E-mount FS700II 4K camcorder?

morgan_moore said:
Id stick with your raw 4k AF camera!

Seems like a big risk unless the Lexy and Cookes have AF. Proper AF focus tickle will change the game.

S
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AF is not how I work. For drama, commercials, music videos you don't need AF. Last 3 out of 4 jobs I had a focus puller - generally more reliable than AF and, to be honest, I can't really think of a time I've ever used AF. Although I believe that a few of the cine companies are looking into developing AF systems for manual lenses, with touch screen selection of subject. I suspect it will be some variant of phase detect AF.
 
morgan_moore said:
You think so? Seems too heavy and such a mission to shoot with, what about 'low' ISO - I think Alexa will go the way of the F35.. (and R1) nice image but too cumbersome and no AF and wont go on a cheap gimbal.

In stills $20k Phase backs used to be 'standard' with serious people but the D800, and even 5d2 really ended that era.
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It's the only camera that has properly maintained it's market value. All cameras will eventually go the way of the F35, but it's how they fall from grace that counts. The Alexa remains the Rolls Royce of digital camera productions, and unlike the F35, it's not a Sony! (We have seen how the latter is willing to abandon it's camera's).
 
yoclay said:
Agreed. But even a used Alexa EV package (camera + accessories) at around $40K would pay for itself and beyond in 2 years. In fact Alexa owners are the only ones I know who actually make it out of the red these days with their camera packages. I doubt that is the case with RED cameras unfortunately.

Lenses on the other hand are a much longer term wiser investment in my opinion actually.
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Maybe. Maybe not. It depends a lot on what market you're working in. I can definitely see that, were I to buy an Alexa, I would be able to pick up a hell of a lot of work simply by saying "I've got an Alexa". Sadly the same cannot be said were I to say "I've got a set of Cooke Primes" (odds are many a client would turn round and say 'We were looking to use Canon lenses'), although the Cookes would last a hell of a lot longer than the camera!

At the end of the day a 4K Alexa will be what the Reds were when they first came out: Every producer's number one pick, mostly because of the name - although I'm sure it will help that it will inevitably look better than everything else...
 
alohype said:
It looks like they've greatly improved ergonomics.

NOT!
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My first thought was that it seemed very much as if ergonomics HAD been improved - at least for handheld usage?

It looks to have the v/f to the side, and adjustable, so the bulk of the camera can go more to the side of the head, even rest on the shoulder. Sort of an EX3 to the EX1 of the FS700!?

If I had anything negative to say about it, it may just be a concern that it will fall between stools - too expensive to be an "enthusiasts" camera, not good enough to be considered "true" pro. That said, it does look to offer a lot for the money - so maybe my fall between stools is another mans sweet spot......?

I strongly doubt it will have the F55 sensor - far more likely that in the F5, surely?
 
Colinelves said:
At the end of the day a 4K Alexa will be what the Reds were when they first came out: Every producer's number one pick, mostly because of the name
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It seems clear to me that the future value of todays high end cameras will follow the curve of a 2005 high end computer or edit suite or $80k SD beta cam or Phase Digiback. The curve ends at just about nil, but there may be rental profit on that downslide.

What is it with Canon (and any other AF) lenses? They have a good reputation but AFAIK they are total turkeys to make films with?

Anyway lookin forward to more info on this cam :)

S
 
Man, i just bought the Odyssey 7Q and FS700. I really do hope that convergent has a 4k option available (Pro-Res) soon.
 
Well, better ergonomics or not. Most of the time i shoot with a monitor, and guess what, my 4K recorder is a monitor. Good job CD.

IQ can be improved in the slow motion, and XAVC can make it easier with workflow. If the camera also exports RAW from the SDI and CD picks it up delivering FS800 support 4K2HD i might swap my FS700. But right now and i think for me that already own that solution, its the best for the money (the loss on sale of FS700 must be calculated into the purchase of new camera, so 12.000 dollar for FS800 + loss on FS700 = very expensive)
 
FS700's raw signal is very unique and Sony never wanna use that stuff to the new camera, that's my thoughts after i've work with them since 2012.


F5 and FS700 has same sensor, but completely different raw signal the each camera has. they will keep genuine Sony raw from F5,55, and 65, but not FS700's tricky one. and yes they wanna push their own XAVC codec too.


i'm pretty sure that FS700 has nice number for sales these years but it doesn't mean Sony want to keep it. FS700 is done deal, period.


this leaked one is not related with NXCAM division so i really can't tell what's gonna happen but i know the source (chinese) has not enough knowledge about Sony products, they put "FS700 ll" because it has E mount, that's it.


i'm 100% positive we can get real announcement about the new 4K camera from them at IBC. we also will get kinda surprising stuff from the other manufacturer too so mark the calendar, September 12th.
 
It looks to me to be a 700 replacement - I guess without raw (to protect the 5/55) - It looks 'Nxcam' to me because it looks to be cheap plastic.

I expect FS700 frame-rates, compressed onboard only (up to 4k and maybe only 2k above 60FPS) and deletion of the 700, whose raw will be a historical quirk and a price to match the C300 or pop between the C300 and FS700.

I also expect a bit of a lack of connectivity (genlock in, sdi out(?)) another move to protect 'pro' 5/55

But that is all a total guess :)



 
Until now - XDCAM 4k was only used for the new 4k PXW Z100. It features XAVC in 4k and 4:2:2 up to 600 Mb/s (60f/s)
and XAVC in HD and 4:2:2 up to 223 Mb/s (60f/s)

The question now is: Does XDCAM mean, that the camera has a small sensor?
I think no - XDCAM means the camera is part of the XDCAM family featuring the above codec variations.

Does it mean it has RAW? I don't think so.

Does it have E-Mount? I think yes, because you can see the lens, which is the SEL18-200PZ powerzoom lens from Sony.

Is it the FS700 successor? I don't know as the concept seems totally new. It has a form factor like the PMW-300 but seems to be bigger, much bigger.
Just look how small the lens seems compared to the size of the camera. This lens on the FS700 looks totally different!
It will be a camera which is made for ENG-like work but has a big sensor.


Have a lot of us been waiting for this? YESSS!

But: No SD-Card anymore. The high bitrates (that we all want) need faster cards: XQD.
It will be more expensive - but we can't have it all. It's cheaper than the ProGrade SxS Cards from the F5/55.

Will the old NP-F btteries fit? I don't think so. A lot of new cameras want more than 7,2V and Sony already
has the BP-U batterie system. And they want to sell them...

It won't be meant for drama, advertising and other big budget work. So it won't need RAW or more than HD-SDI.
I'm happy they put the nice NDs from the F5/55.

The price? I think it will compete against C300 - which means around 10.000$... :(
 
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By the looks of it and my guess half a year ago I'd say the price will be right between the current FS700 and F5. But I don't think Sony will stop with just one camera. They have another one in the pipe, lower end version, with a similar price as the FS100. Both with 4k internal but the lower end version with less features and S&Q rates.
 
If the AX1/Z100 is any indication, I'd guess well see two models of this - one at $8-10k to replace the FS700 and one at $5-7k to replace the FS100. Differences will be SDI/Timecode/Genlock, Slow & Quick motion, and XAVC vs XAVC-S (4:2:2 Intraframe vs 4:2:0 Interframe). The higher model will be branded XDCAM while the lower model will not.

BTW, though a bit pricy, XQD cards are in my opinion the best card design on the market today - much more rugged than SD and more refined than CF.
 
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To be honest, I'm perfectly happy with my FS700 and 7Q. Raw 4k, Super Slow Mo and Prores 4k, HD. I dont need much else. Unless it is in fact the sensor of the F55 and has great DR and Colour Rendition I wouldn't really care what else it has, because I dont see it doing much the FS700 does, it already does so much thanks to CD.
 
vcfilms said:
To be honest, I'm perfectly happy with my FS700 and 7Q. Raw 4k, Super Slow Mo and Prores 4k, HD. I dont need much else. Unless it is in fact the sensor of the F55 and has great DR and Colour Rendition I wouldn't really care what else it has, because I dont see it doing much the FS700 does, it already does so much thanks to CD.
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That is completely true. The only downer of the 7q is the lack of 4k compressed - which of course you can make in the office - I would not be looking to upgrade from that system. And that is it - I feel at last a wall is being hit where cameras become basically a non issue.
 
Going from CF cards on my 5D M II, to SD cards on my FS700 was not a great transition. Lost a lot of SD cards, Never lost CF cards. CF was just big enough to make it hard to lose.

As long as XQD is about the same size as CF, I'll welcome the change.
 
In March of this year I guess at these specs. Interesting to see how many I nailed.


  • E-Mount Interchangeable Lens System, compatible with Canon EF and other lenses with simple inexpensive adapters.
  • 4K “Exmor” Super35mm Sensor with global shutter mode
  • 14 stops of dynamic range with S-log2
  • 4k Slow Motion up to 120 fps
  • Full HD Slow Motion up to 240 fps

  • XAVC S/Prores/DNxHD recording
  • 3G 10-bit 4:2:2 HD-SDI output
  • Four ND Filters: Clear; 2, 4 and 6 Stops
  • 60/50Hz switchable
  • 2 XQD slots with write speeds up to 1.2Gbit/s
 
morgan_moore said:
That is completely true. The only downer of the 7q is the lack of 4k compressed - which of course you can make in the office - I would not be looking to upgrade from that system. And that is it - I feel at last a wall is being hit where cameras become basically a non issue.
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Hopefully soon on the 7Q 4K compressed. My main concern with the new camera, which was a huge fault of the original FS700 is that Sony didn't really make the most of out of the internal codec - aliasing issues and the horrible black highlights which is still on the A7s. These image issues may be a way to protect their higher end cameras.

It really took a LOT of work on Convergent Design to really bring out the image in the FS700. It was CD that put in tons of hours to make the FS7Q image what it is, not Sony. I'm a bit afraid something like that might happen again with this new camera, as it has happened with the A7s which is almost there, but still suffers from some hideous issues (black hightlight aliasing).

So yeah, I think the FS7Q is good for a while. For me, I'm getting to the point where I can justify a F5 level camera and I'll probably just pay a bit extra and get the pro quality camera next time and always have the FS7Q as a backup / 2nd camera.

In the meantime, I'm getting new Zeiss lenses which will last way longer than any camera :)
 
Demistate said:
Going from CF cards on my 5D M II, to SD cards on my FS700 was not a great transition. Lost a lot of SD cards, Never lost CF cards. CF was just big enough to make it hard to lose.

As long as XQD is about the same size as CF, I'll welcome the change.
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wait until you have to buy them. 4K 50p XAVC Intra fills up a 300$ 64GB Card in 15 mins.
 
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