scorsesefan
Veteran
A shame. I pass their Melville building all the time and have used the service center in NJ... https://fstoppers.com/business/do-c...ter-closure-signal-retreat-photography-354140
C100: Canon layoffs
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puredrifting
Major Contributor
Wow, this is the first I have heard about this and I was just at Canon Burbank a couple of weeks ago for pre-NAB work. Their execs in the press have been out in interviews saying camera development will slow down and that the camera market, as a whole, is radically shifting as the recent CIPA numbers will attest to. I guess this is the
manifestation of those warnings.
It does feel like we may go through another seismic market shift over the next 2-3 years as cheap mirrorless and even phones keep chipping away at what used to be work performed with DSLRs and to an extent, digital cinema cameras.
It is undeniably happening, I related in an earlier thread how I recently met a Nat Geo photographer who has sold off all of his cameras but his iPhone and is making a very good living with just his iPhone for shooting video, stills and time lapse.
This guy has a great eye and for what he shoots, which are typically more landscapes and environments rather than 600mm shots of wildlife, a phone is working for him as his main tool.
I'm headed out to Utah for vacation and I'm not taking the X-T3 or 80D even, it'll be iPhone 8 Plus, Moment lens and case and Crane M, adding in a Go Pro Hero 7 for driving and some hyperlapses. Even the X-T3, batteries, lenses and gimbal for is are too bulky and heavy for serious 15-20 mile per day
hiking and I may shoot some stock while I am out there but it's mainly just for fun so the iPhone will be better than the X-T3 even for traveling light with acceptable quality.
manifestation of those warnings.
It does feel like we may go through another seismic market shift over the next 2-3 years as cheap mirrorless and even phones keep chipping away at what used to be work performed with DSLRs and to an extent, digital cinema cameras.
It is undeniably happening, I related in an earlier thread how I recently met a Nat Geo photographer who has sold off all of his cameras but his iPhone and is making a very good living with just his iPhone for shooting video, stills and time lapse.
This guy has a great eye and for what he shoots, which are typically more landscapes and environments rather than 600mm shots of wildlife, a phone is working for him as his main tool.
I'm headed out to Utah for vacation and I'm not taking the X-T3 or 80D even, it'll be iPhone 8 Plus, Moment lens and case and Crane M, adding in a Go Pro Hero 7 for driving and some hyperlapses. Even the X-T3, batteries, lenses and gimbal for is are too bulky and heavy for serious 15-20 mile per day
hiking and I may shoot some stock while I am out there but it's mainly just for fun so the iPhone will be better than the X-T3 even for traveling light with acceptable quality.
This is a sign of a much larger issue- we've got to find new ways to help people to productively contribute- going so far as to challenge the basic idea of a "job".
I hiked all day (for a few days in a row) in Sedona carrying a 1DX II and A7S II (mostly stills, so no gimbal). Yeah it got pretty heavy, so see your point. I rationalized it into a great workout haha! If I want good images with high DR (raw + highlight recovery etc.)- even the iPhone X isn't quite there yet (for some shots, yes, even the 5S was pretty excellent). Cell phones will get there someday (via multi-lens/sensor computational cameras)...
For sunsets with on-phone edits (stills), yeah cell phones are pretty cool (shot & edited yesterday on iPhone-X):
iPhone 5S:
1DX II:
Grabbed from IG, so compression is heavy and hard to see a quality differences (A7S II and 1DX II look much better before compression- for internet, yeah doesn't really matter!).
I hiked all day (for a few days in a row) in Sedona carrying a 1DX II and A7S II (mostly stills, so no gimbal). Yeah it got pretty heavy, so see your point. I rationalized it into a great workout haha! If I want good images with high DR (raw + highlight recovery etc.)- even the iPhone X isn't quite there yet (for some shots, yes, even the 5S was pretty excellent). Cell phones will get there someday (via multi-lens/sensor computational cameras)...
For sunsets with on-phone edits (stills), yeah cell phones are pretty cool (shot & edited yesterday on iPhone-X):
iPhone 5S:
1DX II:
Grabbed from IG, so compression is heavy and hard to see a quality differences (A7S II and 1DX II look much better before compression- for internet, yeah doesn't really matter!).
scorsesefan
Veteran
You're a workaholic, man. Do you ever really take a holiday
?...Personally, for my workflow I don't see myself using anything other than a cinema camera for my A cam, but it's a whole new ballgame. I suppose films like "Tangerine" (shot on an Iphone) will become more the norm...
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Every product has its cycle. The digital photography made its premiere at the 1984 US political conventions, where the newspaper quality images were capable of being faxed anywhere in the world in about six minutes. Thirty five years later, there are probably more smartphones than people on the planet and pretty much anyone who owns one can instantly post a photo from anywhere in the world. Including Beverly Hills. Less than a decade ago, a 50 MPX sensor was only available in the Medium Format cameras that were priced in line with the large size SUV's with captains' seats. Now, one can shoot landscape, interiors or fruit loops at a 187 MPX resolution with S1R. A decade ago, F35 cost a handful of large size SUV's (with captains' seats!) and now one can get better resolution and low light performance on the Pocket4K for less than a price of a captains seat.
And photo/video sales that had once gone through the roof are now diving off a cliff. And the Japanese conglomerates can't keep supporting their humongous logistics tail. And then they'll be mirroring Samsung's farewell denials circa 2016. But we'll know better ... won't we?
And photo/video sales that had once gone through the roof are now diving off a cliff. And the Japanese conglomerates can't keep supporting their humongous logistics tail. And then they'll be mirroring Samsung's farewell denials circa 2016. But we'll know better ... won't we?
Computers / PC's went through a similar cycle. There's still an enthusiast community building PCs, including with clear cases, lights (lol) etc.: became an art form of sorts. Cameras will stabilize at some point- enthusiasts will keep it alive. Things wear out, break, get lost, etc. Still a long way to go with cameras- depth sensors, AI focus, AI color/image, AI deconstruction/reconstruction, "Truth" blockchain-like capture to offset fakery, beam-forming/array / AI audio (noise free dialog in noisy environments) etc. At some point it will be possible to build decent cameras from components: pick a sensor, processor, OS, apps, body/frame, power system, lens mount, lenses, etc. (as with PCs).
Bassman2003
Veteran
I am wondering how the Nat Geo guy makes money with his iPhone? Is he an influencer now?
puredrifting
Major Contributor
He sells a lot of stock, he was voted BBC Photographer of the year a year or two ago and he is paid for assignments by Nat Geo. He is never home, spends a lot of time traveling the globe and specializes in Antarctic TL work. He also leads Nat Geo photo cruises all over the world, lauging at all of the neophytes dragging along their 5lb DSLRs and 30lb bags of lenses. He does quite well for himself, not sure how much per year he is pulling in but he has a LARGE estate in Ojai, drives nice cars and is rarely home more than a week per month. He also has long term cheap timelapse cameras set up all over the place and is constantly minding those. I don't think is a social media Influencer at all, he's far too busy to deal with all of that nonsense. He's friends with Phil Schiller, which helps, and tries new phones and features for Apple. He showed me some software coming for his iPhone that is pretty cool as far as how it lets you manipulate video and the newest gen imager in the iPhone is actually half way decent in low light, unlike my iPhone 8 Plus.
Once, many a moon ago, people moved across the land on horses and across the waterways on row boats. Then, many a moon later, steam power took over on rail and water and moved goods and animals, human or otherwise, faster and further than ever before. And for a lot less too. Then, all of a sudden, the internal combustion vehicles took over and moved goods and animals, human or otherwise, a lot faster and a lot further and a lot cheaper than ever before. People still row boats and ride horses but mostly in circles and mostly for fun.
My assumption is that cameras - beginning with the smartphones - will become fully "automatic", i.e., AI dependent, but will nonetheless exceed the experienced photographer/videographer/cinematographer performance in everything but the shot framing within a decade. Around 2013, I was reading an article on some photo site about its pro shooter author seeing a tourist at a well known touristy spot (IIRC, it was the Empire State Building) with a high end camera (D800?) with everything done on automatic and the author response being, "WTF, you don't spend $3,500 on a camera and turn off the manual features". In a few years, people look at that statement like at a manual gear shifter on a sports car.
Jaime Valles
Veteran
puredrifting
Major Contributor
And as we know, 98% of Americans can't even drive a stick, which is sad and pathetic to me, I love driving a stick. But nobody cares until they rent a car in another country and realize how pathetic they are ;-)
combatentropy
Veteran
My last three cars were stick shift, and when I use a camera I make sure the automatic things are off. This is why a phone will never satisfy me as an artistic tool. It's fine for snapshots to share on Facebook, but for something "intentional," for myself or a client, I would want a mechanical, manual lens. I want these things not to move unless I tell them to: focus, iris, ISO, white balance. When I want them to, I want the interface to use my cerebellum, not my cerebrum: durable, metal, mechanical, physical, visceral, smooth, symbiotic. I suppose I want the camera equivalent of an old Ferrari, where it was a well-built, transparent connection to the car, the engine, the wheels, the road.
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What do we all really need to survive, more so, to thrive? In order, we need water, nutritious food, shelter, companionship (each other), and play. Look at the insane complexity of the "modern" world. Can we get rid if 99% of it? I think so. It's all a kind of game, and collectively, once we wake up, we can change the game, and we should for obvious reasons!
In the 70's a philosopher named Alan Watts noted that we don't need to work a "job" to survive. Civilization had already advanced far enough so that nobody has to "work". If nobody had to "work", farming and building would become sought after activities that are fun! In fact, all activities that provide value for everyone, would be performed for free, since there's no need for anyone to work, and since it's about providing value to others, would naturally be enjoyable and fun and there will even be competition to perform these activities! Once power has been returned to the people, that's what's going to happen. And it's happening right now, and each of us will join in helping to make it happen. Starting first with consciousness and awareness of the truth about everything.
(look at the cool video filter they used back then! haha)
There are deeper things going on for those who are curious and wish to dig: http://noosphere.princeton.edu/
Cameras and creating in general are part of the play.
In the 70's a philosopher named Alan Watts noted that we don't need to work a "job" to survive. Civilization had already advanced far enough so that nobody has to "work". If nobody had to "work", farming and building would become sought after activities that are fun! In fact, all activities that provide value for everyone, would be performed for free, since there's no need for anyone to work, and since it's about providing value to others, would naturally be enjoyable and fun and there will even be competition to perform these activities! Once power has been returned to the people, that's what's going to happen. And it's happening right now, and each of us will join in helping to make it happen. Starting first with consciousness and awareness of the truth about everything.
There are deeper things going on for those who are curious and wish to dig: http://noosphere.princeton.edu/
Cameras and creating in general are part of the play.
Cary Knoop
Veteran
Stills2HDConvert
Well-known member
Does Sony, Panasonic, RED, or Blackmagic even have more than 1 or 2 service centers total in the US?
RED has already restructured their product line significantly.
Things are hot at the top, and hot at the bottom of the food chain.
In 5 years it will be even more constricted.
Changing times.
Looking at all the cry babying for continuous autofocus in video cameras I think we are already there.
AI powered continuous tracking provides solutions to moving shots that are impossible with even the best AC. The best we can do manually for complex motion is to set up marks and practice practice practice until a good take is achieved. Everyone (who's looked) has seen top cinema films with blown focus- they ran out of time / money and had to use bad takes.
Having AF and manual is the solution, and there's still a ways to go with AI (computer) assisted manual focus. If camera OS's allowed apps (or were open source), we'd already have killer AI / assisted MF capabilities: it's relatively simple in the grand scheme of things. Look at all the 'impossible' things the Magic Lantern folks did with a low-powered CPU and clever use of the custom hardware APIs, 100% hacked and no documentation!
The not-so-funny thing here is that Samsung had the AI aided autofocus five years ago in NX1.Looking at all the cry babying for continuous autofocus in video cameras I think we are already there.
PS. When one is looking at prices vs. the number of units sold, I can't help but think that the supply&demand curves still exist. In other words, had cameras been priced 25%-30% lower, there'd be a lot of more units moved. And, had they not been so self-crippled ...
Bassman2003
Veteran
Thanks. I am still trying to wrap my head around how photographer of the year, working for Nat Geo, selling all of your "camera" gear and using an iPhone go together. Truly a new and confusing era.
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