will probably come out next year Man.... cameras are becoming like toilet paper. So quick to change and disposable. It's kind of awesome, but makes you broke.
So did you guys read this? According to Philip Bloom, it's going to be called the F7. Really weird name as it's a cheap, plastic build; yet the name implies that it's going to sit above the F5 (which has a nice professional build quality).
PB says it's to be priced around $8K. So I wonder if the FS700 is now going to get a big price drop and take the spot of the FS100, and the F7 will be in the middle, then the F5? The names are just so confusing.
In any case, I can't get a new camera till 2015 since I'm buying some new glass in a few weeks. I guess that will last way longer than the F8 which will probably come out next year
Man.... cameras are becoming like toilet paper. So quick to change and disposable. It's kind of awesome, but makes you broke.
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Yes, this is a bad thing for us :/ I'm thinking that maybe sticking just to dslr's is not that bad thing. Just change them once a year and you're good to go. They're getting better and shooting with them will be even more streamlined.