C200: CFast compatability - Cards that support VPG-130

Hi All,

Long time reader of the forum, this is my first post. I'm a Documentary Director based in Paris and working for various European Broadcasters.
As a recent C200 owner (after a very long love story with the C300 MKI) I have been actively looking for information in here to get me started into the game of RAW workflow. I thought I would jump in to contribute to this great adventure of sharing knowledge.

So this is just my two cents regarding the cards that work and match Canon's requests.

I recently purchased a couple Wise 512Go Cards and they have been working great so far. I obviously would need to do more testing along the next weeks to test many different scenarios... but as for now I can say that they can record RAW (both 25p & 50p) and are rated V130 on the card label (but not on the packaging as it must have been added later on in the marketing process). Shipping from Taiwan to Europe was very fast (4 days). You can see below snapshots of the speed I'm getting using BM Tool.

As a test I did a full recording on the card until I run out of battery (the battery was not full)... and speed performance is the same. Clip recorded for like 48 minutes and the card is not specially hot.

I'm using a Transcend card reader I had laying around and a Wise Dual SD/CFAST reader that they send me with my order (for free). Although I'm getting faster speed on the transcend (surprisingly), they both work fine.

I have been now shooting for a week and I still haven't noticed any hiccups. I will continue reporting as time goes by.

Best,

Nicos

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Hi Puredrifting,

I purchased 2 cards straight from Wise in Taiwan by contacting them instead of looking for a retailer as I had a couple questions regarding their V130 rating and their coming to IBC. I wanted to make sure they were legit in a way, and they responded in a very professional manner.

The cards costed 900 dollars each, so that would be $1,75/GB. They sent me the card reader for free as a gesture with was unexpected and very nice from them.
 
I'm not so sure VPG130 is a requirement, unless I'm missing something. I have a Transcend CFX600 which isn't the fastest card in the world and it records 4k RAW on my BMPC for 15 minutes without any dropped frames. This is twice write speed of a C200. I have yet to put it in a C200. I had it with me at cinegear but wasn't allowed to put it any cameras. I went to a local store and they're C200's are on back order. The blackmagic disk speed test of the card show's it's slower than your wise, but it checks off a lot more boxes than yours. Before I buy a C200 I want to try it just to confirm VPG130 is absolutely necessary.
2017-10-08_134528.jpg
 
Hi Stills2HDConvert,

The thing about VPG130 is simple (at least for me :). The C200 records in RAW at a bit rate of 1Gbs or 1000Mbps (it's a variable bitrate from what I understood but thats the max). That means the card must be able to write at a speed of 125 MB/s (see picture below). Whatever the max write speed is on the card, one has to be sure that it never goes below 125 MB/s. The VPG "guarantees" (assuming that it is performed by a reputable company) that the card will not go below 130 MB/s and will not drop frames, stop recording, etc.

In the end I'm sure less fast cards might work and record fine for tests, but personally I won't trust a card that is not VPG130 for a gig.

About the green boxes on the capture screen, it's just at the moment I took it. It come and goes depending when you stop the test...

I hope it made things a little clearer.

Capture d’écran 2017-10-08 à 23.23.26.jpg
 
Stills2HDConvert said:
I'm not so sure VPG130 is a requirement, unless I'm missing something. I have a Transcend CFX600 which isn't the fastest card in the world and it records 4k RAW on my BMPC for 15 minutes without any dropped frames. This is twice write speed of a C200. I have yet to put it in a C200. I had it with me at cinegear but wasn't allowed to put it any cameras. I went to a local store and they're C200's are on back order. The blackmagic disk speed test of the card show's it's slower than your wise, but it checks off a lot more boxes than yours. Before I buy a C200 I want to try it just to confirm VPG130 is absolutely necessary.
Click to expand...

It may or may not be required in a technical sense, but Canon states everywhere they can that it's all that is supported. To me "supported" is more important than if it'll technically work in most situations. I don't mess with the recording media...

https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/support/details/cameras/cinema-eos/eos-c200 (click "recording media")
"Only CFast 2.0™ with VPG-130 is supported."

And

https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/products/details/cameras/cinema-eos/eos-c200
(Click "Internal 4K RAW Recording with New Cinema RAW Light")
CFast 2.0 Cards with a VPG130 rating must be used when recording with the Cinema RAW Light format. Designed for high-end video recording, the VPG130 specification enables a sustained capture of video streams up to 130 MB/s.
 
People often mention "dropped frames". Is it possible for the Canon to actually drop frames or does it just stop recording and give a buffer overflow or some other error message? I know that Black Magic actually allows frames to be dropped and won't stop recording, but I would be surprised if Canon actually allows this to happen.
 
That's a good question and I think sometimes you just never know. I assume most of the time the camera (Canon) would just stop recording, but you hear those random stories from people who thought recording was well and good and then later found artifacts in their footage or corrupt/missing clips.

The Blackmagics are dangerous in that regard as you'll only see an icon warning you you're dropping frames, but recording doesn't stop most of the time. It has burned me before.
 
DLD said:
Angelbird's CFast 2.0 are available at Adorama for about $1.5/GB. I s'ppose if one's maxing out CFast 2.0 bit rate on URSA, ARRI or alike, then one could go for the higher end, yet still reasonably priced, cards. For Raw Light, EgoDisk seems to be fine for the time being.
Click to expand...

Just got 2 512 GB Angelbirds CFast 2.0 cards. The don't work with the Canon C200. Got buffer overrun message in 10 seconds of recording. The camera doesnt' see the cards on boot, had to reboot multiple times. Got them from Safe Harbor Computers, who now want to charge me 10% restocking fee for cards that simply don't work with the system. That's like taking out $200 out of the pocket and just throwing them into the air.

Bummer!
 
ashayafilms said:
Just got 2 512 GB Angelbirds CFast 2.0 cards. The don't work with the Canon C200.
Click to expand...

ah man, sorry to hear that. I feel like affordable CFast cards is a little like the wild, wild west right now. Thanks for trying them and for sharing your findings with us. I'm about to order my first 256GB card and I'm leaning towards the EgoDisk
 
ashayafilms said:
Just got 2 512 GB Angelbirds CFast 2.0 cards. The don't work with the Canon C200. Got buffer overrun message in 10 seconds of recording. The camera doesnt' see the cards on boot, had to reboot multiple times. Got them from Safe Harbor Computers, who now want to charge me 10% restocking fee for cards that simply don't work with the system. That's like taking out $200 out of the pocket and just throwing them into the air.

Bummer!
Click to expand...

Oi, gevalt.

First question - are the cards VPG 130 rated? If they are, then you should be able to get a full refund.

Second, is Safe Harbor a Milwaukee, WI based retailer? Wisconsin should have some consumer friendly laws.

Third, did you get them mail-order or in-store?
 
DLD said:
Oi, gevalt.

First question - are the cards VPG 130 rated? If they are, then you should be able to get a full refund.

Second, is Safe Harbor a Milwaukee, WI based retailer? Wisconsin should have some consumer friendly laws.

Third, did you get them mail-order or in-store?
Click to expand...

They are advertised at sustained write speeds 480mb/s. I have contacted Angelbird prior to ordering from Safe Harbor to make sure they would work with the C200 and was told they would. So even after Angelbird themselves told me they would work, they didn’t. Just another example to verify over and over before ordering. Also better always buy from reputable stores like B&H who have easy no restocking return policy. Saves you headache in the long run. As for Safe Harbor, I’ll keep pushing for a normal return. It’s simply not fair to make us responsible financially for products that don’t work as advertised.
 
ashayafilms said:
They are advertised at sustained write speeds 480mb/s. I have contacted Angelbird prior to ordering from Safe Harbor to make sure they would work with the C200 and was told they would. So even after Angelbird themselves told me they would work, they didn’t. Just another example to verify over and over before ordering. Also better always buy from reputable stores like B&H who have easy no restocking return policy. Saves you headache in the long run. As for Safe Harbor, I’ll keep pushing for a normal return. It’s simply not fair to make us responsible financially for products that don’t work as advertised.
Click to expand...

You could have gotten defective cards. If so, the manufacturer should be able to work with the retailer to either give you a full refund or a replacement (each is usually interested in the latter). This is likely to require a few phone calls and/or emails - it might have helped if the Angelbird assurances on their card performance were in writing, even electronically, but any specifications should do the trick as well - but, IMO, you stand a good chance to have this resolve itself in your favor. It's a hassle but you should pursue it nonetheless.
 
Just got my c200 yesterday ,and tried the BIWIN 256GB card f6308 . rated at 266MB/s write which works fine in a xc10
It does work in the c200 however not for the total capacity after 18min i got a buffer overflow warning and recording stops ,probably due to temp throttling.
files seem to play fine however didn't microscoped for dropped frames yet.
obviously this card isn't very trustworthy for use in the c200 however as a last resort for shorter takes it might be fine.
 
DLD said:
Oi, gevalt.

First question - are the cards VPG 130 rated? If they are, then you should be able to get a full refund.

Second, is Safe Harbor a Milwaukee, WI based retailer? Wisconsin should have some consumer friendly laws.

Third, did you get them mail-order or in-store?
Click to expand...



They are VPG 130 rated, advertised at 550MB/s read and 450MB/s write speeds. How would I get a full refund then?

Safe harbor is in Wilwaukee and I got them mail-order. Any advise? The company really is hiding behind their walled policy and refuse to even work with me. I have to leave the country in few days for a year, and leaving my city tomorrow.
 
chris f said:
EgoDisk doesn't have 512GB cards on the market yet, they don't come out until November. Which cards are you referring to?
Click to expand...

I have already had 512 Ego cards and returned them. They didn't work on my C200 well. They are fast, so no overflows with buffer, but the camera needs to be restarted every time to get them "seen" by the camera. Their support is excellent and had no issues with the refund. Great company, just wish their cards would work, however it could be a Canon issue itself.
 
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