Canon EOS C300 NEW pricing!!!

Status
Not open for further replies.
LiamR said:
+10000000000000000, and that is for every single camera ever released, if you're complaining about the price, the camera is not meant for you to buy.
Click to expand...
(sorry to pick you out and quote you. I don't mean to single you out. What I am about to say is directed at myself too)

Quite the contrary. No one in this thread is complaining about the Epic and Alexa, nor their respective price differences, because we know we can't afford it. Many of us CAN afford a sub $15K camera, and it is worth discussing the pros and cons of the product we intend to buy, and express both what we think it is worth, and also what would suit our needs better. This thread should not be about who is complaining and who isn't, because I have seen very little actual complaining in this thread, except from those who are complaining about complaining about complaining. (myself included) I would far rather read about someone complain about a camera, than one forum member complain about another. We are a collective, and we share our opinions to enrich each others knowledge, or to express needs.
 
Last edited:
The C300 is going to be a solid little performer, and yeah it might be outdated in a years time, by a 10bit 60P 100Mbs brother, but it will still perform. But there is still a hole in the market for a low cost high-quality-image camera in the market. The FS100 comes pretty close, but is also held back a little by codec and color space to in-camera media. Depending on next year's announcements, I may just end up getting an FS100. Because there is nothing in the $12K or less range that has a robust image, and lens options.

The way a lot of reporting and documentary is done today, is with small, low-profile, high-IQ cameras. It would be nice to have a broadcast spec doc camera (and it could moonlight as an indie film or corporate camera too, and bridge prospective customer bases) Many of the options out there are a below broadcast spec, and/or they have a week codec, strangling an otherwise stunning image.

As small as the C300 is, for doc or ENG work, it is still a little obtrusive, with it's stylized look, and tower of a mic/LCD assembly, versus a none attention getting body design. But that is off topic. Most people like a sexy camera. I don't. i hate it when a camera is noticed. Regardless, It is still an almost 100% ideal documentary camera, with only the potential $15K+ price watering it down.
 
Last edited:
cowpunk52 said:
Catfish. One of my favorite films of 2010. Granted, it was a documentary (some debate about that, I understand). But does that count?
Click to expand...

Documentaries probably don't count, but I have heard awesome things about that film from friends. I have to go watch it sometime. One that may qualify, in part, is Public Enemy with Johnny Depp where some of the video was blown out (the audio was fine though, and it wasn't highly compressed). Very odd to use digital video on a period piece.
 
Kenneth Fisher said:
I honestly think, and this is not directed at anyone in particular, that the market this camera is intended for, are not the same folks who are complaining about the price, and definitely not most of the people who frequent this board.

The C300 is made for professionals who will be either renting it or buying and paying for it after a few jobs. Perhaps that level of pro believes it should be a couple of thousand less, but it won't bother them the way it does us.

The reason so many people are upset here is that we want that wonderful film-making tool, but it still isn't in our price range. Many of us are hobbyists/enthusiasts, or shoot corporate, weddings etc. And even if we technically can afford to buy the C300, we cannot justify buying it to shoot corporate video or personal shorts.
Click to expand...

It's not about any of this. It's about the fact that they're basically selling a lager sensor XF300 for 4x's the price. If it was some new "CanonCineRAW" 100mb/s codec and also had real features like over-cranking and focus tracking... then the price would be totally fine. I'd probably say "oh well" and rent it a few times and probably start to save up for it. But, more than the camera, people are angry that Canon is dragging their feet and the tech is going to take even longer to trickle down now. If their brand new digital cinema attempt is basically a wedding video camcorder with a bigger sensor on it... what does that tell us about what a $5000 attempt might look like? A 2/3" GL2? A lot of us had hope in Canon and had invested heavily in their lenses (I'm buying Nikkors now) only to be let down by this medicore attempt. It's not about the C300... it's about the attempt.

All this announcement really said to us was:
-the DSLRs we're an accident (we wouldn't have given you this tech for this cheap if we knew they'd be used in the industry)
-and Canon care's more about dragging technology out for as long as possible, instead of advancing it.

Oh well, I'm still rooting for the 1dx. If they really did fix the moire and aliasing... that 300mb/s INTRA codec might actually be better than the XF 50mb/s... even with 4:2:2. And honestly, I wouldn't doubt the 1dx might hit 13-14 stops of DR. I wouldn't be surprised at all if it ends up having more latitude than the c300.
 
GH2user said:
people are angry that Canon is dragging their feet and the tech is going to take even longer to trickle down now.
Click to expand...

I think the only person that's angry is you.

GH2user said:
Canon care's more about dragging technology out for as long as possible, instead of advancing it.
Click to expand...

In the words of a Canon rep I spoke to years ago, after they announced the XL2 and I was inquiring about an introduction of HD cameras: "Canon has never been interested in being first to market with a new technology, only the best when we do release it." That's how they work. They take the current technology and release the best camera that services the needs of the target market today. They aren't interested in future-proofing or over-delivering. This is why they stuck with their HDV cameras for so long, and even released updated models to their HDV line when Sony and Panasonic were scrambling their solid-state technologies. Canon knew that many, many video producer's and clients still wanted the price and security of tape-based acquisition, and they served those clients with extremely well-made HDV camcorders that did quite well in the market. Heck, I lived off of an XHA1 almost exclusively for over two years shooting for that market!

I've said this and typed this so many times I feel like a broken record, but seriously, you've got to listen to me if you want to hang on to your sanity: Canon has never been and never will be the first to market with a new technology. It's not in their corporate philosophy. If you're waiting for that day, pack your bags and go home now because it isn't going to come; you're just setting yourself up for heartache.
 
Last edited:
cowpunk52 said:
you've got to listen to me if you want to hang on to your sanity: Canon has never been and never will be the first to market with a new technology. It's not in their corporate philosophy. If you're waiting for that day, pack your bags and go home now because it isn't going to come; you're just setting yourself up for heartache.
Click to expand...

...except for when they added manual control and 24p to the 5DmkII, and shattering the market with an unexpectedly well received and massive money earning product, that changed digital video as we knew it, and launched Canon as a real contender in the cinema arena.
 
James0b57 said:
...except for when they added manual control and 24p to the 5DmkII, and shattering the market with an unexpectedly well received and massive money earning product, that changed digital video as we knew it, and launched Canon as a real contender in the cinema arena.
Click to expand...

Not to split hairs here, but two things about that:

1) That update came after Panasonic had started shipping the GH1, which had full manual control as well as 720p60 - so they technically still weren't first to market with the technology.
2) The 5d Mark II did not come from the video division, which is where the C300 is coming from. I would assume the photo division is slightly more forward thinking based on their releases.
 
However, the photo and video division are communicating much more now than before, so perhaps some of that cross-contamination will result in more boundary-pushing technology in video cameras from Canon in the future - but that will take time. The C300 is the first of a family of cameras in the EOS Cinema line, and is built to service the needs of the professional industry today.
 
HHL said:
I will say however, as much as I'm NOT a fan of complaining about the price, or specs, or whatever......we should consider that "full scale revolt" has been working these days. (Netflix, Bank of America for example)
Click to expand...
But your example is 180 degrees opposite of what you meant. Because there's a massive element that is different here: ACTION. Why did Netflix reverse course? Because people complained? Of course not. They reacted because people TOOK ACTION: they cancelled in droves. They did something that mattered. They didn't sit around complaining, they actually used the power of customer choice and took action, and the end result was so significant that Netflix had no choice but to comply. And Bank of America? They were hit with a movement of people closing their accounts and moving to credit unions. Again: not just complaining, not just whining, but taking action.

So how is this different? Because I would be willing to bet that 97% of the folks complaining about the price and specs here aren't CUSTOMERS at all. They wouldn't buy a C300 because they couldn't possibly afford it. And they aren't going to be buying a Scarlet or F3 in protest either. So they are irrelevant to Canon's bottom line and are therefore powerless in this situation. I mean, seriously, what are they gonna do: boycott t3i's because they think the C300 is too expensive? Stop buying Canon lenses until Canon brings the price down? Those are the types of actions that might actually make a difference, but you would need millions and millions of customers to do it, to make any real difference. And I bet there aren't a hundred thousand people in the world who care enough about the C300 to even complain, much less take action.

So what could you do? Go find a thousand people to sign a petition that says "Dear Canon: I wanted to buy a C300 but the price was way too high, so I Instead bought an F3 (serial #xxxxxxxx) or a Scarlet X (serial number xxxxxxx). Wish I could have gone with Canon but you blew it. " Get a thousand signatures from REAL BUYERS who made real business decisions, real sales that Canon lost out on, and drop that on their doorstep and, yeah, that will have an impact. But a bunch of folks on Planet5D or Cinema5D or even here, complaining about a cam they never would have bought in the first place and who aren't in Canon's target market anyway? Pointless waste of breath that unnecessarily clutters up the forum with ugliness. My take, anyway.

I think that most of the folks angry about the C300 weren't expecting anything like the C300. They were expecting an AF100 competitor, an FS100 competitor. And that's not what the C300 is. And even though I tell you, I'm sure, there'll be a C100 within a year or two, people seem to want to change the C300 into something it isn't. And that won't work.

Want to use the power of the internet to send a message to Canon? Get 5,000 DSLR users to camp out on the doorstep of the new Canon Hollywood Service Center and demand that they tell you what their plan is for an AF100/FS100 competitor, and that you won't leave until you know. That's the kind of thing that might actually accomplish something usefully.

But seriously -- griping and complaining about how the C300 has "a three year old codec from a $3,000 camera" will not, I guarantee you, change anything. It just litters our discussion forum with horse apples that we all have to step around. It's pointless threadcrapping and it really should stop. Those who are displeased should focus their energies on something that has a chance of actually accomplishing something, instead of pointless complaining, y'know?

I feel like they missed the boat at 20K.
Click to expand...
That's your opinion. I feel like they didn't "miss the boat", they took an airplane to a different destination. You, and the other hundred thousand folks wanting a $5k camera, were expecting a $5k camera. They weren't interested in building one. You all wanted to go to Disneyland, they wanted to go to Aspen.

Want to make a difference? Buy AF100's and FS100's in droves, and show them what market they could have had.

If you don't buy something else, then -- they have lost nothing. At all. If you show them what they've lost, then maybe they'll rethink what their approach is.
 
Last edited:
Canon only upgraded the 5D's to 25/24p because 'Hollywood' people took love on the camera and requested them to do it. Not because people on the street and internet forums asked for it.

Again, and again and again: The C300 is for the industry, be it TV or motion pictures, not the man on the street, they have been very clear about that. Is that a big middle finger to all the people that supported the DSLR movement? Sure it is. What are you going to do about it? Complain? You'll do that no matter what. Who has time for whiners?

You can't afford it? Move on, keep your T2i. Don't like its specks? Move on, get a Red. Are you being ripped off? No, because you won't buy one. Move on. Are you going to get mad when people start buying them? You need a life.

Go on, get the Scarlet. Then let us all know what you've learned!
 
I can't help but shake my head at this notion of 4K being 'future-proof'. Clean 1080p already looks fantastic both on large TVs and projected on full-sized cinema screens - is that going to change? Will look less impressive when higher resolution projection becomes available?

No.

It will look exactly the same as it looks now - and it already looks great, so why worry?
 
Buying other brands may provoke Canon, but ALL of the established companies price tier for price manipulation. So, it wouldn't fix the issue. Consumers would have to boycott all of the major camera companies to make a difference, and that would require a lot of unity between smaller companies and individuals. It is impossible to not buy the tool necessary to your job, but a stale mate and refusal to upgrade to newer models may work. Maybe HHL could create a website to start a collective against intentional price tiering?
 
Wow, I think, just maybe, that this thread has gotten a little out of hand. While there are a lot of opinions on the C300, and its price, to think that the introduction of this one camera, at what ever price it is finally offered at, represents global corporate injustice, is, well, kind of crazy. This is ONE video camera. To take the time and effort to protest its price, at a mass movement level, in light of what else is going on in this world, is beyond me. Can we please take a deep breath, buy the cameras that meet our needs, at the price points we find appropriate, and let the market take care of its self?
 
David G. Smith said:
Wow, I think, just maybe, that this thread has gotten a little out of hand. While there are a lot of opinions on the C300, and its price, to think that the introduction of this one camera, at what ever price it is finally offered at, represents global corporate injustice, is, well, kind of crazy. This is ONE video camera. To take the time and effort to protest its price, at a mass movement level, in light of what else is going on in this world, is beyond me. Can we please take a deep breath, buy the cameras that meet our needs, at the price points we find appropriate, and let the market take care of its self?
Click to expand...

..and perspective is restored. Yes, no one is going to go out and do that. My point exactly.
 
I think we need to get a Camera Test together. Canon C300, Panasonic AF100, Sony F3, Red Scarlet-X, Red One, Red Epic-X, Arri Alexa, and Film.
 
... actually we are fast approaching a point where all cameras will be relatively the same ... and affordable.

When this point happens then it won't be about the gear, the only thing that will matter is your reel
 
When that day arrives, Davis, it will be the day Filmmaking truly will evolve as an art form... This is my humble, personal belief!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top