Canon R5 Announced with 8k

[puredrifting]

They will work well. No comparison to the Fuijfilm and Fringer because AF isn't as good and the adapter isn't as good.

In this case, both are optimized by Canon (if choosing the Canon one).

Seamless transition although native lenses will most likely provide the best results in the most demanding situations like sports photography and extreme video movement.

True, if the AF is as good as the C500 MKII, which it should be, if not better, that would be a reason to buy it. At $3,500.00, it could be a cool spare/gimbal type camera for me.
At $4k, nah, I'd stick with my cheap Fuji. The latest firmware did improve the AF and FT quite a bit but it's still not Canon or Sony good.

 

[NorBro]

Canon's DSLRs/mirrorless' have better AF than their cinema systems.

Different departments, but just how it's always been, IMO.

 

[Guest]

Canon's DSLRs/mirrorless' have better AF than their cinema systems.

Different departments, but just how it's always been, IMO.

Their stills division has been pretty on point. 5DIII,1DX/1DC era colors, even in Neutral, were fantastic. Especially for the time. They may have wavered a little, but still maintain a high bar.

Makes me wish their C series was run by the stills division.

 

[Guest]

I'm kind of leaning towards Komodo. Global Shutter appeals to me more than IBIS.

 

[Run&Gun]

I'm kind of leaning towards Komodo. Global Shutter appeals to me more than IBIS.

I concur, doctor.

 

[yoclay]

Their stills division has been pretty on point. 5DIII,1DX/1DC era colors, even in Neutral, were fantastic. Especially for the time. They may have wavered a little, but still maintain a high bar.

Makes me wish their C series was run by the stills division.

The 5D III with the 14 bit ML RAW hack provides the truest colors I have ever seen from any camera in video mode. It's the only output where I have frequently not even needed to color correct - directly from the camera. Not even the Alexa touches it. It's "grainy", FullHD and the DR is limited, but the colors...perfect. A red is a real red (not orange) and blues have nuances which are frequently lost on other cameras (skies are blue, not cyan for instance).

 

[Guest]

The 5D III with the 14 bit ML RAW hack provides the truest colors I have ever seen from any camera in video mode. It's the only output where I have frequently not even needed to color correct - directly from the camera. Not even the Alexa touches it. It's "grainy", FullHD and the DR is limited, but the colors...perfect. A red is a real red (not orange) and blues have nuances which are frequently lost on other cameras (skies are blue, not cyan for instance).

The doctors are in the house. I concur!

Had the 1DC had the ML raw hack, i’d probably have it with me to this day!

 

[AndreeOnline]

Had the 1DC had the ML raw hack, i’d probably have it with me to this day!

Isn't the 1Dx mkIII covering an awful lot of the bases of the camera we all dreamed about back then?

I haven't jumped on the mkIII, mostly because I've had in my mind that my main stills camera should have a bit more resolution and an RF mount (planning for future). Plus, now that I have a P6K that scratches that 'work with raw and high bit depth itch', there's less frustration on that end.

But I'll be the first to say (and I've done so in the past), that the penalty for using the 1Dc/1Dx mkII's 500Mbps, intra frame jpeg compression, is very small.

 

[Guest]

Isn't the 1Dx mkIII covering an awful lot of the bases of the camera we all dreamed about back then?

I haven't jumped on the mkIII, mostly because I've had in my mind that my main stills camera should have a bit more resolution and an RF mount (planning for future). Plus, now that I have a P6K that scratches that 'work with raw and high bit depth itch', there's less frustration on that end.

But I'll be the first to say (and I've done so in the past), that the penalty for using the 1Dc/1Dx mkII's 500Mbps, intra frame jpeg compression, is very small.

Hell yeah it is! Will have to see about the DR though, before i sell the Red and jump ship. And if i didn’t already have the Red, then i’d be looking squarely at the 1DX3. As for now, i may just wait till the next iteration, and see if dslr or mirroless gets a DR bump. Otherwise, i may double down and get Red’s next sensor, whenever that is, or triple down and find a way to work in a world where the Arri 4K camera makes sense for me. Just depends on where the camera manufacturers go. I wasted a decade hoping cameras would progress faster, now i just have a good camera and not looking back. Had it not been for Covid, i’d just be shooting, instead of speculating about the C3003.

And totally agree with you about the 1DC mjpeg. Looked great! I’ve had time to go through old hard drives and do some organizing, and happened across old family videos from 2012-2013 that look absolutely gorgeous and like they were shot yesterday. Not used to seeing old home videos with such clarity and wonderful colour. Those are the reasons for me to want a good camera. Jobs rarely need or care about having anything better than the norm, but being able to capture a few beautiful moments of family, that is when having a great camera is important to me.

Good to see you around dvxuser, friend!

 

[Tamerlin]

I'm kind of leaning towards Komodo. Global Shutter appeals to me more than IBIS.

Especially if the dynamic range and color rendition are Helium like.

 

[Guest]

Especially if the dynamic range and color rendition are Helium like.

Yeah, as much as we all love Arri, the shows shot on Helium have looked fantastic.

Also, the show “Young Pope” or something, they use the dual exposure mode to hold window detail. I feel that is genius way to utilize that feature. It isn’t going to have the possibility of motion artifcats the same way, yet it is precisely one of the type of situations extended dynamic range is something you’d wish you had. Shot by Luca Bigazzi and his crew.

 

[Guest]

Isn't the 1Dx mkIII covering an awful lot of the bases of the camera we all dreamed about back then?

I haven't jumped on the mkIII, mostly because I've had in my mind that my main stills camera should have a bit more resolution and an RF mount (planning for future). Plus, now that I have a P6K that scratches that 'work with raw and high bit depth itch', there's less frustration on that end..

Re-reading your post, i thought, yes, i don’t actually like hybrid cameras. Stills are stills and motion is motion. Not in a strict sense, but in a design philosophy sense. Because obviously being able to pull stills from a 6K raw video clip is no issue.

I mention quite often how much i like the ergos of 1D style flagship dslrs. They are fantastic. What i don’t like, is trying to get video via a camera with menus and controls design for stills first. Or a body that has ergonomic accents for stills, that video doesn’t need.

Because video and stills use very similar setups, there seems to be confusion about design these days.

I’d say, the stills world has been doing well. They make good cameras that have video options.

The video world has done so poorly, that videographers were prefering stills cameras with video features over dedicated video cameras.

We are still not out of the weeds yet. There have been improvements this year. I think if the S1H goes deeper into being a video camera first and a stills camera second, it would be a unique camera. Likely panasonic will not do the right thing. They keep on running with confusing niche products that they never fully commit to. At least for the next decade, as that seems about as nimble as these companies are.

Maybe their organic sensor in another bread box camera will reinvigorate them. We’ll see.


But to reiterate, stills should be designed as stills, and video should be designed as video. It is a pity that no one is designing true video cameras in the DSLR form. Dslr form is not inherently stills, it is inherently human. Make a hand held tool fit in the hand with controls within easy reach of fingers.... simple.

“But the market...” poo poo the market.


Black magic made the silliest design choices of all. The BM pocket 6K. Ok, generally great and nice for the price, but where did they put the HDMI i/o? Yep, on the operator side. They basically rehashed a stills camera and put raw video in it. So very really truly dumb. Idiotic. Stupid. Waste of space. Sit in the museum of s*%t designs. Ok, i am exagerating, but to get a point across, why does video first have to mean: bread box? Why can’t a video camera be small and sculpted and have i/o connector that give us good cable management options?

We can talk cabal, but i don’t think that is it, i think it is just outdated thinking that has a predefined idea of what a video camera is. People get stuck in their ways.

I bought into the 1DC because i wanted a small scultped video camera, not because i wanted a stills camera that shot video. In that sense, the 1DC and the 1DXiii suck. They suck in terms of being a video camera first. No video shooter wants micro hdmi jutting out the operator side: NO ONE!!!

So, checking a few boxes on a specs sheet is meaningless if the design is not video first.

 

[yoclay]

Black magic made the silliest design choices of all. The BM pocket 6K. Ok, generally great and nice for the price, but where did they put the HDMI i/o? Yep, on the operator side. They basically rehashed a stills camera and put raw video in it. So very really truly dumb. Idiotic. Stupid. Waste of space. Sit in the museum of s*%t designs. Ok, i am exagerating, but to get a point across, why does video first have to mean: bread box? Why can’t a video camera be small and sculpted and have i/o connector that give us good cable management options?

We can talk cabal, but i don’t think that is it, i think it is just outdated thinking that has a predefined idea of what a video camera is. People get stuck in their ways.

I bought into the 1DC because i wanted a small scultped video camera, not because i wanted a stills camera that shot video. In that sense, the 1DC and the 1DXiii suck. They suck in terms of being a video camera first. No video shooter wants micro hdmi jutting out the operator side: NO ONE!!!

They have been doing that forever. I pointed that out with their very first camera. And they are still doing it.
I said, hey if I try to put that on my shoulder...guess what ? I have a cable sticking in my ear.

How long has it been ? 10 years ?

Their thinking is, no one wants to grip the camera with their right hand and have a cable sticking out, blocking them from doing it.

Has anyone come out with an innovative placement, besides left or right ? No. The best you can hope for is a sturdy lockport right angle type adapter with full HDMI connector.

 

[AndreeOnline]

Make a hand held tool fit in the hand with controls within easy reach of fingers.... simple.

Yes, I agree. I think to me, the experience of using the camera system is more important than absolute quality.

I understand what you say about the P6K, but I don't find it as bad as you describe (I realise you are salting your post a bit). I guess it comes down how you like to "kit" or use the camera.

My preferred way of shooting is pretty 'intimate'—for lack of a better word. With the DSLR I liked holding the camera up to my face. I like the connection I get with what I'm shooting by immersing myself "through the viewfinder" and blocking everything else out. Often it was actually a loupe like the LCDVF and not the actual viewfinder.

Once I got hold of the LCDVF for the P6K, the loupe substantially changed that camera for the better for me. I prefer just having the camera and the loupe and set it up to my face with a monopod. Lenses adapted to 82mm ND (fixed stops). My current gripes now are more weather sealing and that some of the button presses are too shallow and not distinct/tactile enough.

What I'm talking about here are personal projects and image capture therapy. More formal shooting would be something else obviously.

Good to see you around dvxuser, friend!

Cheers, James! Yes, since a while back when one or two threads went pretty sour for reasons I couldn't accept, I decided to significantly reduce the time I invest here. These boards are still part of the daily routine, but the feeling from a few years back is pretty much gone.

Take care and enjoy the light!

 

[Guest]

Yes, I agree. I think to me, the experience of using the camera system is more important than absolute quality.

I understand what you say about the P6K, but I don't find it as bad as you describe (I realise you are salting your post a bit). I guess it comes down how you like to "kit" or use the camera.

My preferred way of shooting is pretty 'intimate'—for lack of a better word. With the DSLR I liked holding the camera up to my face. I like the connection I get with what I'm shooting by immersing myself "through the viewfinder" and blocking everything else out. Often it was actually a loupe like the LCDVF and not the actual viewfinder.

Once I got hold of the LCDVF for the P6K, the loupe substantially changed that camera for the better for me. I prefer just having the camera and the loupe and set it up to my face with a monopod. Lenses adapted to 82mm ND (fixed stops). My current gripes now are more weather sealing and that some of the button presses are too shallow and not distinct/tactile enough.

What I'm talking about here are personal projects and image capture therapy. More formal shooting would be something else obviously.




Cheers, James! Yes, since a while back when one or two threads went pretty sour for reasons I couldn't accept, I decided to significantly reduce the time I invest here. These boards are still part of the daily routine, but the feeling from a few years back is pretty much gone.

Take care and enjoy the light!

Well, i always liked your strong opinions yet also the ability to be aware. You always struck a good balance and brought valuable experience to the table.

 

[DLD]

The 1 DC/XIII shape/form probably has more to do with the department that developed it (vs. C100/200/300/500) but Canon's shapes long differed from their competitors. For the owners, hybrids fall into a "neither fish nor fowl" category (and, as PureDrifting noted, they work on gimbals and sliders well) but R5 will probably check enough boxes to please many.

But in terms of the overall Canon lineup, C200 at $5,500 is now the entry level product. It was a hot buy 2 1/2 years ago at $7,500 and seems like a great deal still, given the declining price of the CFast2.0 cards. And C100 is MIA and its return looks to be a long shot.

 

[Guest]

The 1 DC/XIII shape/form probably has more to do with the department that developed it.

I disagree.

Or rather, yes and no.

Yes, the dslr shape is the result of logical design choices made on evolving from preestablished tools

No, the design is not inherently fo stills photography.


Look at the design of an Xbox or Playstation controller, they are not unlike a sculpted modern dslr. This is because both tools were made to be operated in human hands.

The idea that a video camera should be a box, is only because until recently motion capture was a bit more complicated and the size of the tool was too big for the hands alone.

Look at stills photography. How long was it a giant box on a tripod? Should stills photography stayed a giant box? The short answer is no.

Video cameras have become very small. The S1H, R5, BM pockets, Zcam, Komodo, 1DX3, are all potentially very capable as video cameras and all of them are handholdable.... but none of them are both ergonomically sculpted and designed for video. There is no teason not to be other than the market still sees the general shapes as having meaning. Oh, that shape is for stills, or hybrid, and THAT shape is for video.

Any time i ask other shooters why they prefer the box, they talk about modularity, but i have no idea why a small dslr is not also considered modular. They can very easily be rigged up, just like a box.

Currently the main block on dslr bodies as video cameras, is the placement of audio and video i/o ports. Change that, and things get more interesting. Build an ergonomically sculpted camera from the ground up.

Panasonic likely built the S1H thinking they gave the video market everything we asked for... they left the ports on the operator side. They can get away with saying the GH and S1 are hybrids, but ok, where is the video version? Ok, keep making hybrids, but also make a video camera.


Currently, the size of the average video camera is close to a Red. Too big for handheld and too small for shoulder without rigging. Now that video cameras are small, why are companies so loyal to the idea that video cameras can’t be small and ergonomic? I don’t see stills shooter shooting on small boxes with a black cloth to hide under just because that’s “what a stills camera is”.

Dslr sculpted grips and viewfinder are not inherently a “stills” design, it is inherently a human.

What is laughable is people saying the design is not preferable, but the only thing getting in the way is the the hdmi port sticking out the side.... yet they keep putting the hdmi port on that side.

They do all this amazing engineering and then completely poo poo up every year with really obviously simple mistakes.

 

[Bassman2003]

Hybrids are all about price. The video market gets a bad rap from the manufacturers. It is too small for volume and too expensive for anything below mid-level professional. And very picky. I totally agree that BM could have designed the 6k from a video perspective instead of a still camera re-hash. Why? I have no idea other than it was somehow cheaper to get some of the parts in a stills type approach?

I love shooting handheld with my PX270 tradition video camera. Like Andree, you can tune out so much when you have the viewfinder up to your face. I would love to see a fixed lens f2.8 s35 type design. The Fs5 is pretty close and very useful in this configuration. But a lot of us go for the hybrids because the image quality has come up enough that the price can not be denied. Add IBIS and a lot of the hand held ills of the DSLR form factor go away or at least get diminished. I think we are stuck with the stills form factor. The S1H & R5 will cement this for quite some time.

 

[Guest]

Right, but how difficult is it for a manufacturer to re-route the hdmi internally? Not even change the internal boards or anything, just run a cable internally to re-patch the hdmi to a better place? And then they could charge us a grand or two extra.


They keep doing undeniably amazing things, like here’s 8K raw at 60fps!!! But then that damned HDMI is always there. Seriously idiot savant behavior. Like they can play piano masterfully, but forget to tie their shoes or wipe their face.

 

[Tom Roper]

Plus, now that I have a P6K that scratches that 'work with raw and high bit depth itch', there's less frustration on that end.

For me it does more than that. I was a lot closer to unloading a bunch of great EF mount "L" lenses than to investing in RF. The RF system future proofs against previous disappointing Canon mirrored bodies. The P6K extends the service life of EF and EF-S lenses and adds useful frame rates, resolution, latitude, and features.