C500: Canon C700 Announced.

gene_can_sing said:
[...]they should have given the C700 something special like a Full Frame sensor or something to separate it from the crowd.
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Yes, like anamorphic recording.

Amira-user said:
[...]can somebody confirm that canon has decided to abandon the C500 line and just focus on the C700 going forward?
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My bet is that the C700 is a new line, while the C500 Mark II will get the 8K sensor from Canon. And maybe we'll also see an 8K 1D C Mark II with something like 2.000 Megabits per second MJPEG-Codec to C-Fast cards with a maximum of 30 frames per second.
 
Pascal_Parvex said:
.... My bet is that the C700 is a new line, while the C500 Mark II will get the 8K sensor from Canon. And maybe we'll also see an 8K 1D C Mark II with something like 2.000 Megabits per second MJPEG-Codec to C-Fast cards with a maximum of 30 frames per second.
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C700 is billed as a 'flagship" camera, so there won't be another Canon product with better specs and lower numbers. If the 8K camera comes out, it'll be C900 or something in that vein. Maybe it'll even go up to eleven (hundred).

Surf it Mike said:
Luv them or hate em this is the competition right now and what Canon I assume are hoping to replace.......similar price range with codex recorder, and EVFS etc. Not sure about the Canon codec and industry acceptance of it at this level will be ? ...
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For scripted TV and high end docs, 4K ProRes will do just fine. If it's used on features, it'll be to Codex Raw and the colorist will take it from there.

BTW, C500 was announced in April, 2012 at $30,000 and subsequently released in August of that year at $25,000. Now it's available for $7,000. I reckon C700 will have a longer staying power.
 
Barry_Green said:
...they always come out with something that maximizes last-generation tech.
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DLD said:
For scripted TV and high end docs, 4K ProRes will do just fine.
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I think Canon are not as dumb as everyone thinks - IMHO they give what 95% of people need now, not what people think they want.

Seriously does anyone but Michael Bay need 8K (or 6K) now? We've got 2-3 generations of Cinema EOS cameras before we get to needing 8K.

The C300 MKII is excellent 2K/HD with modest 4K... probably what most people need to actually deliver now.

Probably the same with the C700, I don't know because it's outside my price range but I suspect it has everything a high end shooter who has a high budget will currently need, plus a few goodies like DPAF and integration with the Canon Cine Zooms.
 
Why are people comparing this camera to the Amira or the Alexa Mini when neither is a native 4K camera? Netflix, Amazon and others are requiring 4K origination and delivery for the content they produce, and those ARRI cameras are specifically deemed not acceptable unless given a special waiver. The C700 is a 4K camera, so it is a different beast. Compare it to the VariCamLT and the F55, but don't confuse markets. It may not make a difference for the work you do, but it certainly effects others.
 
Agree with Mitch.
A bit of a mystery why Arri aren't on the 4k bandwagon given current deliverables for Streaming Networks until then maybe that's where this camera can play.

Interesting to see where & how it goes from here .
 
Mitch Gross said:
Why are people comparing this camera to the Amira or the Alexa Mini when neither is a native 4K camera? Netflix, Amazon and others are requiring 4K origination and delivery for the content they produce, and those ARRI cameras are specifically deemed not acceptable unless given a special waiver. The C700 is a 4K camera, so it is a different beast. Compare it to the VariCamLT and the F55, but don't confuse markets. It may not make a difference for the work you do, but it certainly effects others.
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It's interesting how critical people are of this camera for 'lacking anything new/unique.' One of the main selling points of the Amira was that it had 'Alexa colour' and ProRes. The Amira didn't quite have the ridiculous features that some of the RED cameras had, but it has a decent build and the look. The C700 seems like it bring a lot of the table, in terms of being reliably providing the same core tenants (ProRes/Colour) that make the Amira desirable, but adding in better lowlight capability and a 4K sensor. Canon's colour in particular seems to be the only other company that's considered to be in the same category as Arri, and it's something that is constantly harped on as a really big deal for most DPs.

As for high speed, it's not quite as accessible as the RED highspeed, but I also think that everyone ignores how much the compression that Sony/RED use to get higher frame rates degrades the image. In terms of dynamic range, I expect it to be in the RED range still, but it'd be great if they managed to get into Varicam territory.

I do have doubts about the C700s ability to penetrate the cinema market, however. Here in Vancouver it's completely saturated with REDs and Alexas, the REDs going for extremely cheap most of the time and the vast majority of them having 6k sensors. Maybe the camera will make a bigger impact in Asia, but it'll be a tough slog in such a market. How is the Varicam LT doing? Is it making up for the relative lack of popularity for the bigger model?
 
There is more hate for Canon in the net than it actually deserves. Too often in these boards I read how bad is the ergonomics of the C series cameras. It is a pain to mount on the shoulder etc. When Canon brings in a shoulder mount form factor it is hated.

True 4K to CFast 2.0 cards, ProRes and high frame rates fills all the gaps. Many clients demand ProRes and this camera will help in reducing the time taken to convert to ProRes.

I am trying to visualise a scenario of the body with just a Odyssey like monitor (without the costly viewfinder to start with) and DPAF and canon lenses for projects. When needed to shoot for high end feature films demanding use of Ultra Primes etc, it can be shifted to PL or GS PL and add the Codex recorder depending on how lucrative the project is. Trying to see the minimum amount needed to get a working package.

B&H says the price is $28,000 usd instead of $35000 USD. When C300 Mark II was launched it was announced as 20K but initially sold at 16K. So I think B&H may be right. Or may be it can come down by still a couple of grands.

PS: Anybody knows the exact dimensions and weight? I have asked my local canon contacts for details, but if anyone knows here then it would be great.
 
do you intend to get the C700 when its released? if you do and want to sell your C300 mii let me know ;) apparently the weight of the body alone is about 8 pounds, so its under 4kg, the dimensions are 6.6 x 6.1 x 13.2"/16.7 x 15.4 x 33.6cm

anyway the thing that interest me the most is canon will eventually release their own line of anamorphic lens to go with the C700... even the sonys and varicam can't do anamorphic mode!! i just wish canon would release a firmware to enable pro res on the C300 ii... even if its a paid upgrade, i would be satisfied with 2k 4:2:2 HQ. never mind 4k...
 
Mitch Gross said:
Why are people comparing this camera to the Amira or the Alexa Mini when neither is a native 4K camera? Netflix, Amazon and others are requiring 4K origination and delivery for the content they produce, and those ARRI cameras are specifically deemed not acceptable unless given a special waiver. The C700 is a 4K camera, so it is a different beast. Compare it to the VariCamLT and the F55, but don't confuse markets. It may not make a difference for the work you do, but it certainly effects others.
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I'd wager 75% of what the C700 will shoot will end up as HD delivery, so Amira is still relevant to the debate. But yes, comparing to the F55 is probably a better fit, and when you do it looks very expensive, particularly if you only look at frame rates and other basic specs. I reckon the street price will be less though.

Ultimately, picture quality, ease of operation and workflow integration will determine how much of a success this cam will be. On balance, having slept on it... ...I think it will do OK.
 
I think it is probably an excellent camera in that price class (which I completely question in the era of the FS7 and of tech evolving with Moores law)

AF is a killer ap for doco.
Canon service is there.
Canon wont go bust.

Canon could do amazing things integrating its own lenses like digital zoom in HD.. but probably wont!

Canon could bum non canon lens users in firmware.

S
 
morgan_moore said:
I think it is probably an excellent camera in that price class (which I completely question in the era of the FS7 and of tech evolving with Moores law)

S
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I guess the thinking is that, if it betters the competition on the work flow, then it'll more than offset the initial investment.

The second part is that the competition C700 is aiming at is Alexa and Amira (not "real" 4K), F55, Red Dragon and Weapon, which are roughly in the same price range or, in case of Alexa, considerably higher.

What Sony might do in response is to make a $12,000 FS-9, taking F5 out of the lineup, that will enable auto-focus with its own G-Master series of lenses, 6K, internal compressed Raw to SSD's, etc. Given the latest Red and Canon releases, Sony is due for an update of its Cine Alta line as well.

As is ARRI (which is rumored for the NAB'2017).
 
The bottom line is a 200mm or 300mm tight head walking to camera is probably a lot simpler with this than a non AF camera.

as I see it
 
morgan_moore said:
The bottom line is a 200mm or 300mm tight head walking to camera is probably a lot simpler with this than a non AF camera.

as I see it
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The thing is that with those new, advanced electronic follow focuses you can use e-tags and do it with cinema glass.

Does anyone know if C700 support LUT's and what base ISO it is?
 
puredrifting said:
All of the higher end cameras make insanely good images in the hands of a pro. F55, Amira, Red, Varicam, Varicam LT, Alexa Mini and now this camera. It's really all going to boil down to personal preference. Personally I feel this camera is a bit expensive for what it offers, but Canon still may have a fall back position with the C500 MKII, if it exists.
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I guess that's what I find a little puzzling about Canon's strategy. They are producing a camera that will sell fewer units in an already crowded field. Sometimes high-end productions will choose Canon, sometimes they'll choose something else. At the same time there is little competition in the FS5 and FS7 range. And that's where Canon could really move a lot of units.

The one question I wonder is, when will Canon have another hit with their cameras. As far as I see the only bona-fide hit they've had was the C300/C100 Mark I's. Everything else has been too little, too late. Is there anyone on this board that wouldn't immediately buy an FS7 if it had Canon colors and EF mount? While I find this camera interesting, it does absolutely nothing for me. I've stopped buying Canon glass, because I just don't know where Canon is going anymore.
 
Canon's FS7 with canon colours, dpaf and mirorless mount. Sold!!

I think their strategy is like that:
1. Sell it to rental houses at super high prices
once rental houses are saturated
2. Drop the price substantially and sell it to smaller studios
when saturated
3. Drop the price to like half or 1/3 initial price and sell it everyone else
 
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