C500: Canon C700 Announced.

It’s going to take something significant to get us excited now, since what we already have is pretty good. C700 definitely doesn’t have that wow-factor. But it looks like a solid camera, and Canon lenses and Canon color are nice, if that’s your preference then maybe it’s an advantage. And they included so much in the camera, even a d-tap. But that’s kind of the underwhelming part of it, it’s not anything innovative.


What I don’t understand is, the market is saturated with high-end 4K cameras; and especially considering how mature the F55 has become, with all the early kinks worked out, just who is going to go through all the labor of getting rid of a mature system to start over, let alone start over with the C700? Is the C700 so great that it’s worth building up a new system, getting used to a new workflow, and dealing with early glitches? BH is already offering a new F55 with OLED EVF for $30K, or a kit with OLED EVF/prores board/catalyst prepare/and other goodies for $35K. And now the R7 and OCN adds to the already mature system. I think there’s little incentive to switch to the C700. I’m sure it’ll rent well for the first year, but what will users say about it that they don’t already say about the Reds, Sonys, and Varicams? They’re all good cameras... duh.


So is Canon targeting new buyers, then? But with used prices dropping, F55s under $20K, even new F5s with a kit for 4K/OLED EVF/Resolve at $14K, and who knows how many Reds are on the market that didn’t upgrade to dragon. Is a $30K Canon body that advantageous? Not just in price, but in IQ? I think the C700 is just another camera, not better or worse, but certainly late when the market is already so mature. There’s the potential promise of the interchangeable sensor meaning there will be future upgrades... but who will pay premiums for promises? And then what happens when competitors release a new model, as everyone is expecting? I think the C700 is what the C500 should have been. Agree with everyone else, nice camera for sure, but too little, too late.
 
Broadcast engineers secretly think the ultimate camera is the RCA TK-76. They work to make a camera lightweight & ergonomic and then create engineering challenges to restore the size and weight to match the TK-76. Cameras get smaller and they dock recorders. Recorders get smaller and they make the lenses larger. Now we've got large cameras with large (Codex) recorders and huge 4K lenses. Works for batteries too. We had heavy bricks, then lightweight lithium ion, then we're supposed to use 2 of 'em because the power draw is so high. Now we got the C700 with a nice honkin' battery on what looks like the longest lens-to-brick length in the industry. This is a breakthrough, longest lens to brick length in the industry! :grin:
 
However, Red Raven is from an established company (albeit with quirks at many levels) that has a comparable shooting package for about one third of the C700 price and, off the early comparisons, I (poisenally) actually prefer the Raven images. And, with Red Raw being a familiar territory for many a producer, that C700 10-bit ProRes may not cut the mustard either.

People bash up 5D Mark IV because of the crop factor of 1.74 in 4k. However, RED Raven with 1.87 crop factor is GREAT. Now that is touted as better than C700. Can someone educate me please regarding the logic?

RED after years of promoting RAW files was forced to include ProRes due to the demand. So how can ProRes in C700 be a retrograde step?
 
People bash up 5D Mark IV because of the crop factor of 1.74 in 4k. However, RED Raven with 1.87 crop factor is GREAT. Now that is touted as better than C700. Can someone educate me please regarding the logic?

RED after years of promoting RAW files was forced to include ProRes due to the demand. So how can ProRes in C700 be a retrograde step?

The Canon bashing is becoming farcical. Good for us guys who use Canon on a daily basis as we keep getting the work and people keep wondering why. People seem to be concerned with everything but the final image.
 
It is worth considering on the 5d that the lens mount makes a small recording area a challenge in a way that a camera system that accepts S16 lenses less so.

happy to shoot with anything!
 
People bash up 5D Mark IV because of the crop factor of 1.74 in 4k. However, RED Raven with 1.87 crop factor is GREAT. Now that is touted as better than C700. Can someone educate me please regarding the logic?

RED after years of promoting RAW files was forced to include ProRes due to the demand. So how can ProRes in C700 be a retrograde step?

The Raven gets ProRes only upto 2K, and to be honest, I really don't know why it's there and who's going to use it.

I see that it's really difficult for camera manufactures to implement ProRes (whether it's technical/licensing/business decision) at higher resolutions (especially at HFR) inside a camera (BM has somehow cracked this), so having internal 4K/24p/30p on the C700 is very nice and welcomed.

Cameras like the Scarlet-W and Varicam LT max out at 2K as well.

I don't get it, but it is what it is.

Moving forward, ANYTHING that features shooting 4K ProRes is going to be a notable accomplishment in my book.
 
People bash up 5D Mark IV because of the crop factor of 1.74 in 4k. However, RED Raven with 1.87 crop factor is GREAT. Now that is touted as better than C700. Can someone educate me please regarding the logic?
I didn't defend it. I did say that Red Raven needed more light. But what makes it defensible is that Raven costs about one third the price of C700 and, if you want to shoot Raw, it costs about one fourth the price of C700 with the Codex recorder.

The Canon bashing is becoming farcical. Good for us guys who use Canon on a daily basis as we keep getting the work and people keep wondering why. People seem to be concerned with everything but the final image.
Actually, Canon flopped in the "almost but not the ultimate high end" game so far. C500 didn't take off and C300MKII is nowhere the success of C300 MKI. ARRI and Red (OK, it's really ARRI and no one else) dominate the scripted TV production and digital features (along with F65). F55 does live sports well. Panasonic Varicam and Varicam LT are beginning to get noticed due to their ability to work at higher ISO/less lighting. In terms of markets for consumers, more competition is always better but the consumers have to have their eyes more than wide shut.
 
Can it (7q+) do 120 fps 422 Prores at 4K? with a BNC cable (NOT HDMI) If so what cameras Mitch?
 
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Actually, Canon flopped in the "almost but not the ultimate high end" game so far. C500 didn't take off and C300MKII is nowhere the success of C300 MKI. ARRI and Red (OK, it's really ARRI and no one else) dominate the scripted TV production and digital features (along with F65). F55 does live sports well. Panasonic Varicam and Varicam LT are beginning to get noticed due to their ability to work at higher ISO/less lighting. In terms of markets for consumers, more competition is always better but the consumers have to have their eyes more than wide shut.

So a camera that 'flops' or a perceived lack of 'success' makes it a bad camera? Blade Runner flopped at the box office.
FS7 is a resounding success commercially but I could care less. Given the choice of using that or the C300MKII it would always be the C300MKII for me. Great colour, reliable, non plastic feeling and so simple and quick to operate.
 
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No one whio buys this camera will give a flying fig about that sort of thing.

I disagree. A working auto focus (user controllable) could be a great tool to have available. A talented focus puller does more than technically get the image in focus. A talented focus puller makes an artistic choice when, and where to pull focus on the fly- on those type of shoots with limited or no rehearsals, or with "lively" talent. The days of talent landing on their mark- repeatedly- are softening, if not going away. Plus someone needs to build the camera, keep it organized and running all day- the domain of the 1st.

but it's all speculation until we start using the camera.

tons more hot air on my blog http://www.karlkimdp.com/canon-c700-yeah-or-nay/ if you have nothing better to do on a Sunday.
 
The Canon bashing is becoming farcical. Good for us guys who use Canon on a daily basis as we keep getting the work and people keep wondering why. People seem to be concerned with everything but the final image.

Are you really implying that those who choose different camera systems don't care about the final image? I'd say talent gets you work over others not the camera you own. I don't think I know many who have ever lost a job because they didn't own a C300II which seems to be what you are implying here.

Canon backlash is a natural result of the cult that canon has established over the last few years. Much as many bash Red as a response to the cult and 'Red or dead' attitude or the old Apple vs Android fan boi battles. There is always backlash when people seem to espouse that if you don't use camera X your work isn't as good or you don't care about image as you are implying here.

different strokes for different folks. I personally don't love Canon colours in some situations like product shots where colour accuracy is more important than good skin tones. If you shoot skin then Canon has optimized for that and that is important to you. Not everyone has the same needs or aesthetic.
 
@ Plexi head . your statement encapsulates the attitude of "fanboyism" which some Canon users (just like Red, Sony, Arri ) exhibit and which many suffered in the heyday of 5D Mk11.

It is a logo not religion...get over it.
 
So a camera that 'flops' or a perceived lack of 'success' makes it a bad camera? Bladerunner flopped at the box office...
A hardware item - as eloquently presented by Karl in his blog - is evaluated by its customer base differently than a work of art. Remnants of subjectivity do play a role but the hardware functionality is of the utmost importance. C300 MKII wasn't a bad camera. It was an overpriced camera, as perceived by the great number of its potential customers. Its full feature set was required by a smaller portion of the audience than Canon had estimated upon its release. With the subsequent price rollback to $12,000, the model functionality falls more in line with its competitors on the value basis.

PS. The original Blade Runner wasn't a flop. Its domestic gross was roughly the film's production cost. Back then, the foreign grosses weren't reported as they are now. Given the attention film has received on a number of film based as well as general information sites, it seems like a huge fan favorite globally. Additionally, with the home entertainment/ video tape market exploding in the early 1980's, the revenues on that side had to have been huge as well.
 
PS. The original Blade Runner wasn't a flop. Its domestic gross was roughly the film's production cost. Back then, the foreign grosses weren't reported as they are now. Given the attention film has received on a number of film based as well as general information sites, it seems like a huge fan favorite globally. Additionally, with the home entertainment/ video tape market exploding in the early 1980's, the revenues on that side had to have been huge as well.

Google two words - Blade Runner & Flop and see how you go.
 
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@ Plexi head . your statement encapsulates the attitude of "fanboyism" which some Canon users (just like Red, Sony, Arri ) exhibit and which many suffered in the heyday of 5D Mk11.

It is a logo not religion...get over it.

Thanks for the Zen reply surfer Mike - Make note to self: 'It is a logo not a religion' Just too funny!! I feel bad cause I'm not sure which statement caused such offence?? Last time I checked I was posting in a Canon forum. Make note to self: never praise or be positive about a Canon camera in a Canon forum. Appreciate the Monday morning chuckle though.
 
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